Sup, Gangstas of the Deathwatch. I hope I am just having a brain fart and that gaining an advanced specialty isn't as tough as it sounds. I'm having difficulty with this paragraph under "Using Advanced Specialties" on pg 99 in the RoB.

"An Advanced Specialization may be taken by a player any time (with the consent of the GM) he makes a new Rank provided he meets the requirements and experience point cost."

Buhhh?

So I can only gain an AS when I gain a new Rank? I have to save up what I need to get to the next level (4000 xp, in my case), then another prodigious amount of xp to buy the AS package at the right time, right place. That's an ass-destroyingly (pardon my Low Gothic) epic amount of xp that I have to sit on until the perfect moment.

It kinda makes the process not worth it to me. Why the hell can't I just save up the xp requirement, meet the other pre-req's, throw on my Chaplain vestments and get to blowing through orphanages tainted by Genestealers?

What do you guys think?

Keep in mind: This is not a thread on the viability of the Chaplain AS. Debate that semantic at the peril of continuing to look like an RPG forum troll, the lowest on the food chain of trolls.

There is another thread about this in the main forum. I agree the cost for some of these packages seems a lot with little gain compared to what that xp could have got you instead. So far none of my players have bothered with the advances, and I really am not impressed with the advances enough to really be concerned with that.

Well, given that the system is based on a ranked career, it makes sense that you'd gain access to the new speciality when you went up a rank, rather than suddenly just knowing it. Plus, it's the same way the different ranks were done in DH and RT, so it makes sense that DW would follow suit in that regard.

MILLANDSON said:

In DH and RT, if I'm not mistaken, did not require you to lay down a wad of xp when you took the Alternate Rank. You merely opted into a different advance scheme for a level and then were back on track.

DW took a different route. It's closer to buying a package of abilities and advancements than an alternate rank.

I don't mind the fact that I have to wait until I gain a new rank, that much. It doesn't match up very well with the 4000 xp buy ins, is my lament.

Nimon said:

Yeah, sorry. I looked for a similar thread but didn't find anything specific.

I'm looking at other options, myself. There are some cheaper options with just as much rp value.

They are expensive as hell. I think the Champion is a great payoff though, xenos bane and two signature wargear Hero talents. You can get that by rank 5.

While I did notice that wording, I just plain ignore it in my game. I only force that the advanced specialty be purchased during an appropraite amount of "down time" (e.g. not during a mission)..

Given that character "rank" generally has usually been an abstraction of how skilled a character is, and not actual "rank" within the DW or chapter organizations, I find it odd that the advanced specialties, which do represent particular positions, would be keyed to increases in character rank.

Also, as the OP points out, its highly unreasonable to expect a character to hit that new rank and have the needed xp. What happens if they hit the new rank, but don't have the xp to buy the package (say off by 100xp). Do they honestly have to wait? That just doesn't seem right, and its hardly something that would "unbalance" the game.

Although one idea to possibly entertain would be to only allow taking an advanced specialty at a new rank, but allow the player to take on an xp debt to buy it. In other words, sure, they can take the specialty, but they will have to pay it off in time, and it would have to be taken at the new rank. While this is almost like giving a player free xp in some cases, preventing them from having access to the skills/talents of the new rank is also fairly rough.

KommissarK said:

This is the likely path that my GM will take.

The problem with so much of the text needing to be errata'd in DW, it's hard to go with RAW. It has made me a bit more comfortable with house rules, though.

FistoImperialis said:

Might be refering to a thread I made concerning the steep xp pricing for advanced specialities a few weeks ago. link: javascript:void(0);/*1298377877197*/

It is a bit odd that the speciality can only be taken at 'level up'. I'd personally ignore that rule, as you suggest. As long as there's the available downtime for the player to step into the speciality, I don't see why it needs to be at the same time as some artificial 'level' is earned.

Why don't you just count the cost of the advanced specialty towards gaining a rank? So that if you're 5000 away from going up a rank, you could spend it all to get into an advanced specialty, and count as going up a rank at the same time?

This seems the most reasonable and what I shall present to my GM.

How I read that is that you need to have that experience available before you can take the specialty. Such as in the case of Chaplains were you need to have rank 4+, will 45+, fellow 40+, be a non-lib/tech/Space Wolf and have 3000 experience. This would mean that once you get the rank you need and meet the other prerequisites you still need 3000 experience to spend on it, but I do not know if that means that you could have 3000 exp. before your rank 4 and then take rank 4 along with the specialty or if that means you need to wait til you gain rank 4+ then save up the exp. get the specialty.

That would be up to you and your GM I guess.

As long as you have, at any point or in any order, all of the prerequisites for the advanced specialty; you may take it. For the chaplain specialty, you could wait until your rank 8 to take it if you like. Some specialties have rank restrictions; such as the black shield. For these, if you do not take them when they are available you never get another chance to do so.

Update: Of course a character can only purchase advanced specialties when the character gains a new rank.

Well, given that the system is based on a ranked career, it makes sense that you'd gain access to the new speciality when you went up a rank, rather than suddenly just knowing it. Plus, it's the same way the different ranks were done in DH and RT, so it makes sense that DW would follow suit in that regard.

Meh. System mechanics vs the fluff and how they don't always line up. A Marine might ascend to being a chaplain while in the Death Watch, but a Wolf becoming a wolf priest so far from home? Or a Templar upgrading to a Sword Brother or Emperors Champion not with the chapter? A Warden achieving the status of Tempest Blade without another of his chapter around? These things just don't fit the lore. Granted again this is a mechanical thing, and can be explained away by the GM in a variety of manners. That said telling a player with the way its written that they have to bank nearly a levels worth of experience in order to take a class when they qualify is pretty terrible design.

In my games I do XP debt when selected, but only 50% of each missions award is taken from it so they still have something to play with but they lose some part of the class until its paid off. Its a little mathy but it keeps the table happy and I like it. Further for things like Wolf Priest, my standard is that they have always been one.