Markovia said:

Also, the Wizard inadvertently angered Elphaba when he convinced her to use the "Grimmiere" to create quite a few things that ultimately led to the creation of such things as the flying monkeys, the flying broom, etc. for his own benefit. However, when Elphaba realized what was going on, she took the Grimmiere, the Broom, and the flying monkeys and ran. In response, the Wizard declared Elphaba a "Wicked" witch, and waited for her to either come crawling back for a pardon, or be killed. Unfortunately for him, she did neither, and he had to send in some girl, a heartless tin man, a stupid scarecrow, and a cowardly lion to defeat her. However, a bucket of water isn't enough to kill a witch! They should have AT LEAST sealed her remains in a mirror-lined box! They only realized their folly when she began attacking OZ with a renewed effort and a new ally... the Rotten King!!!

I also see the Mad Hatter's cyborg-itry as being something like a clockwork Inspector Gadget or something, by the way. What do you think?

American Mcgee is all good, but should not we try to think about the hatter from a different direction?

Split personality maybe? One personality totally mad and the other toally sane. But, other then that, they are exactly the same so it is almost impossible to tell the difference.

Markovia said:

What do you think of my idea for the Wizard?

I think the wizard was a kid from the real world who never managed to find an exit and was simply corrupted into embracing the Grimmlands. People respect him in the Grimmlands.

>>American Mcgee is all good, but should not we try to think about the hatter from a different direction?<<

If I didn't so like the concept I would have tried something different.

How about this? The Hatter runs a massive insane asylum the size of a city. The land is made up of twisting, interconnected hallways, some of which simple end with no rhyme of reason (treason, season? any other good rhymes of reason?) - while others go on forever. The doors in these halls lead to the places the pcs least want to be at that time - and they are notoriously difficult to fool.

The peoples of the land are mentally scarred peasants forced to dress in straight jackets and hospital gowns - fed a plethora of mind altering drugs whenever the Hatter gets it in his head to try and "sanitize" (you know, sanity-wize) them.

There is method behind this maddness, however. You see, the Hatter has learned a great deal about the "real world" from patients he's picked up over the years and theorizes that the key to reaching this realm is through dreams. Since the only kind of maze he can navigate is a puzzle, he has broken the minds of his people in hopes of using their unintelligable dreams to find the way out. He only has so many peasants at his disposal, however, so he must either bargain with other rulers for their insane or troubled peasants; kidnap those who stumble into the realm (these he prizes above all else); or forcefully "sanitize" some of his own people so he can drive them madd again and again in hopes of discovering the secret. (closer to his throne room - "the office" - those encoutered will have been driven madd and "cured" dozens, if not hundreds of times ... until they reach a point where neither he, or they, can keep track of which they are.

What does he intend to do if he does find the way out? Truth be told he doesn't know ... he hasn't thought that far ahead ... or so he can remember. Perhaps he'll drive everyone there madd ... or resume his expiraments in hopes of finding yet another world beyond that. Or perhaps he'll bargain the dreamway off to another ruler and move on to another expirament.

It's also possible he'll simple forget he discovered the answer and keep on searching for it.

Very cool, very fitting, very scary.

Good job.

Freaky, Jack of Tears. Totally freaky! Almost sounds like something out of Silent Hill.

What do you suppose the original heroes of the OZ books might be like (ie, Dorothy Gale, Fiyero the Scarecrow, Nick "Boq" Chopper the Tin Woodsman, and Brrr the Cowardly Lion)?

Personally, I think Fiyero (who, before he was turned into the Scarecrow, was in love with Elphaba) is torn between his love for Elphaba and his loyalty to his friends.

Also, based on another thread, I came up with something for Captain Hook:

For a while, Captain James Hook has been having a good time. He's overcome his fear of the Clockodile (though he still flies into a rage at its mere mention), he's killed many Lost Boys and fed their hands to the Clockodile (so it'd have a taste for child), he's instigated a war between the indians and the cannibals, he's trained his animals (from his circus when he was Ravello) into his crew, and he's been coming up with ways to counter the chance of faerie attacks and Peter Pan's flying. There's just one problem: He doesn't know where Peter is! As such, he's been searching the Grimm Lands high and low for Peter Pan.

I called the Crocodile the "Clockodile", because the Clockodile is now part clock, by the way.

Peter is has been dead for quite a while, I am afraid. Tinkerbell, who is currently the leader of the Lost Boys "until he comes back" keeps telling them that he is just on an advernture far away. If they lose their innocence by understanding that their ever young leader is dead, she figures, they will no longer be able to access Neverland and Hook will simply win like that. As a faerie, she cannot truly lie(Peter IS on another adventure: on the boat sailing the river styx), but she does not have to tell anyone the truth, after all.

I wonder if Captain Hook knows?

Keep in mind that the characters from the novel "Wicked" and depicted significanlty differently than those in the actual Oz books. The Wicked Witch of the West is never given a name in the original books and, really, is just one among a number of villains. The actual Oz series is quite long and only the first very small portion is captured by the movie.

As for Peter being dead, the only problem with that is in the story Peter effectively is Nevernever Land - its weather reflects his moods, the seasons change to suit his whims, when he is gone the land goes almost dormant. If Peter were to die Neverland would freeze up and fall apart.

Something to consider about Peter, as a figure in the game, is that he always wants and needs more children. If that means he has to steal into houses and make away with a family's beloved son, what does it matter to him? So, in some ways Peter is a kidnapper and NL a prison for those stolen away - forced to forget their families. Additionally, Peter himself cares for others only in how they can make his life more exciting ... so if children die in the course of his dangerous adventures, who's to care? There are always more where that came from.

Lastly, in the story it is strongly suggested that when the lost boys do grow old they are chased out of the camp or killed ... many of them may well end up joining Cpt. Hook's ranks - hunting down pan for these old wrongs.

One of the major movers and shakers in the Grimm Lands is Sinistra, the Evil Queen, who is attempting to take over what she believes is rightfully hers: The Grimm Lands. She's currently engaged in a feud with the Rotten King, though, over ownership of the Great and Awful Forest. Unlike the Rotten King, however, Sinistra's madness does not prevent her from long-term planning... Hmmm... Maybe some Real Worlders could help her take over...

Jack of Tears said:

What would the March Hare and the Dormouse be, then?

Meanwhile, the Cook has secretly eaten the Duchess, and has taken control of the Duchess's Duchy. Those who make a Book Learning check realize that while the Duchess wasn't obsessed with pepper, her Cook was! The check is decreased if the kids find the Duchess's half-eaten corpse... However, the Cook may be looking for her next meal...

francisbacon said:

Also, the Voracious Centipede (a local ally of the Rotten King and would-be warlord), is attempting to capture the Crown of Alice, as are the White King, the Red Queen, the Queen of Hearts, the Daffodil Man (another would-be warlord, this one NOT in the service of the Rotten King), a mercenary group of Chessmen called the "Endgame" (they hope to get their positions in the Red Queen's army back), a lesser Chess House (Black Chess Pieces), and even the White Rabbit's maid, an anthropomorphic cat named Mary Anne (who wants to use the Crown to escape her servitude as a spy of the Queen of Hearts)! The Crown is a powerful artifact, which Alice (who is sometimes worshipped as a deity in Wonderland), gained back when she became a Queen during her time in the Looking Glass Lands. They don't know the Crown's power, but anything associated with Alice MUST have great power. However, they ALSO don't know that the Crown can only be used by someone who is either a blood relative of Alice, or has achieved the Eighth Square in the Looking Glass Lands' perpetual game of Chess.

I meant to write...

francisbacon said:

Does anybody know what the deal is with Red Little Riding Hood in the Grimmlands? I just figured that she is actually not in the book. A pity.

She's in the original d20 version, but for whatever reason she didn't make the cut into the new book (although her artwork did, oddly enough). There are a few enemies like this; I think another thread mentions a couple of them, including the Frog Prince as well. (Again, the artwork made it through.) My guess is that they just didn't like the stories, so they left them out.

Both are not really that good: Red became a vampire and was constantly guarded by a wolf seeking to weaken her by driving everyone else off so she can't feed. She keeps her grandmother's head in her basket and if you take the basket from her she explodes into a shower of blood (but reforms later). The Frog Prince ended up not actually turning into a human at all, but a half-boy-half-frog who hates women in retaliation for the girl who mutated him this way. Both stories are a bit weak, honestly.

I really like the suggestion someone else posted on this forum that Red either was or became a werewolf. She could have either become a werewolf from Big Bad, or even better: she's always been one, and the wolf in her story was really her (multiple personalities, perhaps?). Maybe by the time the players meet her she's a bit older and wanders the forest carrying the Woodsman's Axe, but still isn't aware of her curse; that could be a plotline in and of itself.

As for the Frog Prince, taking a cue from the new Disney movie, maybe the kiss turned the princess into a frog as well (and anyone else who kisses him, including the players). Or maybe he did turn into a prince but realized that he loved life as a frog, so he left the princess and just runs around naked in a swamp all day, trying to figure out how to turn back into a frog. Either of those seems better (although more obvious) than the mutant version.

Red as a werewolf is an awesome idea. If I were Neil Gaiman I would have probably written a very dark and creepy prequal short story were her grandmother has sex with the Big Bad Wolf or something and thus curses the bloodline, but since I am not him, I will not do so.

But the idea seems oddly cool. And horribly squicky.

From what I see there a thousands of ways to "grimmify" the Oz of the books. but this one is my favorite: OZ is a dictatorship under the absolute control of Ozma, who monitors the populace via a sinister magic mirror from her tower in the Emerald city. She is served by a group of close friends, who put down dissent efficiently and quickly Everyone is immortal, and so dissenters are merely mindwiped, giving new identities, and released back into the general populace, giving them new individuals to meet and talk to. The Great desert and the Great Glass Wall prevents anyone from leaving or entering. The populace is forbidden from performing magic, except for the aristocrats, who consists mainly of Ozma's friends. Those not under Ozma's control are instead enslaved through mystical means by one of the many malevolent magic users who abound in Oz.

(this mostly stuff taken from the books, believe it or not.)

Don't know if anyone has posted these links

http://www.grimmstories.com/en/grimm_fairy-tales/list

http://www.andersenstories.com/en/andersen_fairy-tales/list

These are internet databases containing most of the stories the Brothers Grimm and Hans Christian Anderson. Don't worry these guys have been dead long enough for their works to have passed from copy righted material to the public domain.

I am currently working on the creation of a generic Werewolf "template" that we could put Little Red in, and also use for all those other werewolves we like so much.