The Rebel Faction Is Cool

By Boom Owl, in X-Wing

4 hours ago, Schanez said:

I really like Rebels as a faction, with its cross ship synergies and unique ways to deal with stress.

My only problem with it is, that other factions can usually fit their combos on one ship, making losing a piece not that impactful. For Rebels losing Dutch means less action economy. They are solid. Fun.

I'm just waiting to see what the Resistance B-Wing will be like. Because that with access to Tech like Pattern Analyser will be interesting.

Rebels are solid, with "Aces" having simple abilities and being quite straightforward. I really lack a true Ace in the faction, who could reposition after movement. The best so far is Jake at I4 and maybe Sabine at I3. But that initiative...

What follows isn't necessarily a direct reply to you. You brought up some really interesting topics though so here are some thoughts :)

Personally I tend to limit the synergy pieces I bring in lists to either just Jake or occasional experiments with Leia/Lando (though I almost always replace the i5 falcons with Han or Hera). Those are all pieces that can function as support but don't have to for a list to work. Across factions its sometimes risky to build lists that depend on a specific synergy your opponent can counter. Dutch and Lando are good example even though they can be effective in game counters to them are pretty straightforward. I think Rebels as a faction have more to offer than cross ship synergy lists. Thats part of why I have enjoyed them so much more in 2.0 than 1.0. For context I mainly play Hyperspace and also rarely bring more than 0-1 upgrades on Rebel ships even with Hera and Han so my perspective is a bit warped. This is all personal preference as well, if you like rebel teamwork lists thats cool to and they for sure are there to experiment with. Rebel Shotgun with Jan Ors is probably the most interesting of them. I also have not really experimented with Selfless much and maybe should.

Overall point though I think Rebels have a reputation as being the Teamwork faction but its something I have found to be only partially accurate. The less card based teamwork required and the more individually the pieces function the more fun I tend to have. With synergy mixed in some minor way usually. Han, Luke, Braylen, Wedge, Jake, Generic Bs/Xs/As, Norra, and Hera all can stand on their own and are the main reason I have interest in the faction. The teamwork is still required but its more about coordinating all of the ships movements on the table. Basically in game strategic teamwork rather than combo synergy teamwork if that makes sense. Still feels like the list is working together to bring down its targets but instead of getting that feel via remembering triggers between cards the team work is about how you set your dials and approach engage as a team. Worlds 2019 Final rebel list is again a great example of this.

As for the traditional high mobility high init Aces I think Han is seriously underappreciated and does that job as good or better than most pilots in the game. Han, Luke, and Wedge as it should be are the Rebel Factions Aces. With Luke and Wedge being scruffy lower case aces and Han being a true upper case Ace. Lack of access to multiple 50-60ish point high mobility aces is part of what helps differentiate Rebels from the field and part of why I think the faction is cool. I am sure we will see a high init RZ1A in the near future though so Rebel players can scratch that itch.

Edited by Boom Owl
8 hours ago, CoffeeMinion said:

It is super solid. It also seems to achieve the Herculean feat of fully integrating the Prequels with the OT

I feel like this is the strongest accomplishment of Rebels. The prequels and the first season of Clone Wars had put me off the anything prequel related. But bringing in Rex, Wolffe, Gregor, Ahsoka, and most importantly Maul with strong character writing made me not want to hate the prequels. It coaxed me into watching the seasons of Clone Wars that I hadn't seen which got better season by season.

8 hours ago, battlestarbill said:

Do you think the list you posted about from your hyperspace trial still has legs? The wedge, thane, Luke and Jake

I know I'm speaking for him, but in my opinion, yes. Wedge and Luke are a very good building block to start from. You can't ignore Wedge because he can hit like a truck, so you want to destroy him because X-Wings, while durable, can go down to focus fire. But if you have Luke in there, you can't let Luke get to the endgame. The longer he is ignored, the stronger he becomes in the end.

Thane is great as follow up shooter on those two. Thane's ability has the problem of needing damage card to exist before he shoots, but with Red 2 and Red 5 shooting first, that is likely enough to happen, so he can usually just focus and save it for defense while still causing havoc. i5 is nice, too. I can never get Jake to work for me, but I know others can, and when done well, he can almost ensure that Wedge has focus + lock for a couple of turns. Also, tossing the focus action to foils closed X-wings allows pre-movement boosting for them.

Also, all four of those pilots got cheaper in the recent update.

Edited by 5050Saint

Now you have me wanting to play this:

Rebel Aces

(54) Wedge Antilles [T-65 X-wing]
(0) Servomotor S-foils
Points: 54

(61) Luke Skywalker [T-65 X-wing]
(0) Servomotor S-foils
Points: 61

(47) Thane Kyrell [T-65 X-wing]
(0) Servomotor S-foils
Points: 47

(38) Hera Syndulla [Attack Shuttle]
Points: 38

Total points: 200

Too bad no bid for such high Inits... still looks like a blast.

Edited by LUZ_TAK
6 hours ago, Boom Owl said:

Across factions its sometimes risky to build lists that depend on a specific synergy your opponent can counter.

[...]

The less card based teamwork required and the more individually the pieces function the more fun I tend to have. With synergy mixed in some minor way usually.

Advice from Magic: The Gathering was "don't play any combo piece you wouldn't play by itself".

14 hours ago, CoffeeMinion said:

I’m not at the end yet, but it leaves me wondering why these characters didn’t end up being a bigger influence in the OT and beyond since they’re so capable. I mean they are the A-Team, right down to the bespoke ride. Only way they wouldn’t be movers and shakers on the front lines is if they end up dead or in middle management...

Again without spoilers, I'll say... you're exactly right.

And once again Hera as a starfighter pilot is criminally underserved in this game.

I realize I'm probably in the minority but I absolutely wouldn't mind seeing her as the Rebel Anakin; an expensive I6 with a powerful ability in half the faction's ships (at least A-B-X-Y-maybe U in that order).

Edited by ClassicalMoser
6 hours ago, Boom Owl said:

As for the traditional high mobility high init Aces I think Han is seriously underappreciated and does that job as good or better than most pilots in the game. Han, Luke, and Wedge as it should be are the Rebel Factions Aces. With Luke and Wedge being scruffy lower case aces and Han being a true upper case Ace. Lack of access to multiple 50-60ish point high mobility aces is part of what helps differentiate Rebels from the field and part of why I think the faction is cool. I am sure we will see a high init RZ1A in the near future though so Rebel players can scratch that itch.

I don't think I've ever more strongly agreed with anything you've said. This is exactly what I think of Rebels.

Frankly I think Han may be as much as 10 points underpriced. I've been expecting nerfs and keep seeing buffs. I imagine the devs want to see him with upgrades and they're trying to make room for them. The problem is that buffing the base chassis means taking a naked Han gets rather more appealing than less. I wouldn't mind seeing small reductions to some rebel crew and gunners ( small reductions).

I'm also certain we'll be getting at least one proper A-Wing ace in the near future and I'm very impatient for that. I need my Hera Ace fix, even if they make her I5 instead of I6 I'd be happy either way.

36 minutes ago, ClassicalMoser said:

I realize I'm probably in the minority but I absolutely wouldn't mind seeing her as the Rebel Anakin; an expensive I6 with a powerful ability in half the faction's ships (at least A-B-X-Y-maybe U in that order).

Here here. Gimme Hera in a Y, a B, an A, and an X. B and A take precedence for me.

Just realized this 3 fit... with a minimum bid too.

Luke & Han & Wedge

(79) Han Solo [Modified YT-1300 Light Freighter]
Points: 79

(61) Luke Skywalker [T-65 X-wing]
(0) Servomotor S-foils
(3) Heightened Perception
Points: 64

(54) Wedge Antilles [T-65 X-wing]
(0) Servomotor S-foils
Points: 54

Total points: 197

Luke might be better with sense or brilliant evasion. Maybe R4s on both X-wings.

Edited by LUZ_TAK
6 hours ago, LUZ_TAK said:

Just realized this 3 fit... with a minimum bid too.

Luke & Han & Wedge

(79) Han Solo [Modified YT-1300 Light Freighter]
Points: 79

(61) Luke Skywalker [T-65 X-wing]
(0) Servomotor S-foils
(3) Heightened Perception
Points: 64

(54) Wedge Antilles [T-65 X-wing]
(0) Servomotor S-foils
Points: 54

Total points: 197

Luke might be better with sense or brilliant evasion. Maybe R4s on both X-wings.

I’ve flown something similar a few times and been pretty successful with it. I built my list to 200 because why not?

Han Solo - Selfless or Ion missiles or Tac Scrambler (81)

Wedge Antilles - Predator, S-foils (56)

Luke Skywalker - Brilliant evasion, S-foils (63)

Total: 200

Selfless makes Wedge and Luke tankier, Ion missiles are great for control and Tac Scrambler is a solid upgrade too. Luke with BE is one tanky boi and a PITA to kill.

Edited by Sm00thB0r3
On 12/18/2020 at 9:43 AM, 5050Saint said:

But if you have Luke in there, you can't let Luke get to the endgame.

You highlighted the basic strategy of my latest Rebel list love.... FAT Luke. Luke in the endgame is so so good.

Fat Bois!

(61) Luke Skywalker [T-65 X-wing]
(4) R5 Astromech
(0) Servomotor S-foils
(5) Sense
(5) Hull Upgrade
Points: 75

(76) Kanan Jarrus [VCX-100 Light Freighter]
(10) Advanced Sensors
(2) Dorsal Turret
Points: 88

(32) Arvel Crynyd [RZ-1 A-wing]
(3) Intimidation
(2) Predator
Points: 37

Total points: 200

17 hours ago, Sm00thB0r3 said:

I’ve flown something similar a few times and been pretty successful with it. I built my list to 200 because why not?

Han Solo - Selfless or Ion missiles or Tac Scrambler (81)

Wedge Antilles - Predator, S-foils (56)

Luke Skywalker - Brilliant evasion, S-foils (63)

Total: 200

Selfless makes Wedge and Luke tankier, Ion missiles are great for control and Tac Scrambler is a solid upgrade too. Luke with BE is one tanky boi and a PITA to kill.

If you're looking for two points to spend on Han there, then in this list might I make a case for Jyn Erso?

The range 3 bubble is big, and it basically gives Wedge, Luke and Han the evade action.

If you thought BE Luke was tanky, wait till you try a Luke who can evade.

8 hours ago, JBFancourt said:

You highlighted the basic strategy of my latest Rebel list love.... FAT Luke. Luke in the endgame is so so good.

Fat Bois!

(61) Luke Skywalker [T-65 X-wing]
(4) R5 Astromech
(0) Servomotor S-foils
(5) Sense
(5) Hull Upgrade
Points: 75

(76) Kanan Jarrus [VCX-100 Light Freighter]
(10) Advanced Sensors
(2) Dorsal Turret
Points: 88

(32) Arvel Crynyd [RZ-1 A-wing]
(3) Intimidation
(2) Predator
Points: 37

Total points: 200

I love a good Fat Luke.

Do you think putting Kanan on a diet might get you a better third piece than Arvel? I feel like with 47 points you could really get something neat...

A fat Luke is the best kind of Luke. I’ll be taking this list to a store tournament next month;

Wedge Antilles - Predator, R5, HU, S-foils

Luke Skywalker - Stealth device, Brilliant evasion, S-foils

Norra Wexley (ARC-170) - Intimidation, Jyn Erso, R5, Tac Scrambler

Total: 200

I’ve been practicing this list a fair bit at home and it’s a really solid list. It can struggle a bit with swarms/focus fire, but Norra is such a beef tank in this configuration, Luke is sooo hard to kill and Wedge hits like a truck. It’s a great list to fly.

6 hours ago, ClassicalMoser said:

I love a good Fat Luke.

Do you think putting Kanan on a diet might get you a better third piece than Arvel? I feel like with 47 points you could really get something neat...

Adv Sen really keeps Kanan a threat. Otherwise, between bumping, obstacles, and K-turning he would only get about 2 actions a game... 🤣

Also Sense Arvel is.... wonderful. Lol. It really works well for zoning aces.

The nice thing is people just can’t ignore the other two ships. Most of the time Luke just flies right into the fray and never gets shot. Kanan with his double mod big guns goes down. But he always trades well, and Luke gets to the endgame normally untouched.

Your other option is Biggs... I’ve been pondering it... but the TL before a K-turn or a reinforce before a bump has just proved too valuable to me. 🤔

You could slim Luke down too.... hmmmm

(61) Luke Skywalker [T-65 X-wing]
(4) R5 Astromech
(0) Servomotor S-foils
Points: 65

(76) Kanan Jarrus [VCX-100 Light Freighter]
(10) Advanced Sensors
(2) Dorsal Turret
Points: 88

(47) Biggs Darklighter [T-65 X-wing]
(0) Servomotor S-foils
Points: 47

Total points: 200

Edited by JBFancourt
On 12/17/2020 at 11:46 PM, battlestarbill said:

Do you think the list you posted about from your hyperspace trial still has legs? The wedge, thane, Luke and Jake

Absolutely. That is, for me, the list I've played in 2.0 that feels the strongest. I don't think it has any really bad matchups. It has been just a little bit over for the last few update cycles, but the most recent change dropped every single ship, so there 4 spare points. Big swing, and if there was competitive X-wing these days, it would be at the top of my list of Exended tournament squads.

Double post

Edited by Biophysical

Darn triple post.

Edited by Biophysical
29 minutes ago, Biophysical said:

Absolutely. That is, for me, the list I've played in 2.0 that feels the strongest. I don't think it has any really bad matchups. It has been just a little bit over for the last few update cycles, but the most recent change dropped every single ship, so there 4 spare points. Big swing, and if there was competitive X-wing these days, it would be at the top of my list of Exended tournament squads.

I assume you just leave the 4 points for the bid, or is there other uses for those points?

5 hours ago, battlestarbill said:

I assume you just leave the 4 points for the bid, or is there other uses for those points?

The thing I'm eyeing hardest is Ion Torps on Wedge, but some upgrades on Jake or a bid are not unreasonable.

Edited by Biophysical

Ion torps on wedge seems solid. Any thoughts on thread tracers for jake?

Wouldn’t it just be better to pony up the points for plasma/proton torps? Or ATP if ur on a budget? Whats the thinking there?

2 hours ago, Gupa-nupa said:

Wouldn’t it just be better to pony up the points for plasma/proton torps? Or ATP if ur on a budget? Whats the thinking there?

For @Biophysical 's list, I suspect it's because ponying up the points means basically dropping one of the two X-wings.

But as someone else who's often putting Ion Torps on Wedge, a big reason is that Wedge often finds himself firing them with just a single mod. That, in turn, means that he ends up only hitting for 1-2 damage a depressingly large amount of the time, and when you've spent 8-13 points on the weapon that's some real despair. It's much more palatable for that to happen to a 4-point Ion Torp, and if it gets through for more and ends up ionising the target, all the better.

APT isn't as despair inducing when it whiffs, but brings with it the risk of dying before getting the chance to use it. There's always a very real chance Wedge will have to spend his lock attacking on the first turn of shooting, then end up bumped when he closes, and then die soon after.

Edited by DR4CO

Single modded wedge has a good chance to land that ion. If he does there’s a good chance to capitalize on it with the rest of the list

Edited by battlestarbill
11 hours ago, battlestarbill said:

Ion torps on wedge seems solid. Any thoughts on thread tracers for jake?

Thread tracers were part of the first list I built, but then I realized ion torps were 4 points.

I also played some test games with another squad vs Eta lists. I'm pretty sure Etas are way beyond the power curve for their points, and they're both squirrely and insanely durable with easy Force/Evade and stealth device. Wedge with Ion Torps can potentially help a lot there. With Jake he gets them double modded pretty easily, and a double modded Ion Torp from Wedge is a reasonably reliable way to knock off a stealth device. If an Ion goes through, it's even better, because it shuts off the Evade action and repositioning next turn.

The main thing is that its 4 points of flexibility, and the squad has never in its history had that.

On 12/18/2020 at 2:35 PM, Boom Owl said:

Overall point though I think Rebels have a reputation as being the Teamwork faction but its something I have found to be only partially accurate.

I really enjoy flying Leia and the two I4 B-Wings. I use Kanan Jarrus to open up Braylen's dial up. Its a very beefy list, where each ship can give itself double mods with little to no effort. Leia with Kanan is there to engage Braylen a bit more, but it works very well on her as well. She can just zoom over a debries field and still do actions.

From my reading of Rebel abilities, they strike me as the "Stressed? So what?" as well as "I rub your back you rub mine?" kind of a faction. They have the highest amount of pilots who can work around Stress or actually use it for their benefit. And have quite a lot of ships, that are quite potent support ships as a pilot ability. I am really having a blast flying them, because while they have a low floor, the ceiling is out there with the other factions. Even higher sometimes, because the faction's aces are not as mobile, so it takes quite a lot out of the player to fly someone like Wedge or Luke to their fullest potential.