Not surprising, but good to know for sure. Maybe by mid-summer we’ll be in a position to have large US events again. 🤞🏼 🤞🏼 🤞🏼
Adepticon 2021 Canceled
Yeah I hope so too....
The way things are shaping up, even if the vaccines hit this month, i doubt conventions will be back to normal, even by gencon next year..
every week people dont wear masks correctly or at all and socialize in groups is another month of this garbage. between that and nearly 100 million people who are likely gonna resist taking vaccines... its gonna be awhile.
9 hours ago, Vontoothskie said:every week people dont wear masks correctly or at all and socialize in groups is another month of this garbage. between that and nearly 100 million people who are likely gonna resist taking vaccines... its gonna be awhile.
I’m sorry, but I’m calling shenanigans on the “blame the anti-maskers”.
Where do I see the mask protesting? On social media. Do I ever see it in person, anywhere? Not at all. I cannot recall the last time I saw the bottom of someone’s face who wasn’t on a screen or my own wife, at home. We cannot “mask harder” to get us out of this.
1 hour ago, ScummyRebel said:I’m sorry, but I’m calling shenanigans on the “blame the anti-maskers”.
Where do I see the mask protesting? On social media. Do I ever see it in person, anywhere? Not at all. I cannot recall the last time I saw the bottom of someone’s face who wasn’t on a screen or my own wife, at home. We cannot “mask harder” to get us out of this.
Eh, I see a lot of people wearing them wrong, ergo, on the mouth, but not the nose. Or even worse, around their neck, although mostly those folks are aware they are not using them just then.
We also have a lot of folks very mad they cannot come into the clinic with their pet. First of all, most vet clinics in the area are operating this way, so it really should be no surprise this is how we are doing it, too. Secondly, it makes absolutely no difference in the care you pet is receiving. Lastly, I have no intention being trapped in a 6x6 room 15 times a day with a stranger and/or arguing with them that they need a mask, so "stay outside" negates that conversation immediately.
Then, there are the anti-vaxxers.
So, push-back is pretty real. Regardless, it will also take a long time to vaccinate the entire population of the world.
Sure, "mask harder" isn't the solution, but it is pretty disappointing to see TG being a major travel weekend despite the poor idea of translocating AND mixing social circles. Folks just aren't willing to make much of a sacrifice to make this thing better rather than risking making it worse.
So, basically, I'm with @Vontoothskie . 2021 is likely to be a write-off, too. It might have been no matter what, but human stupidly is pretty much guaranteeing it.
Edited by Darth Meanie2 hours ago, ScummyRebel said:Where do I see the mask protesting? On social media. Do I ever see it in person, anywhere? Not at all. I cannot recall the last time I saw the bottom of someone’s face who wasn’t on a screen or my own wife, at home. We cannot “mask harder” to get us out of this.
I am honestly grateful to you community for complying with the mask orders, but it is definitely not the same here. People not wearing masks is still commonplace in my city in spite of a massive uptick in cases in the last month. Everytime I go for groceries, I'll see people walk into a store with their mask on so nobody stops them at the door, only to take it off as soon as they're inside. People wearing their mask around their chin is even more common. There are still several businesses here that refuse to enforce the mask mandate for their employees, let alone their customers. It may not be the largest transmission method (people are still holding large gatherings and local wineries are still holding events and tastings), but it's discouraging nonetheless.
21 minutes ago, hargleblarg said:People wearing their mask around their chin is even more common.
I often think to myself, "Do these people put the condom on their scrotum, and say 'OK baby, they're locked in, good to go!'"
1 hour ago, hargleblarg said:I am honestly grateful to you community for complying with the mask orders, but it is definitely not the same here.
I guess I get really spicy on the topic because our Governor also argues the “mask harder” and blames folks for not wearing them, when it’s simply not happening in our area.
We are still having a spike in cases
1 hour ago, ScummyRebel said:I guess I get really spicy on the topic because our Governor also argues the “mask harder” and blames folks for not wearing them, when it’s simply not happening in our area.
We are still having a spike in cases
I understand why you'd be ticked off but what drives me crazy are politicians who impose masking and social distancing rules upon their constituents and then are caught violating those same rules and being caught on video doing so like the current Speaker of the House, Governor of California and the Mayor of San Jose, Ca.
Now these same politicians are imposing a month long lockdown here in California starting tomorrow at 2200 local. I just wonder how long it will be before someone videos them doing something in violation of those same orders they've put in place for everyone.
Edited by T70 Driver5 hours ago, ScummyRebel said:I’m sorry, but I’m calling shenanigans on the “blame the anti-maskers”.
Where do I see the mask protesting? On social media. Do I ever see it in person, anywhere? Not at all. I cannot recall the last time I saw the bottom of someone’s face who wasn’t on a screen or my own wife, at home. We cannot “mask harder” to get us out of this.
My big issue on the whole mask mandate bs, is several fold.
1) masks are not 'secure enough', to stop virus particles spreading through them. As the saying goes, if you can still smell someone's fart, a virus can still get in.
2) IF MASKS WERE so great, then why is it, the CDC's own study on over 3,000 folk who contracted it, showed over 84% OF THEM RELIGIOUSLY WORE masks? IF masks were so great, they'd have not gotten it.
3) IF masks were so good, then WHY HAVE so many hospital workers caught covid, when not only are they masked up, but are also wearing those face visors, gloves and the rest of their PPE???
6 hours ago, ScummyRebel said:I’m sorry, but I’m calling shenanigans on the “blame the anti-maskers”.
Where do I see the mask protesting? On social media. Do I ever see it in person, anywhere? Not at all. I cannot recall the last time I saw the bottom of someone’s face who wasn’t on a screen or my own wife, at home. We cannot “mask harder” to get us out of this.
Dont know where you live but that sure sounds like youre making that up or dont understand how masks work. where I am in PA 2/3 of people are not wearing masks, wearing a gaiter or something else that doesnt work, or not pulling the mask over their nose(aka not wearing a mask at all). Because its an airborne disease transmission from one host not wearing a mask to others is extremely likely at around 15 feet, and only drops to 6 feet with a mask. Thus every city thats allowing dining in resturaunts or bars is effectively bypassing masking, because everyone takes their mask off to eat and drink while in close proximity to others. Walmart is giving employees a clear face shield that covers their eyes and nose and calling it a mask, home depot isnt requiring masks, a major political party has made mask refusal part of its identity... its echausting to even think about.
Dealing with mask refusal has become a near daily experience for everyone I know. Its a defining part of the American experience right now.
56 minutes ago, LTuser said:My big issue on the whole mask mandate bs, is several fold.
1) masks are not 'secure enough', to stop virus particles spreading through them. As the saying goes, if you can still smell someone's fart, a virus can still get in.
2) IF MASKS WERE so great, then why is it, the CDC's own study on over 3,000 folk who contracted it, showed over 84% OF THEM RELIGIOUSLY WORE masks? IF masks were so great, they'd have not gotten it.
3) IF masks were so good, then WHY HAVE so many hospital workers caught covid, when not only are they masked up, but are also wearing those face visors, gloves and the rest of their PPE???
1. Masks don't stop the virus itself, they help to stop the respiratory droplets that carry the virus farther ( Source ). But this is why wearing masks should also be accompanied by keeping away from people. If I sneeze 10 ft from you while not wearing a mask, you're probably getting droplets on you. If I have a mask on, it's less likely. With a mask while I'm right next to you, the risk is increased.
2. I'm not familiar with the study you're referencing, got a link? My guess is, as above, behavior was a factor. I see so many people with masks below the nose, or wearing it right but still in close proximity to each other.
3. Hospital workers have vastly increased exposure.
Basically masks help reduce spread, but they don't prevent it outright. Kind of like how seatbelts help reduce the damage to you in a car wreck, but don't prevent all damage. And slowing the spread of a disease makes it vastly easier to control and treat.
And in agreement with some of the above comments, it is infuriating to see leaders push for behavior that will genuinely help reduce spread, and then not follow those same guidelines. People follow their leaders' example.
1 hour ago, LTuser said:My big issue on the whole mask mandate bs, is several fold.
1) masks are not 'secure enough', to stop virus particles spreading through them. As the saying goes, if you can still smell someone's fart, a virus can still get in.
2) IF MASKS WERE so great, then why is it, the CDC's own study on over 3,000 folk who contracted it, showed over 84% OF THEM RELIGIOUSLY WORE masks? IF masks were so great, they'd have not gotten it.
3) IF masks were so good, then WHY HAVE so many hospital workers caught covid, when not only are they masked up, but are also wearing those face visors, gloves and the rest of their PPE???
Youve been severely misinformed.
1) Masks reduce your risk of spreading airborne disease to others by around 95% IF you remain 6 feet away. They do not protect you well from others if those people are not wearing masks and have an airborne disease. Nurses wearing PPE are getting less than 6 ft away , and accidental exposures happen particularly when theyre working doubles 6 days a week trying to save covid positive patients.
2) Masks must meet certain requirements to work.
2A)They must be of material thick enough and layered enough to capture particles in your breath.
2B) They must fully cover your nose and mouth, making complete contact with your face on all sides.
2C) If you can smell someones fart in an open space, your mask is not effective, either because its the wrong material or because youre wearing it wrong. this is actually a great way to test your mask.
3) If someone removes their mask at all for any reason, the particles in their breath can transmit covid to anyone in a 15+ foot radius for several minutes, even if they put their mask back on. So every time someone in a grocery store pulls their mask down to scratch their chin, breathes, then pulls it back up? that aisle of the grocery store is a vector for a few minutes if they had an airborne disease like Covid-19. if that person walks through the store with their mask not covering their nose? 100% of the aisles they walk through are vectors.
additionally the study you cited literally drew the conclusion that everyone needed to wear masks, not that they were innefective. it also called for complete lockdown with mandatory quarantine period.
The leading cause of death in America yesterday was Covid-19. 2,800 people died of this disease yesterday, 1,100 in Illinois alone. please do your minimal patriotic duty and wear a mask when in proximity to others outside your household.
Also has no one played Halo?
The flood are a crash course in vectors
9 hours ago, ScummyRebel said:I’m sorry, but I’m calling shenanigans on the “blame the anti-maskers”.
Where do I see the mask protesting? On social media. Do I ever see it in person, anywhere? Not at all. I cannot recall the last time I saw the bottom of someone’s face who wasn’t on a screen or my own wife, at home. We cannot “mask harder” to get us out of this.
You have not been to small town America then. Every. Last. Person. not wearing a mask here.
4 hours ago, LTuser said:My big issue on the whole mask mandate bs, is several fold.
1) masks are not 'secure enough', to stop virus particles spreading through them. As the saying goes, if you can still smell someone's fart, a virus can still get in.
2) IF MASKS WERE so great, then why is it, the CDC's own study on over 3,000 folk who contracted it, showed over 84% OF THEM RELIGIOUSLY WORE masks? IF masks were so great, they'd have not gotten it.
3) IF masks were so good, then WHY HAVE so many hospital workers caught covid, when not only are they masked up, but are also wearing those face visors, gloves and the rest of their PPE???
I call BS on parachutes, too.
1} Parachutes are not "secure enough" to prevent the pull of gravity. Anyone wearing a parachute still descends just like normal.
2} If parachutes were so great, why would there be FAA accident reports about them? 100% of people jumping out of planes use them, and still there are fatalities.
3} If parachutes were so good, why would trained military personnel still get killed wearing them, even wearing FULL BODY ARMOR.
9 hours ago, Something Wicked said:2. I'm not familiar with the study you're referencing, got a link? My guess is, as above, behavior was a factor. I see so many people with masks below the nose, or wearing it right but still in close proximity to each other.
5 hours ago, LTuser said:
The first entry on wikipedia cites The Federalist as publishing false information and outright lies about Covid-19, and specifically references this article as a lie. even cursory research would immediately tell you this site hosts propoganda and conspiracy theories.
I had assumed when you referenced CDC research regarding the positive infection of 3,000 people that you were refering to the actual research published in March, not a work of fiction. Please check your sources in the future before spreading dangerous propoganda that costs lives
1 hour ago, Vontoothskie said:The first entry on wikipedia cites The Federalist as publishing false information and outright lies about Covid-19, and specifically references this article as a lie. even cursory research would immediately tell you this site hosts propoganda and conspiracy theories.
Can people please follow the advice of their high school teachers and *NOT* use Wikipedia as a source? I’ve run into this so many times in 2020, on many topics, and it’s almost exclusively because people are unwilling or unable to deal with the source material itself.
The Federalist is a mainstream publication. Telling people that it’s a fringe, loony conspiracy site indicates that you’re not familiar with it. They’re biased, yes, but openly so and don’t pretend to be otherwise. If you’ve ever used something like The Nation, Politico, Slate, Jacobin, etc. as a reference then you’re in the same boat. If you disagree these are the same in principle, then you’re not being very honest about publication biases.
Also, let’s please be honest with ourselves here. I wear a mask and can count the times I’ve socialized with people since March on one hand. I’m also a PhD scientist and appreciate that fast science is bad science, and lots of things we ‘know’ this year will turn out to be wrong. Others will be revealed as being deliberately untrue, such as the original CDC dictate not to wear or buy masks, which was intended to shore up the stockpiles we failed to maintain.
We should all endeavor to remember that lots of things we think we know aren’t nearly as settled as we imagined. For instance, the comment above where masks are understood to reduce droplets that spread the coronavirus - yes, probably, this makes intuitive sense. However, there’s a professional disagreement about what droplet size is actually problematic and causes transmission. There was also a recent experiment with the US Marines, which may be the intended reference, where testing before and during basic training found that constant universal masking with enforced compliance and mandatory distancing was unable to stop COVID transmission, which reached 2% positivity rates within 2 weeks. Can’t link on mobile, but was published in NEJM in November.
There are lots of facets of this year that won’t be understood well, or correctly, for years if ever. Please treat your fellow forum dwellers with respect. I’ll continue to wear my mask, but I have no expectation it does anything more than mitigate the situation. I’m unaware of any disease in history that was eradicated on the basis of voluntary actions, so all I can do is request that everyone stays as safe as they can until a vaccine is locally available, and then request you to take it.
Also F for Adepticon cancellation.
3 hours ago, PaulRuddSays said:Can people please follow the advice of their high school teachers and *NOT* use Wikipedia as a source? I’ve run into this so many times in 2020, on many topics, and it’s almost exclusively because people are unwilling or unable to deal with the source material itself.
The Federalist is a mainstream publication. Telling people that it’s a fringe, loony conspiracy site indicates that you’re not familiar with it. They’re biased, yes, but openly so and don’t pretend to be otherwise. If you’ve ever used something like The Nation, Politico, Slate, Jacobin, etc. as a reference then you’re in the same boat. If you disagree these are the same in principle, then you’re not being very honest about publication biases.
Also, let’s please be honest with ourselves here. I wear a mask and can count the times I’ve socialized with people since March on one hand. I’m also a PhD scientist and appreciate that fast science is bad science, and lots of things we ‘know’ this year will turn out to be wrong. Others will be revealed as being deliberately untrue, such as the original CDC dictate not to wear or buy masks, which was intended to shore up the stockpiles we failed to maintain.
We should all endeavor to remember that lots of things we think we know aren’t nearly as settled as we imagined. For instance, the comment above where masks are understood to reduce droplets that spread the coronavirus - yes, probably, this makes intuitive sense. However, there’s a professional disagreement about what droplet size is actually problematic and causes transmission. There was also a recent experiment with the US Marines, which may be the intended reference, where testing before and during basic training found that constant universal masking with enforced compliance and mandatory distancing was unable to stop COVID transmission, which reached 2% positivity rates within 2 weeks. Can’t link on mobile, but was published in NEJM in November.
There are lots of facets of this year that won’t be understood well, or correctly, for years if ever. Please treat your fellow forum dwellers with respect. I’ll continue to wear my mask, but I have no expectation it does anything more than mitigate the situation. I’m unaware of any disease in history that was eradicated on the basis of voluntary actions, so all I can do is request that everyone stays as safe as they can until a vaccine is locally available, and then request you to take it.
While I agree with your points, for some of us Wikipedia didn’t exist when we were in high school. Or ****, the internet either. 😂
7 hours ago, Vontoothskie said:The first entry on wikipedia cites The Federalist as publishing false information and outright lies about Covid-19, and specifically references this article as a lie. even cursory research would immediately tell you this site hosts propoganda and conspiracy theories.
I had assumed when you referenced CDC research regarding the positive infection of 3,000 people that you were refering to the actual research published in March, not a work of fiction. Please check your sources in the future before spreading dangerous propoganda that costs lives
What of these sites..
https://jordanschachtel.substack.com/p/cdc-85-of-covid-19-patients-report
37 minutes ago, LTuser said:
CDC article cited in the first link: Community and Close Contact Exposures Associated with COVID-19 Among Symptomatic Adults ≥18 Years in 11 Outpatient Health Care Facilities — United States, July 2020 | MMWR (cdc.gov)
I keep hearing people say "wear a mask". I haven't heard anyone say "clean your mask". I have seen no guidance on how many times per 8 hour shift a worker should disinfect a mask or change into a clean one. I have seen no educational materials teaching people to not touch their mask. Having a germ ridden rag across one's face won't stop viral spread. PPE requires training and compliance with said training. Sterile technique is not trivial to perform. At this point the mask thing has become so political there is little hope to actually educate anyone on how to make them effective. Also known, masks when used properly slow the spread, not stop the spread. Simply wearing a mask won't make a virus go away. Vaccines or herd immunity does that. The myth that if everyone would just wear a mask this whole thing would go away is just that, a myth. It helps slow the spread when properly used.
Here is a honest interview of Dr. Anthony Fauci on this topic for those in need of more information.
Hoping wide spread vaccination happens soon and gencon happens in 2021.
Edited by Mep