50 minutes ago, Silver_leader said:

Legion just got a new RRG. Maybe X-Wing will have a final push until the end of 2020 with FFG.

Turbo implementation of the keywords I hope. I have been very curious about those.

Dont we have an ongoing "what one thing would you change" thread? X wing is great but lets not act like there are a few even simple rules changes people would like to see. Somethings could be improved with a simple rules update.

Will we continue to get news items here or is Atomic going to have a news page

29 minutes ago, Koing907 said:

Yeah. That was especially cringe worthy.

What’s cringe worthy is the reaction to it. The AMG guy is being self-effacing here, not pretentious. He said something, thought it sounded kind of snooty and high-minded, and knocked himself down a peg to be more humble and relatable. That’s a completely normal, admirable, self-aware thing to do. @ForceSensitive : I don’t think you’re reading the guy correctly.

17 minutes ago, librarian101 said:

Will we continue to get news items here or is Atomic going to have a news page

That is a great question. I believe it will be on their website. They definitely write a lot about crisis protocol. Which is something x wing, legion, and armada need.

16 minutes ago, Cpt ObVus said:

What’s cringe worthy is the reaction to it. The AMG guy is being self-effacing here, not pretentious. He said something, thought it sounded kind of snooty and high-minded, and knocked himself down a peg to be more humble and relatable. That’s a completely normal, admirable, self-aware thing to do. @ForceSensitive : I don’t think you’re reading the guy correctly.

I don't find "A lifelong journey of learning and improvement" in the context of a plastic spaceship game to be particularly relatable.

It sounds like the kind of corporate boilerplate on a "morale email".

2 minutes ago, Koing907 said:

I don't find "A lifelong journey of learning and improvement" in the context of a plastic spaceship game to be particularly relatable.

It sounds like the kind of corporate boilerplate on a "morale email".

IMO that's probably the first-time they've tried engaging with this community, likely before they were ready to do so, and I expect they froze up in the spotlight. One incident a pattern does not make. Let 'em shake it out for a bit and I imagine they'll be way more personal and informative, or if not, we'll know better after a few interactions. Some folks aren't great in a first interview or first date.

15 minutes ago, Koing907 said:

I don't find "A lifelong journey of learning and improvement" in the context of a plastic spaceship game to be particularly relatable.

It sounds like the kind of corporate boilerplate on a "morale email".

That’s why he laughed and stopped himself and said, “Yes.” Because he knew that a “lifelong yadayada” didn’t sound relatable. You are literally reiterating my point.

5 hours ago, ForceSensitive said:

More rationally, basically this quote says "we think we can do better to design a game that was once a contender against 40k with out ever having actually worked on it."

X-Wing isn't even in the Top 5 of sales, anymore, let alone a contender. If someone doesn't change it/refine it, its going to die. Being "once a contender" looks nice on a resume, but doesn't reflect your current performance.

Besides, even the FFG crew didn't consider it done, as every points refinement and FAQ/Errata was changes on the formula to try to improve upon it.

1 hour ago, All Shields Forward said:

Dont we have an ongoing "what one thing would you change" thread? X wing is great but lets not act like there are a few even simple rules changes people would like to see. Somethings could be improved with a simple rules update.

The concern is, that things will be changes that do not need to be changed. Someone earlier also had the concern on yet more price hikes. If you look at FFG's store page, the Conversion kits have been marked down to what looks like 'clearance prices', indicating they may not be making them in the future. Maybe they want people to re-buy into it from now on rather than getting the 'cheap way back in'. That would be a show of massive greed.

My concern, is they wont be near as generous with product, or tournament kits, or general expansions. But.. time well tell i guess. It's not like we have much choice in the matter other than 'ride it out' or 'bow out and sell' or 'keep and play with what you got'.

I would love to engage more heavily with you so right now as some good points are behind made all around, but I seem to have run out of reaction allowance? Only the second time that's even happened for me? So I feel a little unable to really 'give points' the way I'd like to so that even if I don't directly respond to you, you'd still be able to know I saw and appreciated you? If that makes sense?

I feel like reaction icons are my way of nodding along on the forums. Maybe I've been here too long lol 🙄 😂 🍻 hopefully that allowance gets restored in a few hours?

The conversion packs were always going to have to be discontinued at some point. Once people stop needing them stores will stop ordering new ones.

I've been feeling the same reaction fatigue. That just means it's time to step away from the thread for a bit. Not that I don't want to see everyone's lovely faces (err... profile pics), but this has run its course for now. When the news is doing 24-hour coverage without much actual 'new's to talk about, it's time to turn off the stream and go do something better with that time. See y'all later!

2 hours ago, All Shields Forward said:

Dont we have an ongoing "what one thing would you change" thread? X wing is great but lets not act like there are a few even simple rules changes people would like to see. Somethings could be improved with a simple rules update.

A simple rule change or update is one thing. Changing ownership of the entire product is something entirely different.

Hol up - has anyone quoted Han on the situation yet?

1 minute ago, FTS Gecko said:

A simple rule change or update is one thing. Changing ownership of the entire product is something entirely different.

Hol up - has anyone quoted Han on the situation yet?

Asmodee still owns it though

1 minute ago, All Shields Forward said:

Asmodee still owns it though

Is that supposed to be reassuring? Because it's not.

3 hours ago, Lyianx said:

Someone earlier also had the concern on yet more price hikes. indicating they may not be making them in the future. Maybe they want people to re-buy into it from now on rather than getting the 'cheap way back in'. That would be a show of massive greed.

This is the second Black Friday that Miniatures Market is blowing out 1.0 ships at $8 each.

Holy fudge did someone make a logistical mistake in running 1.0 depletions before offering new 2.0 product. At this point XWM is competing with itself for sales. That's a god-awful mistake even if you are not greedy.

At some point, AMG just needs to let go of 1.0 and decide what 2.0 looks like on store shelves in terms of OT factions and the new ones.

Quote

If you look at FFG's store page, the Conversion kits have been marked down to what looks like 'clearance prices',

Let the past die; discontinue it if you have to.

11 hours ago, FTS Gecko said:

If they currently have zero Organised Play elements for their current game, how on Earth can they provide anywhere near the worldwide community support for the Star Wars games that FFG offered?

Organised Play might have been on the backburner due to the pandemic, but it was a huge reason why the community for these games grew to the level it did. Without it...

IMHO, lame-*** OP is what has been holding this game back. There are so many untapped options for XWM that can't fit thru the Standard Play sphincter. I hope that one thing AMG does is cater to the kitchen table player.

And not to bash Mr. Davy, but I actually liked the direction XWM took once he left the dev team for Legion. I felt he was way too focused on OP and tournament players, to the point where I felt XWM was generating an elite click of "cool players" who could give a **** what beer-and-pretzels XWM could look like for the rest of us plebs.

3 hours ago, FTS Gecko said:

Is that supposed to be reassuring? Because it's not.

The last few waves have been great, Legion is growing, and Clone Wars is coming out for Armada. This is a pretty gd great time for Star Wars mini games.

Here, in Spain, my shop owner said the new Wave has been delayed until January 22th.

Bad news.

6 hours ago, All Shields Forward said:

The last few waves have been great, Legion is growing, and Clone Wars is coming out for Armada. This is a pretty gd great time for Star Wars mini games.

...and all that's down to the hard work of FFG over the last couple of years, not Atomic Mass Games and not Asmodee. So we're going from a pretty great timr for Star Wars mini games to completely unknown territory.

7 hours ago, Darth Meanie said:

IMHO, lame-*** OP is what has been holding this game back. There are so many untapped options for XWM that can't fit thru the Standard Play sphincter. I hope that one thing AMG does is cater to the kitchen table player .

...by which you mean that player that refused to buy into second edition (i.e. support the game they purport to love) for well over a year into it's life cycle, rather than that player who helped grow the X-Wing community to the extent it did?

Ah, yes... "Meanie Problems".

7 hours ago, All Shields Forward said:

The last few waves have been great, Legion is growing, and Clone Wars is coming out for Armada. This is a pretty gd great time for Star Wars mini games.

So you're saying it wasn't broke but Asmodee decided to fix it anyway. Sounds like justification to be at least a little worried.

It sucks for the FFG employees, that's a definite negative feeling about the whole affair for me.

The silver lining for me as a kitchen table player who gets a few games in a month with my sizeable collection is that if nothing good ever comes out for the game again I've still got years of fun left in it. If AMG produces stuff I want that's just gravy.

7 hours ago, Darth Meanie said:

IMHO, lame-*** OP is what has been holding this game back. There are so many untapped options for XWM that can't fit thru the Standard Play sphincter. I hope that one thing AMG does is cater to the kitchen table player.

And not to bash Mr. Davy, but I actually liked the direction XWM took once he left the dev team for Legion. I felt he was way too focused on OP and tournament players, to the point where I felt XWM was generating an elite click of "cool players" who could give a **** what beer-and-pretzels XWM could look like for the rest of us plebs.

Dude, I know you've got your personal preferences but you've got to realise what a terrible take this is.

The strong competitive scene from early in 1e's life cycle is absolutely a huge part of the reason X-Wing got as big as it did. I can tell you that as someone who didn't even get particularly involved in competitive play. It struck absolute gold as being a game that was easy to pick up, pretty to look at in shop windows and robust enough to sustain formal competition.

Just look at the all those pillars of the community. The podcasts, the blogs, the the teams and orgs. They all pushed sales of the game, all promoted awareness and popularised the game in other areas. The good will marketing of the game GSP has done alone is impressive. And all of them have a focus on competitive play.

Without the competitive scene existing to allow players to become dedicated, there would have been no dedicated players to keep coming back to the game buying packs just for upgrades, buying new ships just to try out weird list ideas and buying weird obscure comic book ships just because they had interesting, potentially competitive stat lines.

Without the competitive scene, this game would have died out halfway through 1e once they ran out of movie ships.

9 hours ago, Darth Meanie said:

IMHO, lame-*** OP is what has been holding this game back. There are so many untapped options for XWM that can't fit thru the Standard Play sphincter. I hope that one thing AMG does is cater to the kitchen table player.

The other guys have made a good point about tourney play having made the game as big as it is. When it comes down to it the game plays much better when played in the constraints of a tourney round time-frame which makes you correct in that it hampers the game in trying to play it outside of the tourney format.

I do think the designers have grown a bit of myopic with regards to new players. It often seems to me that they don't see things through the eyes of someone who has much less time invested in all of this. I think even the designers sometimes show a git-gud attitude to players.

14 hours ago, Cpt ObVus said:

That’s why he laughed and stopped himself and said, “Yes.” Because he knew that a “lifelong yadayada” didn’t sound relatable. You are literally reiterating my point.

I'll grant this much: it's a text transcript and is missing the nuances of human communication that would give us a better understanding. But that's all.

Being self aware of how awful you sound after the fact does not take away from the fact that it was still your first impulse to say the thing that was awful. That's like saying some really anti(whatever) comment off the tip of your tongue then realizing the crowd was probably not the one you wanted to say that in front of. Their first thought was still their gut reaction and mode of thought, and that's more important in an instance like this. Like to be fair to you, if they had led with "at the risk of sounding pretentious..." Or some such lead in asking those lines, then you'd be right, they were self-aware of their position and tried to make light of it. But that's not what happened. It reads to me like straight ego with no filter. On this though we can agree to disagree.

14 hours ago, kris40k said:

X-Wing isn't even in the Top 5 of sales, anymore, let alone a contender. If someone doesn't change it/refine it, its going to die. Being "once a contender" looks nice on a resume, but doesn't reflect your current performance.

Besides, even the FFG crew didn't consider it done, as every points refinement and FAQ/Errata was changes on the formula to try to improve upon it.

Your right, it got bumped by Legion, which is just proof in the vein of how good the design teams were at FFG that while they were supposedly board game specialists, they showed up with TWO product lines that were contenders at the same time. And still have one at least in it.

More importantly, I'm not so sure we should even use the numbers for last spring (or this entire year really) with the release schedule not having done a lot until these last few months, and more notably the pandemic. I don't find it any surprise that when everyone was trying to figure out a way to stay home the top 5 sellers were mostly hobbyist craft types. To play X-wing at home you don't need the models, you need TTS. So sales of course are going to bottom out. That's a lot of confounds in the dataset to consider it usable. Because even just looking around at how many new folk have joined the forum in the past year, and the post frequency still remaining high, X-wing is the farthest thing from death by a long shot.

And don't get me wrong, we all know changes and adjustments were going to keep happening. That's a given and a welcome one at that. Heck most of our discussions on this board are for changes. But the way these new guys sound is that they're eyeing up something more than the standard point tweak or new mechanic. If they can pull it off, great, but that's a scary big if whenever you change heads like this. Experience has taught me this many times in gaming and elsewhere.

Like they sound like they're chomping at the bit to do 2.5+ ASAP. And while I'll happily later engage in that subject and why I never expected the inevitable 2.X edits to be that bad when FFG still had it, the idea that they sound eager to get started on one is simultaneously unsurprising for a new company that got handed a golden goose, and saddening that they could really muck it up.

I think this catches up our side of the convo to yesterday though where my emoji allowance ran out. So I'll pause here.

2 hours ago, GuacCousteau said:

The strong competitive scene from early in 1e's life cycle is absolutely a huge part of the reason X-Wing got as big as it did. I can tell you that as someone who didn't even get particularly involved in competitive play. It struck absolute gold as being a game that was easy to pick up, pretty to look at in shop windows and robust enough to sustain formal competition.. .

Plus, you could play with a handful of minis which you didn't need to assemble or paint and on average the games tend to last an hour or so. Very, very few mini games out there that tick all these boxes.

19 minutes ago, Frimmel said:

I do think the designers have grown a bit of myopic with regards to new players. It often seems to me that they don't see things through the eyes of someone who has much less time invested in all of this. I think even the designers sometimes show a git-gud attitude to players.

I really don't agree with this. The developers tried a lot of things throughout second edition to make sure it wasn't JUST competitive or existing players who had something to do. Whether that's stuff like quick builds, the multiple play formats, custom game modes like Battle of Yavin or expansions like Epic Battles etc, they gave plenty of tools for both casual and competitive players alike.

They don't get credit for a lot of this because the community as a whole tends to focus on the competitive side of standard play (exactly what Meanie is doing here).