10 minutes ago, kris40k said:

Expanding on this, apps allow you to do a lot more than you can do without one, when dealing with hidden information and back-end record keeping. One of my favorite digital boardgames is Armello . Fans of the game are always screaming that there should be a physical copy of the game made, but the developers have repeatedly shot that idea down due to it not working. As I've played the game over the years, I've picked up on the little things that happen behind the scenes and though, "how would you do that at the table" and the amount of bookkeeping that game would have is ridiculous. From things such as tracking certain combinations of what hero is holding what magic items, or has what follower when they step on a stone circle or forest tile, and if its day or night, and if that triggers a special event or not without telling the players (psst...the druids are actually hiding here this game), determining where the King drops random perils every night, without giving away what the peril is and if its appropriate combination for that peril to be on that tile, where Banes randomly spawn every night, resolving combat between King's Guard and Banes, etc., etc. There is a mountain of fiddly bits that happen without the players having to handle it. It really would break down if you took the computer out of the game.

Mansions of Madness is also a decent example of what you can do when you have the app handling hidden information. From the interview, it sounds like Kara took what expertise she developed with MoM one-off stories, took the self-contained limitations off and ran with it for Legends' campaign. I look forward to seeing the results.

As i see so far at this moment, The app comes when the game designers cant express with ideas some board gsme mechanics. In my opinion, the games that uses apps feels "prosthetics", the implementation is very very poor.

Also, the real magic, IMO, in board games is the analogic sense, the "human" component is vital.

Apps? not for me, and romantically speaking, not for anyone: the apps can kill the tabletop.

Cheers everyone

The more I think of it, the more I think this game should be a Terrinoth universe game but with no descent in his title like : "Legends of Terrinoth" so this way the game would have his on identity and could exist without his big brother and since FFG insiste on the point that is no Descent V3, this would be a better communication.

But since they chose descent in the title, this will without any doubt be a threat to his life as a game.

If looking the game with no Descent in it, I would be less agressive, even if the app only driven mechanic regarding of the app is for sure a risky choice and the price is ridiculously expesnsive regarding the components (either price is cut in half either all 3d carton is replaced by plastic to be acceptable).

But as a Descent game line, my position won't move : this game sucks in all ways, to the point that even if I would receive a free game, I wouldn't even play it, because of 3 points : horrible art, the mechanics of turning over cards over and over, and a boring app that makes me feel playing a bad video game decorated with few miniatures on an unfinished prototype game. So buying and playing this game would be as acceoting games are going the wrong way and I refuse to accepte this statement.

If i were them, I would immediately change the game name to save the idea. This may look nothing, but I'm sure it is really important

It's got D2e to 5th on bgg current interest, so if nothing else it has sort of helped 2e back into the spotlight, but of course once BGG has a 'legends' page it could be cast into the shadows, as someone who likes the sound of 'legends' albeit with (like yourself) some reservations, as well as Descent journeys..., I REALLY hope 'journeys' has a future FFG-wise not just 'legends', if not we still have a lot of 2e to play with however even though the legends may be beginning I feel the journeys are not over

On 10/22/2020 at 7:59 PM, Tubb said:

Saying that a game seems reasonably priced and at the same time that compares to what GW puts out seems to be an oxymoron... XD

Maybe so, but after being burned by Runewars, I decided to start supporting a game with a long history and lots of players so that a) I can usecmy purchases for years to come, and b) easily find other players. So yes, I am now a GW customer (thank FFG for that), and I've moved into a stage of my life where I feel I can justify GW's prices, even if it will take me two years to slowly buy up my army. But hey, Runewars died in that time frame and at least I'm confident that 40k won't.

But that's one thing going for Descent - it's meant to be 3 parts and then it's done, so we won't cry foul if they terminate this line after a few years because we already know the limits, and at that price, I think that's fine.

1 hour ago, Budgernaut said:

Maybe so, but after being burned by Runewars, I decided to start supporting a game with a long history and lots of players so that a) I can usecmy purchases for years to come, and b) easily find other players. So yes, I am now a GW customer (thank FFG for that), and I've moved into a stage of my life where I feel I can justify GW's prices, even if it will take me two years to slowly buy up my army. But hey, Runewars died in that time frame and at least I'm confident that 40k won't.

But that's one thing going for Descent - it's meant to be 3 parts and then it's done, so we won't cry foul if they terminate this line after a few years because we already know the limits, and at that price, I think that's fine.

That's the one thing GW has always had, willingness to support their lines even though tough times, knowing that it builds brand loyalty. I dislike their games (I find them to be overly fiddly), but their commitment to brand loyalty is admirable.

6 hours ago, rugal said:

The more I think of it, the more I think this game should be a Terrinoth universe game but with no descent in his title like...

<smip>

... If i were them, I would immediately change the game name to save the idea. This may look nothing, but I'm sure it is really important

You are at Bargaining. Keep working through it, you'll reach Acceptance soon enough, man,

You can slip back and forth on the journey though, so just be self-aware of the spots of Anger.

17 minutes ago, Supertoe said:

That's the one thing GW has always had, willingness to support their lines even though tough times, knowing that it builds brand loyalty. I dislike their games (I find them to be overly fiddly), but their commitment to brand loyalty is admirable.

Mordheim fans be like...

Haha, you win 😂

It's easy to bash GW for the company they are now, but prior to FFG they were the the best board game company. From their involvement in heroquest and space crusade to classics such as blood bowl, necromunda, man o' war, warhammer quest, space hulk and fury of dracula.

FFG took the crown with with twilight imperium, arkham horror, descent, runebound and runewars.

FFG has has a good run at being the top company, just like GW did, but now the crown is beginning to slip. They've also picked up a certain reputation, just like GW has.

1 hour ago, kris40k said:

You are at Bargaining. Keep working through it, you'll reach Acceptance soon enough, man,

You can slip back and forth on the journey though, so just be self-aware of the spots of Anger.

Why would I accept this game since I hate from the time I playtested it ?

I won't change my position and that's why I'm returning to do my custom stuff for the second edition with my friend.

1 hour ago, rugal said:

I won't change my position and that's why I'm returning to do my custom stuff for the second edition with my friend.

That is Testing, where you seek out realistic solutions that you can do to take control of the situation and move forward.

Its a good step!

Edit: Acceptance would sound something like, "Well, Legends clearly isn't the game I was hoping it would be, being fully coop and app based, but I see that that is how the game was designed from its initial conception through development, so that's never going to change. It just isn't the game I am looking for, but that is okay , there are others that seem to want that kind of game. I'll just keep working on and enjoying my 2nd Ed. Journeys stuff with my friends and hoping for a proper 1 v Many 3rd Ed. of Journeys comes out soon."

So, kinda like where you are with going on with 2nd Ed., but without the resentment and hoping that Legends fails. Accepting that the game is what it is and moving on.

Interestingly, I just played an encounter in Warhammer Blackstone fortress (their one vs many, but really a coop, game) and realized it would work better with an app. It is a nice looking game, cool story, lots of interesting mechanics. But, wow I forget to do stuff. There are quite a few end of turn checks and small rules for this and that, it seems like an app would speed it up.

couple things. Solo play, with or without an app should probably be a computer game, in my opinion. The big difference is I like to paint, and you can’t do that (the same way) with a computer.

it does seem expensive, blackstone fortress is cheaper with more stuff and maybe better quality minis.

I have really enjoyed descent 2e, got into it last year and only have a few expansions. Was hoping 3e plus a conversion kit would be an option. It was a great game for when our normal DM got campaign fatigue.

anyway, I will wait for the game to actually be available, then depending on personal finance and reviews from people who have played it l will decide.

I got into D2e really late (about 2 years ago) and snatched up all the product I could find. I’ve got the complete set now but never really played it much until Road to Legend was released. I like co-op, as it allows my daughter and I to play with each other. I don’t have time to organize and host groups of 3+ to have someone play as the Overlord. I definitely appreciate the co-op experience.

I think FFG realizes that they can increase profitability of this line by selling digital expansions that reuse or encourage the purchasing of existing physical LotD products (tiles, monsters, etc.) If digital expansions do well, this might encourage them to release even more physical expansions, which will in turn drive future digital scenarios, etc. I’m all for this.

With regards to the art, they’ve definitely moved more towards the CMON Zombicide/Massive Darkness style. I don’t really mind the new art, though admittedly, I do prefer a more realistic approach to fantasy art versus the cartoon/anime style. It’s not a deal breaker though.

As for the price, it’s a bit steep but not totally out of line with big box sets from more expensive companies like GW etc. As long as the minis are high quality and use nice hard plastic, good quality card stock, nice full colour rule book etc, I think it’s fine.

Edit: Someone mentioned it was announced that this product has a limited product cycle (i.e. not many expansions)...is that true? That might be a deal-breaker for me.

2 hours ago, kris40k said:

So, kinda like where you are with going on with 2nd Ed., but without the resentment and hoping that Legends fails. Accepting that the game is what it is and moving on.

I won't. Accepting games are going a way I don't like, accepting games are doubling prices, accepting that I will never find my pleasure again with new games ?

This is not ok. I hope this game fails so game will come back the way I like, sorry for the ones that would like this game. But I know some players think the opposite but that won't make me change.

19 hours ago, kris40k said:

My journey was really fast, even faster than for LotR:JiME. Both a pass and this is a very fast pass.

You all are being kind of condescending with the "stages of grief" thing.

On 10/22/2020 at 7:02 PM, Aerexx said:

We all knew it was going to be app driven co-op only game. Which is fantastic. I wish people would stop reiterating on that. But the art work, tiles and 3D objects along with the MSRP...175 USD lol...I have no words. But hey the app sounds really well done and the minis look great. But over all pretty disappointing especially with that price. I really wish they would keep reprinting 2nd ed big box expansions for those of us who are still interested.

The minis always look great when they are digitally rendered, but what you end up with isn't always great. Also I wanted to get on board with app driven games which is something we are seeing more and more with in board games. Its obvious that they do have a market in the hobby as so many are popping up here and there. But are they necessary to create a functional fun game? I'm no fan, but something that will work both ways would appeal to me. I think a massive market is being missed by designers and developers who make games that are useless with out an app, because there are so many gamers who will just skip these games by and look elsewhere for another game that doesn't. I wasn't long ago interviewed about the important of a solo option in one of my games and I answered with: that a game should be given as much audience as it can, a game that can be played solo is appealing to the who hobby, but one that can't is missing out on a whole other audience. I would add the same to app driven games. Give us an option to play the game with or with an app and your market has grown significantly.

20 hours ago, rugal said:

I hope this game fails so game will come back the way I like, sorry for the ones that would like this game.

Ok...

I never wished for any game to fail, even the Munchkin series and Cards Against Humanity which i both hate.

What about the way others like their games?

In what world should yours supersede mine, or others' ?

3 hours ago, Supertoe said:

You all are being kind of condescending with the "stages of grief" thing.

Its just me.

And yeah, kind of. Rugal has repeatedly shown absolute disdain for games based on apps , which this one has baked into its core and is not an option for removal, he has stated over and over that he wants this game to fail , declared it "dead" before its even launched and by his own admission he even got himself kicked out of the beta test for Legends .

It is obvious that Rugal is not the target audience of this game, as its an app based fully coop game. It would be wonderful for him to accept this, and move on, as his presence here is purely negative and he has admitted that he has no desire to offer constructive criticism

3 hours ago, kris40k said:

Its just me.

And yeah, kind of. Rugal has repeatedly shown absolute disdain for games based on apps , which this one has baked into its core and is not an option for removal, he has stated over and over that he wants this game to fail , declared it "dead" before its even launched and by his own admission he even got himself kicked out of the beta test for Legends .

It is obvious that Rugal is not the target audience of this game, as its an app based fully coop game. It would be wonderful for him to accept this, and move on, as his presence here is purely negative and he has admitted that he has no desire to offer constructive criticism

I did ! Constructive criticism is simple, here you are again ...

1 - Art is ugly, even if some like it, but more than hero art, cards templates, item, and all are really from an old age, and tiles are disapointing. When seeing the terrain and cards, it reminds me of old video games with big tiles set with big pixels and nothing really immerging and art that not even correspond with the game art itself. Miniatures and art are like they comme from different games

2 - App games are either random events with some buffs and race game or either like smart phone game with miniatures to retain position. App should be able to have a real IA, retain miniatures position, health and all to give a real challenge, something only an app can do and for what I saw it could be cards so useless and then should be

3 - Carton 3d objets are fragile, ugly, and useless. Even Mantic's Dungeon saga for 50$ was full of plastic 3d pieces, not to mention that build and unbuild it will broke it if not just by being pressed on inside the box ... These objects remind me of Minecraft style and I cannot stand it, we are on 2020, not in 1980 ...

4 - 3d terrain will break after many play because mini are heavy for just carton things so for 175$, the game will die soon and be no more playable

5 - Having an app knowing all (monster health, attack results of your dice, etc ...) and you nothing as a player may be fun for some but is a pain to me, I'm just like a slave to a game that is omniscient where I'm blind. So, just roll dice, tell the app, then apply results. You see this as "playing" ? I see this as being a useless spectator

6 - Miniatures looks great but I want to see final product, and on top of that, even if I can see good finition, I'm not impressed by many choices (bases, poney tail uthuks ...). Let's say this is personnal things ...

7 - Flipping cards over with differents status is really boring to me, I don't see the idea to it. Seriously, that's boring and a bit complicated and frustrating for nothing really fun. Games should not have mechanics where you manipulate things over and over because it is boring and you forget important rules, make mistakes, and lost track of your tactics

8 - Rules are nothing compared to Descent and game are nothing connected so they should had different names and exist as differents game line. If you know how to play descent, then forget it all, this game as not a simple word connected with ! So why are they both shame the name Descent since not the rules nor the component may be mixed except universe ? Should be another name then !

9 - 175€ dollar is overpriced ! Dungeon Saga had the same amount of components for less than half of the price (areound 50$), needed no app, had a solo play using Overlord card and really simulating an Overlord, where Descent cannot do such

10 - All of my gamer's group hated the game when I presented it to them. It's not as if I was the only one : all ! 10 members ! So, none ever played with me, even begging so I had to test it alone, and all abandonned me when the test time was here. All of them, ten people, and I was really excited at that time, really, until I play ...

Happy with that ?

2 hours ago, Shirys said:

Ok...

I never wished for any game to fail, even the Munchkin series and Cards Against Humanity which i both hate.

What about the way others like their games?

In what world should yours supersede mine, or others' ?

Munchkin series should !

My perfect world has only perfect games and players 🤣

Now, I'm out, I don't care much more of this game. The ones that wish to have custom stuff for Descent V2, comme back soon !

On 10/26/2020 at 2:26 PM, rugal said:

I did ! Constructive criticism is simple, here you are again ...

1 - Art is ugly, even if some like it, but more than hero art, cards templates, item, and all are really from an old age, and tiles are disapointing. When seeing the terrain and cards, it reminds me of old video games with big tiles set with big pixels and nothing really immerging and art that not even correspond with the game art itself. Miniatures and art are like they comme from different games

2 - App games are either random events with some buffs and race game or either like smart phone game with miniatures to retain position. App should be able to have a real IA, retain miniatures position, health and all to give a real challenge, something only an app can do and for what I saw it could be cards so useless and then should be

3 - Carton 3d objets are fragile, ugly, and useless. Even Mantic's Dungeon saga for 50$ was full of plastic 3d pieces, not to mention that build and unbuild it will broke it if not just by being pressed on inside the box ... These objects remind me of Minecraft style and I cannot stand it, we are on 2020, not in 1980 ...

4 - 3d terrain will break after many play because mini are heavy for just carton things so for 175$, the game will die soon and be no more playable

5 - Having an app knowing all (monster health, attack results of your dice, etc ...) and you nothing as a player may be fun for some but is a pain to me, I'm just like a slave to a game that is omniscient where I'm blind. So, just roll dice, tell the app, then apply results. You see this as "playing" ? I see this as being a useless spectator

6 - Miniatures looks great but I want to see final product, and on top of that, even if I can see good finition, I'm not impressed by many choices (bases, poney tail uthuks ...). Let's say this is personnal things ...

7 - Flipping cards over with differents status is really boring to me, I don't see the idea to it. Seriously, that's boring and a bit complicated and frustrating for nothing really fun. Games should not have mechanics where you manipulate things over and over because it is boring and you forget important rules, make mistakes, and lost track of your tactics

8 - Rules are nothing compared to Descent and game are nothing connected so they should had different names and exist as differents game line. If you know how to play descent, then forget it all, this game as not a simple word connected with ! So why are they both shame the name Descent since not the rules nor the component may be mixed except universe ? Should be another name then !

9 - 175€ dollar is overpriced ! Dungeon Saga had the same amount of components for less than half of the price (areound 50$), needed no app, had a solo play using Overlord card and really simulating an Overlord, where Descent cannot do such

10 - All of my gamer's group hated the game when I presented it to them. It's not as if I was the only one : all ! 10 members ! So, none ever played with me, even begging so I had to test it alone, and all abandonned me when the test time was here. All of them, ten people, and I was really excited at that time, really, until I play ...

Happy with that ?

Some of things you say man really show your of lack objectivity. Clearly this game is not for you but some of your points are laughable. Your stance is one sided. Look at what you said. Point 6... you say minis look good BUT you want to see final product and yet you dont take that same stance with any of your other negative points. Your opinion means nothing to me because you clearly are not being objective and I can see why they kicked you off the testing group (if you were even on it)

On 10/30/2020 at 9:42 PM, atar85 said:

Some of things you say man really show your of lack objectivity. Clearly this game is not for you but some of your points are laughable. Your stance is one sided. Look at what you said. Point 6... you say minis look good BUT you want to see final product and yet you dont take that same stance with any of your other negative points. Your opinion means nothing to me because you clearly are not being objective and I can see why they kicked you off the testing group (if you were even on it)

A point of view is basically one sided, this is the point ...
So, your post means nothing either. Let us stay at this point, I've got other matters to take care of.

2 hours ago, rugal said:

A point of view is basically one sided, this is the point ...
So, your post means nothing either. Let us stay at this point, I've got other matters to take care of.

no its not lol Wow. Please don't do any reviews on any games moving forward. I dont think you know what objective means. Your doing the people who actually read any reviews you produce a disservice when you conduct yourself that way. A point of view doesn't mean you are one sided. This isn't Politics homie.