I'd consider all of this as relatively open to debate and discussion. *e* less so, now.

I can add to the main post, if folks have suggestions for other topics or other examples.

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Alternate template based placements , such as Eamon Azzameen, Sol Syxxa, TIE/sa "Nimble Bomber" ship ability, Skilled Bombardier, Constable Zuvio, Trajectory Simulator:

IMHO, anything goes, as long as the two devices don't land in the same space.

Note on Trajectory Simulator: you'd need Skilled Bombardier to do a 4 & 5 double-launch (otherwise, you could only launch 5 and drop 1-or-2).

Partially open question : are two of the same speed bank/turn of different directions different templates? I think they are. Starviper says to use either left or right templates instead of 1-straight. Likewise the TIE Bomber's own ability. It draws a distinction between left and right.

Example of TIE Bomber here. To me, the way "a [left bank] or [right bank] template" is written here suggests that these ought to be viewed as separate, but of course still open to debate.

*edit* Confirmed . Two different directions are two different templates. "Q: Are left bank (or turn) and right bank (or turn) templates of the same speed considered different templates?A: Yes. Even though these templates are resolved with the same physical tool, they are considered different templates.For example, the [3 <] and [3 >], which use the same physical tool, flipped over), they are considered different templates. Thus, if an effect requires you to choose "two different templates," you may select the [3 <] template and the [3 >] template."

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Non-template drops :

Can Finch Dallow even use their ability on Thermal Detonators? "Each must be placed using a different template" kind of implies that they must be placed using a template . I'm not going to die on this hill, but I'm leaning that way.

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Alternate timings , such as Genius, Paige Tico (gunner or ship), Edon Kappehl, Deathfire:

Only one drop, but I'd let someone use either 1 or 2 template, and any further template tricks which are allowed by the triggering effect card.

*edit* Confirmed . "After a ship with Paige Tico (󲁒) is destroyed, that ship may drop one Thermal Detonator."

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Drop would be outside the play area :

I'd say that only charges of drops outside the play area are refunded, but drops that land within are treated as normal.

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Abilities which trigger off of Device Drops:

On 10/15/2020 at 6:09 PM, emeraldbeacon said:

What happens if you have an ability that can trigger after a bomb drop (Deathrain, Cad Bane, etc)? Can you drop one bomb, use the triggered ability, then drop the other and (potentially) trigger your ability a second time? Or, are the two bomb drops part of a single ability, and as such, must both be resolved before any triggered abilities can activate?

Up for debate for the time being.

Personally, I lean towards treating the multi-drop effect as a single trigger, but the other side makes sense too.

*EDIT* Answered! There are two triggers, and the two drops are considered independent. "• Abilities that trigger after dropping a device trigger after each Thermal Detonator is dropped. In terms of sequence, the first Thermal Detonator is dropped, any abilities that trigger from this (such as Deathrain [TIE/ca Punisher] or Delayed Fuses) are added to the queue and resolve, and then the second Thermal Detonator is dropped, and any abilities that trigger from this are added to the queue and resolved."

29 minutes ago, theBitterFig said:

Partially open question : are two of the same speed bank/turn of different directions different templates? I think they are. Starviper says to use either left or right templates instead of 1-straight. Likewise the TIE Bomber's own ability. It draws a distinction between left and right.

Example of TIE Bomber here. To me, the way "a [left bank] or [right bank] template" is written here suggests that these ought to be viewed as separate, but of course still open to debate.

For me you sealed your understanding of this part as the correct interpretation nicely. FFG should add a RR entry for "Templates" though so that there is less of a "rules availability locked behind purchase" or "not getting paired up with the scumbag cheater for an opponent to get an accurate explanation" in this case. And yes, I know scumbags make up a really small proportion of the player base, they still exist and can cause problems.

finch is a tough question. seems like you could place one of the thermal detonators touching him, the other one would need to use a different template than no template. i don't feel like no template is a different template than no template. hopefully, we'll see.

paige can drop three thermal detonators in a systems phase, no? and two of them can use the same template.

as for templates, it's contradictory in current rules text. in some places, it's written as if banks of the same speed are the same template, but in others it's described as though the different directions are different templates. so for now, i'm going with that, that different directions are different templates.

hmmm... no. i've changed my mind before even posting. there are only 11 templates in the game.

hopefully, we'll get clarifications that massively breaks something else in the game. and also upgrades that let you reload devices without taking disarm tokens. and a points reduction to concussive bombs. and trajectory simulator. and ways to relocate payloads. and ways to reload mines. and remove fuse tokens. and ways to add fuse tokens to payloads that you overlap. the bomb meta is here!

Wow. I hadn't even thought of these. IMHO, I would say that you can use two different templates. IE. You can drop using a 2 left and a 2 right template from a TIE Bomber

BTW, do we know what these do when they go off?

1 hour ago, Wolfshead said:

Wow. I hadn't even thought of these. IMHO, I would say that you can use two different templates. IE. You can drop using a 2 left and a 2 right template from a TIE Bomber

BTW, do we know what these do when they go off?

Each ship at Range 0-1 rolls 1 attack die. On a focus result, they suffer 1 strain, and on a hit/crit, they suffer 1 matching damage.

Or at least, that's what the article says, and we know how accurate the articles are!

What happens if you have an ability that can trigger after a bomb drop (Deathrain, Cad Bane, etc)? Can you drop one bomb, use the triggered ability, then drop the other and (potentially) trigger your ability a second time? Or, are the two bomb drops part of a single ability, and as such, must both be resolved before any triggered abilities can activate?

16 hours ago, emeraldbeacon said:

What happens if you have an ability that can trigger after a bomb drop (Deathrain, Cad Bane, etc)? Can you drop one bomb, use the triggered ability, then drop the other and (potentially) trigger your ability a second time? Or, are the two bomb drops part of a single ability, and as such, must both be resolved before any triggered abilities can activate?

Well, this is similar to Cluster Mines. "A Cluster Mine Set consists of 3 individual Cluster Mine devices."

However, i agree it gets tricky because you are still resolving a singular ability, meaning even if they did trigger individually, you wouldn't be able to interrupt the drop of the first, use the trigger, then drop the second, and use the trigger again. You'd have to drop both, then deal with the triggers..

So guess ultimately, id say each resolution of the ability (dropping the pair) is one singular trigger.

At least, thats how i read it.

17 hours ago, emeraldbeacon said:

Each ship at Range 0-1 rolls 1 attack die. On a focus result, they suffer 1 strain, and on a hit/crit, they suffer 1 matching damage.

Or at least, that's what the article says, and we know how accurate the articles are!

It's in the devices section of the RR with all of the othet bombs.

For anyone that uses different templates (Trajectory Simulator, Nimble Bomber, Skilled Bombardier, Emon Azzameen, Sol Sixxa, Paige Tico pilot), I would think that they would replace the drop mechanic. For Finch Dallow however, I am very uncertain, but I'd probably be fine with both being dropped at the base.

Alternate timings like Deathfire, Genius, Paige Tico gunner, Edon Kappehl, I'd definitely rule that only 1 detonator, as the double drop clause is specifically for the Systems Phase.

The REAL question is, "Does this bad boy get an action for each detonator dropped?". I say yes.

1 hour ago, Lyianx said:

So guess ultimately, id say each resolution of the ability (dropping the pair) is one singular trigger.

I'd agree with that. It seems like one trigger to me, so only one use of abilities.

19 hours ago, meffo said:

as for templates, it's contradictory in current rules text. in some places, it's written as if banks of the same speed are the same template, but in others it's described as though the different directions are different templates. so for now, i'm going with that, that different directions are different templates.

hmmm... no. i've changed my mind before even posting. there are only 11 templates in the game.

hopefully, we'll get clarifications that massively breaks something else in the game. and also upgrades that let you reload devices without taking disarm tokens. and a points reduction to concussive bombs. and trajectory simulator. and ways to relocate payloads. and ways to reload mines. and remove fuse tokens. and ways to add fuse tokens to payloads that you overlap. the bomb meta is here!

To me, part of it is avoiding something which seems silly. If the left-right templates are the same for the purposes of this ability, you could drop 1 left + 3 right (with Skilled Bombardier), or 2 right + 2 straight, but not 2 left + 2 right, which seems... kind of strange and arbitrary.

I could be spectacularly wrong, and it would be far from the first time, but my thinking is FFG just overlooked the potential quibble over what “template” means and will soon clarify.

39 minutes ago, theBitterFig said:

I'd agree with that. It seems like one trigger to me, so only one use of abilities.

To me, part of it is avoiding something which seems silly. If the left-right templates are the same for the purposes of this ability, you could drop 1 left + 3 right (with Skilled Bombardier), or 2 right + 2 straight, but not 2 left + 2 right, which seems... kind of strange and arbitrary.

yeah, i'd agree with that as well. meaning deathrain only gets one action. at least it looks like the ability of dropping one or more thermal detonators is one single effect. don't know for sure, though.

i agree with that too. from a gameplay perspective, it would be fine if you could use the same template, just in different directions. that's not how i interpret the text on the card, though. and that's in light of all of the text in the rules reference and the rulebook, keeping in mind that the word template is used in both ways, sometimes to distinguish just the actual templates and sometimes to distinguish direction (even if it's actually the same template). it's pretty weird.

14 minutes ago, meffo said:

keeping in mind that the word template is used in both ways, sometimes to distinguish just the actual templates and sometimes to distinguish direction (even if it's actually the same template). it's pretty weird.

As I see it, if it can go both ways... well... we can kinda choose what makes the most sense. At least until FFG lays down some ruling.

In my view, the essence, the deeper meaning, the goal is that Thermal Detonators don't put two bombs in the exact same place. Could things be viewed a different way? I guess. But I think this way is better .

1 minute ago, theBitterFig said:

As I see it, if it can go both ways... well... we can kinda choose what makes the most sense. At least until FFG lays down some ruling.

In my view, the essence, the deeper meaning, the goal is that Thermal Detonators don't put two bombs in the exact same place. Could things be viewed a different way? I guess. But I think this way is better .

i 100% agree with your RAI interpretation. on the other hand, i don't really see the harm in limiting some of the bomb dropping !*#-.¨&= i've been pulling off lately.

also, the rulebook states that there are 11 templates, so that's what i'm going with. i really really don't like using the rulebook, but still.

47 minutes ago, theBitterFig said:

As I see it, if it can go both ways... well... we can kinda choose what makes the most sense. At least until FFG lays down some ruling.

In my view, the essence, the deeper meaning, the goal is that Thermal Detonators don't put two bombs in the exact same place. Could things be viewed a different way? I guess. But I think this way is better .

This is how i take it to mean. They just don't want you laying bombs on top of each other to double up a narrow range where you may just barely tag one ship.

It also falls in line with.. "the easiest ruling to deal with is most likely the correct one" philosophy i try to follow.

2 hours ago, meffo said:

i 100% agree with your RAI interpretation. on the other hand, i don't really see the harm in limiting some of the bomb dropping !*#-.¨&= i've been pulling off lately.

also, the rulebook states that there are 11 templates, so that's what i'm going with. i really really don't like using the rulebook, but still.

I mean, if this is a problem you want to have, I'm not going to stop you. I just don't think you need to have that difficulty if you don't want to.

9 hours ago, meffo said:

yeah, i'd agree with that as well. meaning deathrain only gets one action. at least it looks like the ability of dropping one or more thermal detonators is one single effect. don't know for sure, though.

I think it kind of falls in line with the ruling about Admiral Sloane and Stress: The dropping effect of Thermal Detonators allows you to place one or two tokens... it doesn't allow you to drop after you drop. To that end, I'd argue that both token placements are part of the same "drop" event, and that the particular drop event has to be completed before any other triggers (like Deathrain) can be applied.

On 10/17/2020 at 12:44 PM, emeraldbeacon said:

I think it kind of falls in line with the ruling about Admiral Sloane and Stress: The dropping effect of Thermal Detonators allows you to place one or two tokens... it doesn't allow you to drop after you drop. To that end, I'd argue that both token placements are part of the same "drop" event, and that the particular drop event has to be completed before any other triggers (like Deathrain) can be applied.

Yes, I agree. Contrast it with the wording on something like Paige Tico:

On 10/16/2020 at 5:38 PM, 5050Saint said:

The REAL question is, "Does this bad boy get an action for each detonator dropped?". I say yes.

That would be perfect :)

I looked up cards that have specifically "bank" in them. L3-3T and Nien Nunb among others came up. Here's Nien:

It is similar on the other cards. This is quite distinct from use of the left and right symbol and the word "template" in Nimble Bomber. I take it as left and right are considered different templates.

Doesn't the k-turn instruction specifically use "straight" and not "k-turn template." If any straight were to be two templates both a straight and a k-turn you could use that as an argument to put two thermals in one spot which is clearly not the intention. Seems logical that for thermals left and right should be considered different. Also I think if the desire for the thermals was "must be different speeds" wording to that effect would have been used instead of "template."

On 10/15/2020 at 3:02 PM, theBitterFig said:

Drop would be outside the play area :

I'd say that only charges of drops outside the play area are refunded, but drops that land within are treated as normal.

Since we can fail actions now if your drop choices end up outside the play area you are out the charges and the bomb can not have an effect. You spend the two charges and pick your templates and if you've misjudged you've got to live with it just like any other action.

This brings up whether you have to state which two templates you'll use before putting any on the table. I would argue that you've got to state the two choices before placing the first bomb. I don't think you should be able to throw one out to check the range and then adjust the second.

23 minutes ago, Frimmel said:

I looked up cards that have specifically "bank" in them. L3-3T and Nien Nunb among others came up. Here's Nien:

It is similar on the other cards. This is quite distinct from use of the left and right symbol and the word "template" in Nimble Bomber. I take it as left and right are considered different templates.

Doesn't the k-turn instruction specifically use "straight" and not "k-turn template." If any straight were to be two templates both a straight and a k-turn you could use that as an argument to put two thermals in one spot which is clearly not the intention. Seems logical that for thermals left and right should be considered different. Also I think if the desire for the thermals was "must be different speeds" wording to that effect would have been used instead of "template."

Since we can fail actions now if your drop choices end up outside the play area you are out the charges and the bomb can not have an effect. You spend the two charges and pick your templates and if you've misjudged you've got to live with it just like any other action.

This brings up whether you have to state which two templates you'll use before putting any on the table. I would argue that you've got to state the two choices before placing the first bomb. I don't think you should be able to throw one out to check the range and then adjust the second.

You can fail bomb/mine drops and it is explicitly laid out in the rules reference that if a bomb/mine has any portion of it outside the play area, the charge is regenerated and the token is removed as if the drop had never happened.

I assume that with still hold true with thermal detonators for consistency reasons.

1 minute ago, SwampyCr said:

You can fail bomb/mine drops and it is explicitly laid out in the rules reference that if a bomb/mine has any portion of it outside the play area, the charge is regenerated and the token is removed as if the drop had never happened.

I assume that with still hold true with thermal detonators for consistency reasons.

I stand corrected then. I was not aware that had specifically been addressed.

On 10/16/2020 at 9:18 AM, Lyianx said:

So guess ultimately, id say each resolution of the ability (dropping the pair) is one singular trigger.

What if you were to drop one detonator and launch the other? Would those be considered different triggers?

1 hour ago, Frimmel said:

I stand corrected then. I was not aware that had specifically been addressed.

page 10, device.

2 hours ago, 5050Saint said:

What if you were to drop one detonator and launch the other? Would those be considered different triggers?

Um.. no? Its still one drop event.