1 minute ago, Lemmiwinks86 said:

Because of this rule:

Sure, it never explicitly say that it's redolved immediately, but in my opinion to argue that it's not resolved when the card is revealed, even if the card has no explicit timing is a far reach. I wouldn't be condortable playing with someone that can look into those extremely tiny gaps in the rules

Again, the rules you show only state when the card is revealed not resolved. And that's the problem, there exists at least one person interpreting it differently without anything in the rulebook directly contradicting them. Similarly, it could be extended to if Padme HAS to be the first unit deployed (either at all or by just player that Divulged the card) or if the player still has to option of when to deploy her. I fully believe the intention is for the player to still get to choose when to deploy her, but I could see how someone would read it as she has to be deployed immediately, similarly to the Bane tokens.

Having played against such people I agree it makes for a tiring, frustrating game. But sometimes the choice is play that person or not get a game at all for the week (not to mention not getting to spend time with any friends in the gaming group). Or in a tournament setting, you HAVE to continue the game, likely after waiting for the judge to show up to resolve the disagreement(s). If the behavior isn't stopped (due to societal constraints or the fact that the group cannot dictate who shows up for open gaming at the store) it can lead to the end of a gaming group since no one wants to risk getting paired up with them.

2 minutes ago, Caimheul1313 said:

Again, the rules you show only state when the card is revealed not resolved. And that's the problem, there exists at least one person interpreting it differently without anything in the rulebook directly contradicting them. Similarly, it could be extended to if Padme HAS to be the first unit deployed (either at all or by just player that Divulged the card) or if the player still has to option of when to deploy her. I fully believe the intention is for the player to still get to choose when to deploy her, but I could see how someone would read it as she has to be deployed immediately, similarly to the Bane tokens.

Having played against such people I agree it makes for a tiring, frustrating game. But sometimes the choice is play that person or not get a game at all for the week (not to mention not getting to spend time with any friends in the gaming group). Or in a tournament setting, you HAVE to continue the game, likely after waiting for the judge to show up to resolve the disagreement(s). If the behavior isn't stopped (due to societal constraints or the fact that the group cannot dictate who shows up for open gaming at the store) it can lead to the end of a gaming group since no one wants to risk getting paired up with them.

This is like the argument that came up with the silhouette rules, where since it didn’t give a crystal clear explanation or diagram that you could put the silhouette paper thin side against the base to make any los drawing impossible.

Have you emailed the developers for clarification yet?

1 hour ago, Shadowhawk252 said:

This is like the argument that came up with the silhouette rules, where since it didn’t give a crystal clear explanation or diagram that you could put the silhouette paper thin side against the base to make any los drawing impossible.

Have you emailed the developers for clarification yet?

I agree it is very much a similar discussion where the intention is clear, but the wording is not.
I haven't emailed since it wasn't my question initially. I suppose I could, but it really strikes me as just an oversight of wording as opposed to an actual problem.

2 hours ago, Caimheul1313 said:

Again, the rules you show only state when the card is revealed not resolved.

"If a card is divulged in this manner, resolve the text that follows the divulge keyword"

Are you actually arguing that this is unclear? Do you genuinely feel this statement is so ambiguous that you can justifiably argue that you can complete the effect of the card at a time other than when you divulge it?

Divulge and resolve, it really isn't any more complicated than that.

44 minutes ago, Mace Windu said:

"If a card is divulged in this manner, resolve the text that follows the divulge keyword"

Are you actually arguing that this is unclear? Do you genuinely feel this statement is so ambiguous that you can justifiably argue that you can complete the effect of the card at a time other than when you divulge it?

Divulge and resolve, it really isn't any more complicated than that.

Again, if we are resolving the full effect of Padme's card at a time other than when it is divulged (i.e. when she is deployed later in the Deploy Units Phase), then I could see how someone could claim that the Bane tokens similarly are fully resolved at some point later in the same phase. No where in the rules is it specified that the Bane token must be placed before moving on, despite that likely being the intent. Since the Divulge card stays in play until the end of the round, I can see how someone got confused, especially since divulge is missing a similar clarification to the Command Card rules on page 25 (which specifically deal with when the cards are played):
"» If no specific timing is provided, the effect is resolved after command cards have been revealed." This clarification is provided despite the rules also stating: "Each player resolves a command card during the Command Phase of each game round." Now, since per the RAW, each command card is resolved during the Command Phase, yet many have effects that can be used (or can only be used) later in the turn so long as the card is still in play, I could see how someone (erroneously by my interpretation) thought that since neither "I Make the Rules Now" nor the RRG specifies when exactly to place the tokens, and the card is still face up (and therefore in effect, which is how Padme gets the dodge token) until the end of the Deploy Units phase, the tokens can be placed later.


And it known to be ambiguous since that was the entire reason this thread was started. No one has been able to provide any solid rules text stating the exact timing of the Bane tokens, just "resolve," the same text applied to Padme's card which allows her to have an effect later. Most of the argument about the timing of resolve seems to be based more on experience with other games, that an effect is not resolved until it is finished, which is fine, but only works with outside knowledge. The outside knowledge doesn't innately prove a differing interpretation wrong, that's the domain of written rules. Many players when Legion first came out interpreted the rules for measuring distance as being a direct line, therefore taking relative heights into account, rather than the distance on a 2D plane that was actually intended.

Jeez this has gone on a lot longer than it really should have. Whether you think there was any grounds for confusion or not, there was confusion and it did impact games. Thankfully it has been resolved, so arguing over it doesn't really help anyone at this point.

Oh, and I did hear an official response back, chiseled in stone tablets, or at least as close to it as needed for official rules standings.

Quote

Hi Jacob,

The tokens are placed when the card is divulged, as that is when the effects of a divulged card are resolved. So, the start of the Deploy Units step.

Alex Davy

Game Designer

Fantasy Flight Games

@Alpha17 Thanks for reporting back. That's what I figured, still good to get an official response and let them know that at least one person was confused as to the timing.