Do we have an official ruling for the use of Force Push and vertical movement?

Can Force Push be used to push/pull a mini at a different vertical height if it’s in LOS and within range 1?

I can't think of any reason why that cannot be done, the card has no restriction for height.

4 minutes ago, Lemmiwinks86 said:

I can't think of any reason why that cannot be done, the card has no restriction for height.

I agree with you but there are others that strongly disagree and say it can’t be done. There are some rules as written that can be interpreted to restrict it. Really need an official FFG ruling.

9 minutes ago, drail14me said:

I agree with you but there are others that strongly disagree and say it can’t be done. There are some rules as written that can be interpreted to restrict it. Really need an official FFG ruling.

Can you quote a rule that can be interpreted like that?

1 minute ago, Lemmiwinks86 said:

Can you quote a rule that can be interpreted like that?

I can’t because I don’t interpret it that way so I really don’t understand their reasoning.

I’ve heard people argue that the vertical movement rules prohibits it as vertical movement is two movements unless the mini was in base contact with the edge of the vertical plane.

1 minute ago, drail14me said:

I can’t because I don’t interpret it that way so I really don’t understand their reasoning.

I’ve heard people argue that the vertical movement rules prohibits it as vertical movement is two movements unless the mini was in base contact with the edge of the vertical plane.

The counter-reasoning is that the card only says to choose a unit at range 1 and in line of sight, so if those 2 conditions are met, it can be used.

Do what the card says, don't do what the card doesn't say.

19 minutes ago, Lemmiwinks86 said:

The counter-reasoning is that the card only says to choose a unit at range 1 and in line of sight, so if those 2 conditions are met, it can be used.

Do what the card says, don't do what the card doesn't say.

I’m with you and agree it can be done.

Their argument is that you can’t move them down with a single speed one move. They claim that if the mini is not on the ledge then moving the mini from its position to the edge of the terrain counts as the speed one move. Moving it down the height 1 would be a second move.

26 minutes ago, drail14me said:

I’m with you and agree it can be done.

Their argument is that you can’t move them down with a single speed one move. They claim that if the mini is not on the ledge then moving the mini from its position to the edge of the terrain counts as the speed one move. Moving it down the height 1 would be a second move.

I think that I misunderstood your main question. I thought that you were saying if it was possible to use the force push to make a unit at a different height make the move, but I see now that you meant if the force push can be used to move that unit from height 1 to height 0 for example, right? That can't be done because with force push you make a speed 1-move with that unit. To change height the unit must climb or clamber and a speed 1-move isn't any of those, a speed-1 move is a standard move with a speed of 1, nothing more than that. There's nothing else special about Force push that lets you override that, it's not like Vader's Might that lets you place the unit. With push is just a standard move.

9 minutes ago, Lemmiwinks86 said:

I think that I misunderstood your main question. I thought that you were saying if it was possible to use the force push to make a unit at a different height make the move, but I see now that you meant if the force push can be used to move that unit from height 1 to height 0 for example, right? That can't be done because with force push you make a speed 1-move with that unit. To change height the unit must climb or clamber and a speed 1-move isn't any of those, a speed-1 move is a standard move with a speed of 1, nothing more than that. There's nothing else special about Force push that lets you override that, it's not like Vader's Might that lets you place the unit. With push is just a standard move.

So a unit with Offensive Push would get an Aim Token if Force Pushed by Vader?

4 minutes ago, drail14me said:

So a unit with Offensive Push would get an Aim Token if Force Pushed by Vader?

Yep. And a unit with Agile would get a dodge. Its kind of dumb. They should have worded Tactical and Agile to trigger on a Move action instead of on any standard move.

8 minutes ago, drail14me said:

So a unit with Offensive Push would get an Aim Token if Force Pushed by Vader?

If Vader's controler wants it, then yes. The decision of using Offensive Push is from the one making the move, so if you make a move with an enemy unit you can choose to use Offensive Push or not.

3 minutes ago, Lemmiwinks86 said:

If Vader's controler wants it, then yes. The decision of using Offensive Push is from the one making the move, so if you make a move with an enemy unit you can choose to use Offensive Push or not.

Force Push just seems to be a perfect example of rules as written and interpreted violating the spirit of the game and lore.

1 hour ago, drail14me said:

Force Push just seems to be a perfect example of rules as written and interpreted violating the spirit of the game and lore.

It was written way back in the core set, so it was hard for them to predict all of the future interactions. They could just make a blanket ruling on all "involuntary moves" to patch up the rules weirdness there.

One of the things I would love to see in a second edition is more language demarcation. Right now we have a Move action, a standard move and all the other things considered "non-standard moves" It would have been better to give them all distinct names instead of variations on "Move" it creates weird questions and interactions. Same goes for "Attack action" and "perform an attack".

17 hours ago, drail14me said:

Force Push just seems to be a perfect example of rules as written and interpreted violating the spirit of the game and lore.

To be fair, people used to use Force Push to throw units off of buildings and push them off the battlefield, but the developers later ruled that neither of those were legal. So the current usage is Rules as Intended.

9 minutes ago, Lochlan said:

To be fair, people used to use Force Push to throw units off of buildings and push them off the battlefield, but the developers later ruled that neither of those were legal. So the current usage is Rules as Intended.

Which still feels a bit wrong after using Force Push in so many games to send enemies plummeting. But I understand it was a balance issue.

I guess you're safe from Vader's force powers when you have the high ground!

21 hours ago, Lochlan said:

To be fair, people used to use Force Push to throw units off of buildings and push them off the battlefield, but the developers later ruled that neither of those were legal. So the current usage is Rules as Intended.

Not quite. Using it to move them off the battlefield was perfectly within the rules, and they eventually changed it. There's no indication it was even NOT intended to be used that way, they just changed their minds. Moving them off buildings was never in any way using the card according to the rules.

9 hours ago, arnoldrew said:

Moving them off buildings was never in any way using the card according to the rules.

Move X was not defined back in the days so also cliff pushing was at least arguable.

28 minutes ago, SailorMeni said:

Move X was not defined back in the days so also cliff pushing was at least arguable.

Huh? "Move X" is not a thing. We've had speed-x moves since day one. It's never been within the realm of legality.

Sorry, I meant speed X moves. They were not as clearly defined as they are now.