1 hour ago, Truthiness said:

This thread is STILL GOING?! Goodness people, it's a simple cost saving measure. Oh no, cards are bigger! The world is ending! Seriously, find something actually useful to care about. Seeing as most game companies not named Games Workshop routinely struggle, I think saving some production cost is forgivable. I for one would rather have games than, you know...not. I'll never have sympathy for customers of luxury game. It is the whitest of entitlement. I will care about their employees being abused all day long, which I very much hold against Asmodee after the lay offs. Where was this outrage over the lay offs? But card size? Really? Get over it.

So what you're saying is...

Businesses have to make money?

I don't know how this change went down, but I'm guessing it went something like this:

"So I really love the new card additions on the left and right"

"Oh great! Yeah I like the look it give us for new cards, all the while keeping rules text to a minimum."

"Yeah, well, speaking of space, I'm a little worried that the new icons are hard to read on mini cards."

"Hmm...well, I guess with new rules changes, point changes maybe this is the time to change upgrade card sizes"

Or maybe they were looking to nail us all for thirty bucks for like 300 cards because that makes a lot of sense.

15 minutes ago, CaribbeanNinja said:

I don't know how this change went down, but I'm guessing it went something like this:

"So I really love the new card additions on the left and right"

"Oh great! Yeah I like the look it give us for new cards, all the while keeping rules text to a minimum."

"Yeah, well, speaking of space, I'm a little worried that the new icons are hard to read on mini cards."

"Hmm...well, I guess with new rules changes, point changes maybe this is the time to change upgrade card sizes"

Or maybe they were looking to nail us all for thirty bucks for like 300 cards because that makes a lot of sense.

Tell a Magic Player you can get 300 cards for $30 bucks, including copies of the best cards in the game, and see what happens

2 hours ago, Alzer said:

As for card sizes saving money, I suppose that depends on how many card-printers they have at the factories. If they can have one dedicated for small, medium, large/tarot whatever, sure, but if they don't then not having to adjust settings on the cutters would at the very least save time (which I hear equates to money).

All three card sizes could run through the same printer(s), but then each printed sheet would be cut differently based on what's on it. They could go from one printer to one cutter, but changing die plates when appropriate. I've only seen "settings" on things like business card cutters, while a die would have the rounded corners as part of the design. Example of die-cutting sheets of cards, although this machine looks like it's for a fixed size: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ahYfhBy70Jk

Edit: here's another example, this one's cutting playing cards too: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i9VNsDxFO2c and according to the comments the die can be swapped, and costs about $375 per die.

2 hours ago, geek19 said:

Sheep! He called us sheep! We got a Bingo! Baaaaaa baaaa baaaaaa!

Ewe can't be serious? 🤨

1 hour ago, Mad Cat said:

Ewe can't be serious? 🤨

Combleatly shearious.

Got my pre-order today and it's fine... haters gonna hate smh.

1 hour ago, The Jabbawookie said:

Got my pre-order today and it's fine... haters gonna hate smh.

You can't see it because of the Gladiator, but spoilers: the bigger Leia's card, the lower her point cost.

Someone mentioned Magic earlier, and now I almost want an "Unglued" wave of joke ships and/or cards. Rockets strapped to a sandcrawler for a whole new Jawa faction or something.

2 hours ago, The Jabbawookie said:

Got my pre-order today and it's fine... haters gonna hate smh.

What about the mini american Ship cards?

Here we go...again!

Big nurses have to mate monkeys... 🙉

(Am I doing it right?)

9 hours ago, FreakinUnoriginal said:

All three card sizes could run through the same printer(s), but then each printed sheet would be cut differently based on what's on it. They could go from one printer to one cutter, but changing die plates when appropriate. I've only seen "settings" on things like business card cutters, while a die would have the rounded corners as part of the design. Example of die-cutting sheets of cards, although this machine looks like it's for a fixed size: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ahYfhBy70Jk

Edit: here's another example, this one's cutting playing cards too: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i9VNsDxFO2c and according to the comments the die can be swapped, and costs about $375 per die.

And since American Mini cutters already exist... and they're very much reusable...

I just don't understand how some people can say this is a cost saving measure. You stop using something you already have, and start using far more paper (and ink) to print fewer cards. It's more likely that they just wanted to include more stuff on cards and didn't want to bother with Mini.

2 minutes ago, Petersaber said:

And since American Mini cutters already exist... and they're very much reusable...

Swapping dies still takes time and means that machine can't be used for other order types until it's swapped back. The print service would likely print the sheets, sort them, and then send each batch to a cutter once enough other requests for similar sizes justifies swapping the die to one appropriate for that batch. In this scenario, standard gets cut most quickly because that's probably the most common size (out of all the printer's customers' orders, not just Asmodee's orders) while mini and tarot wait until it's reasonable (or necessary) to swap the die on however many machines it'll take to balance orders waiting for standard size cutting vs. other size cutting.

Raw material cost is not going to be a motivating factor, but turnaround time can affect how long incomplete product is waiting for one of the sizes to finish before packing, or how quickly prints can be ordered. If FFG wants to more rapidly release products and/or react more quickly to demand, a less complex product might achieve that without having to consider expedited order costs.

somebody needs to now create the smaller card expansion pack for when the new card expansion pack comes out.. I for one would buy it. just please try and make the font as large as possible!!!

45 minutes ago, Wayne Argabright said:

somebody needs to now create the smaller card expansion pack for when the new card expansion pack comes out.. I for one would buy it. just please try and make the font as large as possible!!!

I already have a template ready (see one of previous posts ), I'm just waiting for high-res art (and unreleased cards). I also have access to a professional printer. I'll be printing cards for people who want them. Not for free, but most likely close to at cost.

1 hour ago, FreakinUnoriginal said:

Swapping dies still takes time and means that machine can't be used for other order types until it's swapped back. The print service would likely print the sheets, sort them, and then send each batch to a cutter once enough other requests for similar sizes justifies swapping the die to one appropriate for that batch. In this scenario, standard gets cut most quickly because that's probably the most common size (out of all the printer's customers' orders, not just Asmodee's orders) while mini and tarot wait until it's reasonable (or necessary) to swap the die on however many machines it'll take to balance orders waiting for standard size cutting vs. other size cutting.

Raw material cost is not going to be a motivating factor, but turnaround time can affect how long incomplete product is waiting for one of the sizes to finish before packing, or how quickly prints can be ordered. If FFG wants to more rapidly release products and/or react more quickly to demand, a less complex product might achieve that without having to consider expedited order costs.

AFAIR FFG has dedicated Tarot and Mini lines. And Minis aren't going anywhere yet - Legion, remember? Plus, swapping cutters takes what, a minute? Even if they even *are* swapping anything... which I doubt...

Also, throwing out Tarot and Mini cutters means no reprints for waves 1-8. Do you really think that's going to happen? Or is there going to be a re-release?

3 hours ago, Petersaber said:

And since American Mini cutters already exist... and they're very much reusable...

I just don't understand how some people can say this is a cost saving measure. You stop using something you already have, and start using far more paper (and ink) to print fewer cards. It's more likely that they just wanted to include more stuff on cards and didn't want to bother with Mini.

I think you just have to accept the fact that standardisation will give allot of synergistic effects, from design up until packaging and distribution. I'm inclined to believe FFG when they say it will save money in the end for them to go this way. Time is money... usually allot of saved money.

I do understand if some people don't like bigger cards... I prefer the smaller cards as it is easier for me to handle them. They are easier to store and take less space on the table. On the other hand I don't think it is a big deal in the long run or that it will impact me wanting to play the game in any negative way.

I'm also of the opinion you don't need to have all the cards fully displayed by each ship... in general the art and title is enough for most cards and then you can fully display the cards that you need to exhaust. If you need to read the rules text for some reason you can always reveal that card temporarily to do so. I don't believe this will take much more space than previously.

3 hours ago, Petersaber said:

Also, throwing out Tarot and Mini cutters means no reprints for waves 1-8. Do you really think that's going to happen? Or is there going to be a re-release?

I doubt a full rerelease, but far more likely new reprints just ship with larger errata'd cards.

5 hours ago, Petersaber said:

AFAIR FFG has dedicated Tarot and Mini lines.

Does FFG do their own printing? Asmodee only lists studios, warehouses and offices; unless I missed something it doesn't look like they handle any of their own manufacturing.

From their Print Production Manager's job description (emphasis mine): "The Print Production Manager is responsible for the timely delivery of art files to contract manufacturers based all over the world." It's also not an FFG-specific role although it's based out of Roseville.

On 9/2/2020 at 11:25 AM, FreakinUnoriginal said:

Does FFG do their own printing? Asmodee only lists studios, warehouses and offices; unless I missed something it doesn't look like they handle any of their own manufacturing.

From their Print Production Manager's job description (emphasis mine): "The Print Production Manager is responsible for the timely delivery of art files to contract manufacturers based all over the world." It's also not an FFG-specific role although it's based out of Roseville.

Product Printing, no.

They *do* Print the Alt Arts for Prizes in-House, however.

Its one of the reasons why cards in product are Nicely Expensively Linen finished, whereas the Alt Arts are flat Semi-Glossed.

Some limited in-house production is done.

17 hours ago, Drasnighta said:

Product Printing, no.

They *do* Print the Alt Arts for Prizes in-House, however.

Its one of the reasons why cards in product are Nicely Expensively Linen finished, whereas the Alt Arts are flat Semi-Glossed.

Some limited in-house production is done.

Which means they have all cutters already ready, as we've had all three sizes of promo cards.

So this thread is still going.

FFG made the decision to change Star Wars: Armada upgrade card sizes.

Probably because it was somehow profitable, *maybe* because they thought players would embrace the change hahahahaha...as though we'll ever be happy about a change. Fools!

It certainly seems like these 9 pages detailing the community reaction show where people stand.

Because businesses don't tend to actively make changes to their product on a lark, there is most likely a reason.

Maybe it's a good reason. Maybe it's terrible. None of us are privy to the rationale.

Nor will we ever get to know, regardless of whether or not we own a card printer or worked for a publisher or are possessed by the ghost of Gutenberg.

There is no "eureka" moment to validate or invalidate anything. It happened, and the feedback is here.

I hear you, @Petersaber , your complaints are reasonable. I'd love to order some of those awesome-looking mini cards.

Learn to let go, you must.

3 hours ago, Petersaber said:

Which means they have all cutters already ready, as we've had all three sizes of promo cards.

Doesn’t mean they don’t want to stop going through the hassle - however minimum - in changing them out if they don’t have to anymore.

“We have them, so let’s use them.”

vs.

“nah, just design everything one size and we only have to deal with one set of cutting dies from this point on, even if it takes 30 minutes to change out.”

that seems easy to see From a cost cutting measure.

Heck, my previous work has cut less time from projects to save money.

(Telstra once cut 2 seconds from call-pause time between calls in their call Center, because it would save money by enabling more calls overall.)

On 9/2/2020 at 4:22 AM, The Jabbawookie said:

Got my pre-order today and it's fine... haters gonna hate smh.

Love Leia Darklighter.

12 hours ago, Petersaber said:

Which means they have all cutters already ready, as we've had all three sizes of promo cards.

In the capacity to make tournament kits, and it was probably originally purchased for prototyping. I doubt they crammed enough cutters in their office to do production runs (heck, maybe just one cutter and a set of dies - those machines are $100k starting). Whatever workflow they follow when using the office printers/cutters has little bearing on how they get actual product from the contracted printers, which I've speculated on previously .

A little Image to better express why I don't like the FFG choice of making upgrade cards standard sized. ( 9'x4' table)

the thing is I Like to play large game and I was expecting to eventually play massive clone wars confrontation. Now every clone war stuff will come with those squadron sized upgrade and this part is anoying. The Upgrade card pack itself don't bother me that much as I was going to buy it only to get some extra upgrades (I will just skip this one).