1 hour ago, GhostofNobodyInParticular said:As for whom to vote for, I am leaning Mad or Bertie. Mad because, as he himself said, he's a good shot in the dark, as well as for suggesting sharing submitted roles, Bertie for being fine with revealing even town roles. Both the reads are weak, however.
The anon vote is a good shot in the dark. You’d be voting with more to go on.
1 hour ago, GhostofNobodyInParticular said:Wow, I didn't realize this day was so short. 5 hours left?
I am against the sharing of roles, being in agreement with the arguments laid out above. Scum do not need to be certain a role exists to change their behavior. Right now they have no idea what is out there, and so must act as if everything might. Should people start revealing the roles they submitted, scum will know what not to expect, and that can be very useful. Additionally, with regard to Mad's wish to only reveal scum roles, the issues there are that 1) scum could be lying and saying roles that don't exist, which is especially an issue if scum as a team got roles they submitted, 2) there may be a decent number of roles that were not submitted with an alignment, and 3) Having a pool of roles narrows our focus. If we assume some are lies, the whole pool is suspect and the exercise is a waste of time. If we assume that all are real, then we may be decieved and tunnel-vision our way to defeat, as has happened in the past. Thus revealing any submitted roles, even only scum ones, hurts town more than scum.
As for whom to vote for, I am leaning Mad or Bertie. Mad because, as he himself said, he's a good shot in the dark, as well as for suggesting sharing submitted roles, Bertie for being fine with revealing even town roles. Both the reads are weak, however.
Well you've convinced me. Clearly I didn't think that one all the way through.
13 minutes ago, Madaghmire said:The anon vote is a good shot in the dark. You’d be voting with more to go on.
Given the weakness of my reads, it'd still be largely a shot in the dark.
33 minutes ago, GhostofNobodyInParticular said:Given the weakness of my reads, it'd still be largely a shot in the dark.
day 1 is always a shot in the dark unless someone says "I'm scum"
1 minute ago, EbonHawk said:day 1 is always a shot in the dark unless someone says "I'm scum"
I know.
Time is running short, and I feel I need to vote. I am suspicious of ovi, but not so much that I shall vote for him yet. Ebon seems to have voted ovi, yet hasn't made sure his unvote was proper, indicating that he could actually still be voting me. Wouldn't a townie want to make sure his vote is where he thought it was? Despite all that, I think I shall
##vote @Madaghmire
because if he is scum he is too dangerous to be left alive, and at the moment, that seems about as good a reason as any I have at the moment (for the record, I don't think it's a good reason, it's just that all the rest of mine are on par with it).
I'm not sure if Matt and Ghost are being honest or they really try to shade me twisting my words.
I was clear. I said I do not submitted scum roles so trying to point out that I submitted and OP scum role after being assigned scum without acknowledging that I could still be town so the hypothetical OP scum role could come before I got an alignment, cause even the quoted (and misunderstood) piece didn't specify the order of the roles I submitted.
You all may check the order of facts here.
I'm gonna go with my guts.
##unvote jabbawookie
##vote Matt3412
I'm fine if you want to call it a retaliatory vote. To me it was someone that didn't take the time to read through and just jumped on whatever chance he got. That's scum or poor town play.
2 hours ago, Caldias said:@PodRacer if a role is submitted as a certain alignment does it necessarily have to stay that certain alignment when you assign them?
Negative
VC
Mad (2) anon, Gnip
Ovi (1) Matt
Matt (2) ebon Ovi
Ebon (1) anon
With 9 alive 5 to lynch
*Mod decision*
Two hours have been added to the first day
Day one will now end in two hours and fifty minutes.
Edited by PodRacer
Time check?
Nevermind lol
On 12/22/2019 at 3:12 PM, Matt3412 said:##role confirmed
8 hours ago, Matt3412 said:This is getting wild already
5 hours ago, Matt3412 said:i submitted something to do with needing to go to the bathroom quite often and something that has pointy ears and up to no good. Both of witch are the same alignment as I.
Not sure why he reveals this...at this point we hadn't come to an agreement yet on whether it would be a good idea to reveal or not. Really seems like jumping the gun.
3 hours ago, Matt3412 said:##Vote @ovinomanc3r
Second role was submitted after people got alignment. only reason to submit a broken Scum role second is if you were scum.
Seems like he's misunderstanding ovi, ovi was pretty clear that he meant his role would be "broken as scum" if faction was changed.
3 hours ago, Matt3412 said:I read this statement in 2 ways
1) Broken=Overpowered on the scum roles. This leads me to think you are scum
2) Useless as town=why give town bad roles if town. This leads me to think you are scum
I sorta see what he means here--why submit a nearly useless town role? So I'm a little leery of ovi too. Especially since ovi seemed to change his answer when pushed.
I'm leaning Matt, but a little suspicious of ovi.
##vote Matt3412
I see a couple of issues;
The reasoning behind Matts vote on Ovi. Matt says its about how Ovi submitted two broke scum roles, except what he actually said was he submitted two middling town roles. Ovi’s statement is that he didn’t submit any scum roles. Which would lead one to believe he’s town, given the timing. He could of course be lying about that, but then we’re making odd choices about what we believe from Ovi.
4 hours ago, ovinomanc3r said:Ah, ok, that's different and makes more sense.
I didn't submitted a scum role so can't help there.
As I was collecting this, Bertie posted more of a break down above that mirrors what I was about to say anyway.
Then there’s ghosts vote on me.
1 hour ago, GhostofNobodyInParticular said:I know.
Time is running short, and I feel I need to vote. I am suspicious of ovi, but not so much that I shall vote for him yet. Ebon seems to have voted ovi, yet hasn't made sure his unvote was proper, indicating that he could actually still be voting me. Wouldn't a townie want to make sure his vote is where he thought it was? Despite all that, I think I shall
##vote @Madaghmire
because if he is scum he is too dangerous to be left alive, and at the moment, that seems about as good a reason as any I have at the moment (for the record, I don't think it's a good reason, it's just that all the rest of mine are on par with it).
I mean, what about Cal? He’s just as good a target if this is your reasoning, but you don’t even mention him. Just because I had a random anon vote? I may like that vote as town, but this follow up seems opportunistic. And by equivocating so much, it feels like you’re defending your choice before we even see the result. What about the whole thing with Matt? Why do you like Ovi as scum more?
*more than Matt
15 minutes ago, Bertie Wooster said:I sorta see what he means here--why submit a nearly useless town role? So I'm a little leery of ovi too. Especially since ovi seemed to change his answer when pushed.
Did I?
4 minutes ago, Madaghmire said:I mean, what about Cal? He’s just as good a target if this is your reasoning, but you don’t even mention him. Just because I had a random anon vote? I may like that vote as town, but this follow up seems opportunistic. And by equivocating so much, it feels like you’re defending your choice before we even see the result. What about the whole thing with Matt? Why do you like Ovi as scum more?
Cal was against revealing roles from the start, you brought up the suggestion. Hence, I am more willing to vote you than him. As for the ovi matt thing, I was in the same boat as Matt. I first misinterpreted what ovi had posted. However, in the time it took me to compose my response, I realized my error and corrected myself. Thus, I can see where matt might have gone wrong, and am therefore less inclined to think he was intentionally stretching a point. Ovi I am more suspicious of due to the incoherence of his response, in so far as that his answers were never complete, and led therefore to more misunderstandings, which may have been him making it up on the spot. I do not think that that interpretation is likely enough to warrant a vote, but it is is still possible enough for me to keep an eye on him.
I'm happy where I stand, buy bust evening "AH, Mando" incoming so will be patchy
2 minutes ago, GhostofNobodyInParticular said:Cal was against revealing roles from the start, you brought up the suggestion. Hence, I am more willing to vote you than him. As for the ovi matt thing, I was in the same boat as Matt. I first misinterpreted what ovi had posted. However, in the time it took me to compose my response, I realized my error and corrected myself. Thus, I can see where matt might have gone wrong, and am therefore less inclined to think he was intentionally stretching a point. Ovi I am more suspicious of due to the incoherence of his response, in so far as that his answers were never complete, and led therefore to more misunderstandings, which may have been him making it up on the spot. I do not think that that interpretation is likely enough to warrant a vote, but it is is still possible enough for me to keep an eye on him.
Incoherence? Ok now I'm completely lost.
What I said so far.
1. I don't think to share roles is a good idea.
2. I didn't submitted scum roles.
3. I think alignment may change but it will depend on the role itself. Roles I submitted would be broken if scum.
4. I submitted useless town roles for fun.
Did I miss something?
5 minutes ago, ovinomanc3r said:Did I?
4 hours ago, ovinomanc3r said:I guess it will depend on the role itself. Both I submitted had little to none reason to be switched unless you modify the role itself. Utterly useless as town, completely broken as scum.
3 hours ago, Matt3412 said:I read this statement in 2 ways
1) Broken=Overpowered on the scum roles. This leads me to think you are scum
2) Useless as town=why give town bad roles if town. This leads me to think you are scum
3 hours ago, ovinomanc3r said:Because this is crazy mafia? And it's for fun?
To be honest it isn't utterly useful but it's not helpful or not too much.
3 hours ago, ovinomanc3r said:Useless* sorry.
3 hours ago, GhostofNobodyInParticular said:
So, you submitted a role that was uttely useless to town, yet did not submit any scum roles?
I assume the 'utterly useless, completely broken' refer to two different roles, presumably in the order they were submitted. So either you are scum, this was a Freudian slip, and you were sabatoging town from the start, or the alignments were reversed (the first role was scum specific, and thus useless to town, the other was town specific, and thus broken if the scum got it). Should either of these interpretations be correct, you have submitted a scum role, thus directly contradicting yourself.
I think you mean the other way around?
You have to unvote properly. . . 2 ## right?
3 hours ago, ovinomanc3r said:Yes.
No. It refers to both roles. They help little to town but would be game over to town if scum.
You seemed to go back and forth a little between saying the roles are "utterly useless as town" to "not utterly useless, but not very useful" (My paraphrase. See the parts I bolded). A small difference, but a difference nonetheless.
19 minutes ago, Bertie Wooster said:
You seemed to go back and forth a little between saying the roles are "utterly useless as town" to "not utterly useless, but not very useful" (My paraphrase. See the parts I bolded). A small difference, but a difference nonetheless.
I see that as to clarify that point. They are powers so there is some utility. Honestly I find hard to call my invisible man useful. He is a ******* vanilla town that cannot be voted or killed or anything. Is that useful? It may be but he also doesn't count towards the town victory condition so, yes, he is an inmortal town but he may just be ignored by the scum party.
The other role is 3rd party and would be really really easy to backfire if town.
Would be they useful? I guess in the right hands but IMHO one is basically a vanilla town and the other may do things really fast for scum.
Anyway I think that's far from being incoherent, I kept my word on the utility of the roles. They're not helpful. I also may have confused "being little helpful" with "being a little helpful", I'm never sure which one is meant "positive" and one "negative".
Just now, ovinomanc3r said:I see that as to clarify that point. They are powers so there is some utility. Honestly I find hard to call my invisible man useful. He is a ******* vanilla town that cannot be voted or killed or anything. Is that useful? It may be but he also doesn't count towards the town victory condition so, yes, he is an inmortal town but he may just be ignored by the scum party.
The other role is 3rd party and would be really really easy to backfire if town.
Would be they useful? I guess in the right hands but IMHO one is basically a vanilla town and the other may do things really fast for scum.
Anyway I think that's far from being incoherent, I kept my word on the utility of the roles. They're not helpful. I also may have confused "being little helpful" with "being a little helpful", I'm never sure which one is meant "positive" and one "negative".
I'm buying ovi as town on gut, but D1 so I could be off
30 minutes ago, ovinomanc3r said:Incoherence? Ok now I'm completely lost.
What I said so far.
1. I don't think to share roles is a good idea.
2. I didn't submitted scum roles.
3. I think alignment may change but it will depend on the role itself. Roles I submitted would be broken if scum.
4. I submitted useless town roles for fun.
Did I miss something?
Overall, you are coherent. However, your individual posts were not complete answers, and thus, whilst your overall response, as seen once all the posts are compiled, is indeed coherent, your posts individually were not, and that led to confusion.
1 minute ago, GhostofNobodyInParticular said:Overall, you are coherent. However, your individual posts were not complete answers, and thus, whilst your overall response, as seen once all the posts are compiled, is indeed coherent, your posts individually were not, and that led to confusion.
Whatever; don't get me wrong, I'm fine with being pursued. That at least means we get info and people engage in meaningful conversation. Otherwise d1 becomes a waste of time.
VC
Mad (2) anon, Gnip
Ovi (1) Matt
Matt (4) ebon Ovi Bertie anon
72 minutes remaining
With 9 alive 5 to lynch
Edited by PodRacer4 minutes ago, PodRacer said:VC
Mad (2) anon, Gnip
Ovi (1) Matt
Matt (3) ebon Ovi anon
72 minutes remaining
With 9 alive 5 to lynch
I voted Matt before anon did, give me some credit.
Fixed