On 12/2/2019 at 6:56 PM, P-47 Thunderbolt said:

To fire, the character designates a number of targets up to remaining ammo and makes an Average Computers check (with the attack difficulty of the toughest opponent). If they hit, they can spend 1 Advantage to trigger a hit on a designated target.

This would mean that the Mandalorian would have needed a roll of 2s3a to take out all 4 Starmtroopers.

In game terms, he could have been facing a minion group and just rolled really well. A weapon with a high enough Pierce or Breach would mean he only needed to do 20 wounds. Or, given the blast quality, only needed to do 5ish wounds to each.

On 11/22/2019 at 5:32 PM, P-47 Thunderbolt said:

Repulsor Blast:
(Custom) Vambrace Attachment: (Ranged [Light]; Damage - ; Critical - ; Range [Short]; Concussive 1, Disorient 3, Knockdown, Slow-Firing 2. 650/8. (Think what Sabine had in Rebels)

I'm revisiting this and thinking of changing it so that you can use it to disengage from your opponent. It also could use a buff to make success more useful, so I'm thinking about that too.

I've got a few thoughts on this. One, all, none, some, tweak, or what?

1. Spend X Advantage/Threat generated on a melee check (attacking/being attacked) to disengage from opponent as an incidental. Spend Triumph/Despair to knock them prone. The weapon counts as firing this round. (Cannot be used with a two-handed weapon).

2. On success, disengage automatically.

3. Change base damage, but add Stun Damage quality. Not sure of base damage for this, maybe 3?

4. Maybe change it to Slow-Firing 1?

20 hours ago, P-47 Thunderbolt said:

I'm revisiting this and thinking of changing it so that you can use it to disengage from your opponent. It also could use a buff to make success more useful, so I'm thinking about that too.

I've got a few thoughts on this. One, all, none, some, tweak, or what?

1. Spend X Advantage/Threat generated on a melee check (attacking/being attacked) to disengage from opponent as an incidental. Spend Triumph/Despair to knock them prone. The weapon counts as firing this round. (Cannot be used with a two-handed weapon).

2. On success, disengage automatically.

3. Change base damage, but add Stun Damage quality. Not sure of base damage for this, maybe 3?

4. Maybe change it to Slow-Firing 1?

Take a look at the talent in rhe seee spec as a potential template.

13 hours ago, Daeglan said:

Take a look at the talent in rhe seee spec as a potential template.

No idea what you meant.

14 minutes ago, P-47 Thunderbolt said:

No idea what you meant.

there is a talent in the seer tree that does what you are suggesting. take a look at it for a template.

5 minutes ago, Daeglan said:

there is a talent in the seer tree that does what you are suggesting. take a look at it for a template.

Ah, okay. The typos threw me off.

6 minutes ago, Daeglan said:

there is a talent in the seer tree that does what you are suggesting. take a look at it for a template.

I disagree, it allows you to disengage before the attack, and requires a Destiny Point. I think it's probably better served by being an effect after the attack, off of Threat.

On 7/1/2020 at 12:32 AM, P-47 Thunderbolt said:

I'm revisiting this and thinking of changing it so that you can use it to disengage from your opponent. It also could use a buff to make success more useful, so I'm thinking about that too.

I've got a few thoughts on this. One, all, none, some, tweak, or what?

1. Spend X Advantage/Threat generated on a melee check (attacking/being attacked) to disengage from opponent as an incidental. Spend Triumph/Despair to knock them prone. The weapon counts as firing this round. (Cannot be used with a two-handed weapon).

2. On success, disengage automatically.

3. Change base damage, but add Stun Damage quality. Not sure of base damage for this, maybe 3?

4. Maybe change it to Slow-Firing 1?

2 shouldn't go with 1, so either drop 2 or change 1 to remove the option for two Advantage. I'm of two minds about it because 2 Advantage would allow you to disengage as a Maneuver anyway, and you could use that 2 Advantage to trigger Knockdown, but it also makes sense for it to cost Advantage to disengage as an incidental.
However, 2 Threat also allows you to take an OOT Maneuver which would be used to disengage, but 1 Threat seems like too little. Any ideas here? Strain cost maybe? 2 Strain to disengage as an OOT incidental after a melee attack?

Perhaps ignore 3, and drop the two Advantage option from 1?

@CloudyLemonade92 , @GameboyAK , I know you two like this sort of thing... Any ideas?

On 6/30/2020 at 8:32 PM, P-47 Thunderbolt said:

Repulsor Blast:
(Custom) Vambrace Attachment: (Ranged [Light]; Damage - ; Critical - ; Range [Short]; Concussive 1, Disorient 3, Knockdown, Slow-Firing 2. 650/8. (Think what Sabine had in Rebels)

I'm not sure how I feel about this weapon being short range rather than engaged. I've always seen it as a defensive option, but with it going out to short, I can see tons of offensive use with no penalty.

4 hours ago, P-47 Thunderbolt said:

1. Spend X Advantage/Threat generated on a melee check (attacking/being attacked) to disengage from opponent as an incidental. Spend Triumph/Despair to knock them prone. The weapon counts as firing this round. (Cannot be used with a two-handed weapon).

2. On success, disengage automatically.

3. Change base damage, but add Stun Damage quality. Not sure of base damage for this, maybe 3?

4. Maybe change it to Slow-Firing 1?

4 hours ago, P-47 Thunderbolt said:

2 shouldn't go with 1, so either drop 2 or change 1 to remove the option for two Advantage. I'm of two minds about it because 2 Advantage would allow you to disengage as a Maneuver anyway, and you could use that 2 Advantage to trigger Knockdown, but it also makes sense for it to cost Advantage to disengage as an incidental.
However, 2 Threat also allows you to take an OOT Maneuver which would be used to disengage, but 1 Threat seems like too little. Any ideas here? Strain cost maybe? 2 Strain to disengage as an OOT incidental after a melee attack?

Perhaps ignore 3, and drop the two Advantage option from 1?

There is a lot going on with this sort of weapon, which runs the risk of being overloaded (by which I mean a lot to remember at one time for both GM and player, which tends to get overlooked a lot in favor of simpler/straightforward equipment). So, lets trim the fat a bit to get to the core purpose.

As shown in Rebels, it appears to primarily be a tool for two purposes. A) Put distance between two melee fighters to allow one to gain the upper hand temporarily or B) to put distance between the two fighters so one can use ranged weapons effectively.

In comparison with the rest of the tools, I would personally say Slow Firing 2 would be the lowest I would go. Having 8t at Slow Firing 1 encourages spamming it in tandem with Concussive to prevent any sort of melee fighter of standing a chance without having the Hard Headed talent. SF 2 would allow the melee fighter against this to have a chance at counter play while still having it be a real threat, but I would up it to 3 personally just to allow a wider gap between uses.

As for the actual disengagement mechanics, its gonna be tricky no matter what. I like what you've done for the most part and think that's probably the closest generally you can get without further playtesting.

Here is my personal take:

Repulsor Blast:
(Custom) Vambrace Attachment: (Ranged [Light]; Damage - ; Critical - ; Range [Engaged]; Concussive 1, Disorient 3, Knockdown, Slow-Firing 3. 650/8.

Spend 2 Advantage on Ranged [Light] to allow user to disengage from target as an incidental. This effect can also be triggered by spending 3 Threat from a melee attack targeting the user. A Triumph/Despair can also be used to activate Knockdown.

On a completely unrelated note, for the actual vambraces, I might suggest including a special rule for Sunder where damaging the vambrace also damages all attached weapons one step.

2 hours ago, GameboyAK said:

On a completely unrelated note, for the actual vambraces, I might suggest including a special rule for Sunder where damaging the vambrace also damages all attached weapons one step.

That makes sense. I'll use that. Hadn't actually thought about that before, but because of how the Vambraces are treated I might have done that anyway if it had come up. Thanks.
Alternatively, the first step damages one weapon into uselessness. I think I'd stick to "all damaged one" though.

2 hours ago, GameboyAK said:

Repulsor Blast:
(Custom) Vambrace Attachment: (Ranged [Light]; Damage - ; Critical - ; Range [Engaged]; Concussive 1, Disorient 3, Knockdown, Slow-Firing 3. 650/8.

Spend 2 Advantage on Ranged [Light] to allow user to disengage from target as an incidental. This effect can also be triggered by spending 3 Threat from a melee attack targeting the user. A Triumph/Despair can also be used to activate Knockdown.

I think Slow-Firing 3 is too much, and 3 Threat to disengage is definitely too much because 2 Threat can be spent for a Free Maneuver to disengage.* That's why I'm thinking a Strain cost might be in order. The Despair effect is fine, but Knockdown doesn't have to cost a Triumph.

With Slow-Firing 1, they can only deny every other turn, and do 0 damage. (gears turning...) With backup, this can have a pretty good effect though, so the point is taken. I haven't really had any experience with Concussive in play, so I'll defer to you on this. Still think SF3 is too much, so SF2 for now.

However, this still leaves the question of what to do with extra Success. So much of this weapon keys off of Advantage that I'm wondering if it wouldn't be better to make the base effect function off of Success, then stacking on effects like Concussive, Disorient, and Knockdown.

*There are a couple fringe cases where this would be useful, but fringe enough that having a particular piece of gear set up to counter them seems a bit... pointless.

Applicable clip at ~0:50:

12 minutes ago, P-47 Thunderbolt said:

I think Slow-Firing 3 is too much, and 3 Threat to disengage is definitely too much because 2 Threat can be spent for a Free Maneuver to disengage.* That's why I'm thinking a Strain cost might be in order. The Despair effect is fine, but Knockdown doesn't have to cost a Triumph.

I can see the argument for Slow Firing 2, and its a fair compromise. I just know in single combat (where this weapon shines), having it fired once every three rounds is pretty often for how powerful it can be on a relatively nimble opponent with any sort of extra movement (jetpack, rocket boots, force jump etc). To me, its a last resort or ace-in-the-hole tool, meant to get someone off balance to either gain a permanent edge or quickly end a fight, hence the SF 3.

As for the threat, I think 3 is fine with defense ratings, talents, and additional setback, a melee attack attack generating that number is faidly common, as well as the fact that, yes, two can be used as a Maneuver (which you only get two of in a round) vs an incidental (which you can technically have an unlimited number of, and is more valuable at that rate as it allows more movement, talents, aiming etc). It just requires the player to actively use their talents to stack the dice in their favor, which they already should be. Not to mention, a Despair can already technically trigger this as well.

6 minutes ago, GameboyAK said:

As for the threat, I think 3 is fine with defense ratings, talents, and additional setback, a melee attack attack generating that number is faidly common, as well as the fact that, yes, two can be used as a Maneuver (which you only get two of in a round ) vs an incidental (which you can technically have an unlimited number of, and is more valuable at that rate as it allows more movement, talents, aiming etc).

The Advantage/Threat table specifies for Advantage "...that does not exceed the two maneuvers per turn limit." It does not have this specification for Threat, and the use of turn rather than round further makes me think that it is not limited to two Maneuvers in a round .

23 minutes ago, P-47 Thunderbolt said:

The Advantage/Threat table specifies for Advantage "...that does not exceed the two maneuvers per turn limit." It does not have this specification for Threat, and the use of turn rather than round further makes me think that it is not limited to two Maneuvers in a round .

To me, I would apply it for both. Because someone else messing up doesn't allow for you to push your body any harder than you could naturally. With that, I still rule at my table that you cannot take more than two maneuvers in a round. But thats just my view, so you do you when it comes to something like this, but wording is key to balancing an item like this.

13 minutes ago, GameboyAK said:

To me, I would apply it for both. Because someone else messing up doesn't allow for you to push your body any harder than you could naturally. With that, I still rule at my table that you cannot take more than two maneuvers in a round. But thats just my view, so you do you when it comes to something like this, but wording is key to balancing an item like this.

I understand and somewhat agree with your position on this, but I'd stick to RAW on this for my games (especially because maneuvers can often be pretty small, and can sometimes narratively just be staggering back or diving for cover). For the purposes of building and balancing this item, let's assume you can take a theoretical third Maneuver with 2 Threat.

Repulsor blasts look like they have a similar effect to geonosian sonic weaponry. I'd keep it fairly simple and just give them low to medium stun damage, knockdown and disorient, perhaps blast even, with range limited to short, or even engaged. Concussive is a pretty rare and powerful effect that usually requires something pretty powerful weaponry (ignore sap gloves, for your own sanity). Mandalorian vambraces are cooler as a swiss army knife with a few fairly specialized, situational tricks rather than incorporating a bunch of powerful weapons. Consider how small they are; you're probably not going to cram the efficiency of a much larger weapon into them, let alone several. A good blaster pistol should probably equal or surpass most of the weapons available for the gauntlets, outside their specialized niche uses.

2 minutes ago, penpenpen said:

Repulsor blasts look like they have a similar effect to geonosian sonic weaponry. I'd keep it fairly simple and just give them low to medium stun damage, knockdown and disorient, perhaps blast even, with range limited to short, or even engaged. Concussive is a pretty rare and powerful effect that usually requires something pretty powerful weaponry (ignore sap gloves, for your own sanity). Mandalorian vambraces are cooler as a swiss army knife with a few fairly specialized, situational tricks rather than incorporating a bunch of powerful weapons. Consider how small they are; you're probably not going to cram the efficiency of a much larger weapon into them, let alone several. A good blaster pistol should probably equal or surpass most of the weapons available for the gauntlets, outside their specialized niche uses.

Some good points there.

The reason I added Concussive was to give it a use since I didn't give it any damage stat. With the current lack of a use for Success, I'm considering giving it a small base damage, the Stun Damage quality, and dropping Concussive.

As for the more general points you made regarding vambraces, this is more-or-less the current state of affairs. I've been using them in game for a little while, and they are a fallback or a specialized alternative (e.g. micro-rocket launcher) rather than a primary weapon. The PCs still have pet weapons or attacks that they favor over the vambrace weaponry. These points have made me further reconsider giving the repulsor blast Concussive.

I would keep it at Engaged range because from what we see in the slip, the ends of the blast maybe extends to 4-5 meters, and its efficacy would be greatly reduced at that range. From close up, you get the full force of the blast on a single target and that's where it would be effective.

I'm not sold on removing Concussive, but I am considering it.

@P-47 Thunderbolt take a look at the push aside talent int force adherant, moving your opponent away from you after an attack is like disengaging.

28 minutes ago, EliasWindrider said:

@P-47 Thunderbolt take a look at the push aside talent int force adherant, moving your opponent away from you after an attack is like disengaging.

That's actually just about perfect.

I'm still thinking about how to apply that and how to stat the item as a whole, but I'm definitely considering that. Does it cost anything, or is it really just a "disengage" button?

15 hours ago, P-47 Thunderbolt said:

That's actually just about perfect.

I'm still thinking about how to apply that and how to stat the item as a whole, but I'm definitely considering that. Does it cost anything, or is it really just a "disengage" button?

The talent requires a successful attack.

Here's what I'm thinking now:

Repulsor Blast:
(Custom) Vambrace Attachment: (Ranged [Light]; Damage 3; Critical - ; Range [Engaged]; Disorient 3, Knockdown, Slow-Firing 2, Stun Damage. 650/8.
Additional qualities: May spend 1 Threat or a Despair on a combat check against this character made by an engaged opponent to disengage as an incidental, and may spend an additional Despair to force them to fall prone. The weapon counts as firing this turn, and this cannot be triggered if the weapon is not ready to fire.
Mod options: 1 Innate Talent (Push Aside) Mod, 1 Item quality (Concussive +1) Mod.

Push Aside (Force Adherent): After making a successful Brawl, Melee, or Lightsaber check against an engaged foe, may force the foe to move to Short range in a direction of the opponent's choosing. Spend Triumph to cause the opponent to fall prone after moving.

I think making Concussive a mod option is a decent compromise.

Thoughts?

12 hours ago, P-47 Thunderbolt said:

Push Aside (Force Adherent): After making a successful Brawl, Melee, or Lightsaber check against an engaged foe, may force the foe to move to Short range in a direction of the opponent's choosing. Spend Triumph to cause the opponent to fall prone after moving.

I think making Concussive a mod option is a decent compromise.

Thoughts?

I like having the Concussive as the mod. My only question is having the Push Aside as a mod, does it count as the weapon firing when you activate it?

7 hours ago, GameboyAK said:

I like having the Concussive as the mod. My only question is having the Push Aside as a mod, does it count as the weapon firing when you activate it?

I think it should, but I didn't want to change the text of the talent.

I'll add a clause that any use of the weapon's abilities means it counts as firing that turn.

Repulsor Blast:
(Custom) Vambrace Attachment: (Ranged [Light]; Damage 3; Critical - ; Range [Engaged]; Disorient 3, Knockdown, Slow-Firing 2, Stun Damage. 650/8.
Additional qualities: May spend 1 Threat or a Despair on a combat check against this character made by an engaged opponent to disengage as an incidental, and may spend an additional Despair to force them to fall prone.
When any of the weapon's abilities are triggered, the weapon counts as firing this turn, and the weapon's abilities cannot be triggered if the weapon is not ready to fire.
Mod options: 1 Innate Talent (Push Aside) Mod, 1 Item quality (Concussive +1) Mod.

On 7/6/2020 at 9:28 AM, P-47 Thunderbolt said:

Repulsor Blast:
(Custom) Vambrace Attachment: (Ranged [Light]; Damage 3; Critical - ; Range [Engaged]; Disorient 3, Knockdown, Slow-Firing 2, Stun Damage. 650/8.
Additional qualities: May spend 1 Threat or a Despair on a combat check against this character made by an engaged opponent to disengage as an incidental, and may spend an additional Despair to force them to fall prone.
When any of the weapon's abilities are triggered, the weapon counts as firing this turn, and the weapon's abilities cannot be triggered if the weapon is not ready to fire.
Mod options: 1 Innate Talent (Push Aside) Mod, 1 Item quality (Concussive +1) Mod.

@GameboyAK , is this good? Worded clearly? Got any suggestions?

14 hours ago, P-47 Thunderbolt said:

@GameboyAK , is this good? Worded clearly? Got any suggestions?

Definitely would be something I'd be willing to test out the balance on for sure. I probably will still rule the disengage portion as 2 Threat, but I like it otherwise

On 7/2/2020 at 6:13 PM, GameboyAK said:

As for the threat, I think 3 is fine with defense ratings, talents, and additional setback, a melee attack attack generating that number is faidly common, as well as the fact that, yes, two can be used as a Maneuver (which you only get two of in a round) vs an incidental (which you can technically have an unlimited number of, and is more valuable at that rate as it allows more movement, talents, aiming etc).

I had forgotten this clarification (though I thought it was the case, demonstrated by my differentiation between "Turn" and "Round"), but came across it again while reading through the FaD CRB (which I finally got, managing to find it at a miraculously good price). I assume it's in the others as well, but here it is from FaD:

FaD CRB page 206. Chapter VI: Conflict and Combat. Maneuvers, Maneuvers Outside a Character's Turn.

Quote

Any bonus maneuvers gained outside of a character's turn do not count toward the aforementioned limit of two maneuvers a character may perform during his turn--specifically because they occur outside of the character's turn. These additional maneuvers are generally awarded at the providence of the GM, and thus there is no hard-and-fast limit to the number of Maneuvers that can be awarded in this manner. However, the GM would be wise to limit the number of out-of-turn maneuvers any character performs each round to one or two at most.

Revisiting these, and I realized that somehow I forgot to state that each vambrace is 1 Encumbrance. Oops.

Updated.