We were talking about the Whistling Birds in another thread, and I've statted stuff like this before, so I figured I'd start a thread for it and see what you people think.

Mandalorian Vambraces:
Armor Attachment. Each Vambrace costs 500 credits and each is capable of holding up to three of the weapons I will outline below. Whether you have one or two vambraces, they only take up 1 HP on Mandalorian armor, but on other armor they take up 1 per vambrace. Each vambrace is 1 Encumbrance, and Attachments do not increase it.

Wrist Mounted Weapon:
Weapon Attachment: See CotR page 61. (Think the blasters the Death Watch have on their wrist. That is why I included it)

Retractable Wrist Blades:
Armor (Vambrace) Attachment: See CotR page 63. (remove mod options)

Portable Plasma Shield:
Armor (Vambrace) Attachment: See CotR page 63. (reduce mod options to "1 Item Quality [Deflection +1] Mod" and reduce price to 1,500 credits)

Micro-Rocket Launcher:
Armor (Vambrace) Attachment: See CotR page 62. (reduce mod options to "1 Remove a Setback from checks to fire micro-rockets from this attachment Mod")

Whipcord Thrower:
Armor (Vambrace) Attachment: See CotR page 63.

Compact Flame Projector:
Armor (Vambrace) Attachment: (Ranged [Light]; Damage 5; Critical 2; Range [Short]; Blast 2, Burn 2, Pierce 2, Vicious 3) (R) 750/8. The stats are from official NPCs, the price is conjecture.

Repulsor Blast:
(Custom) Vambrace Attachment: (Ranged [Light]; Damage 3; Critical - ; Range [Engaged]; Disorient 3, Knockdown, Slow-Firing 2, Stun Damage. 650/8.
Additional qualities: May spend 1 Threat or a Despair on a combat check against this character made by an engaged opponent to disengage as an incidental, and may spend an additional Despair to force them to fall prone.
When any of the weapon's abilities are triggered, the weapon counts as firing this turn, and the weapon's abilities cannot be triggered if the weapon is not ready to fire.
Mod options: 1 Innate Talent (Push Aside) Mod, 1 Item quality (Concussive +1) Mod. (Think what Sabine had in Rebels)

Dart Shooter:
(Custom) Vambrace Attachment: (Ranged [Light]; Damage 4; Critical 3; Range [Short]; Accurate 1, Linked 1, Pierce 3, Limited Ammo 8. 400/6. (Think what Pre Visla used against Maul)

"Whistling Birds": (Pretty sure this is it. Thanks Varlie!)
(Custom) Vambrace Attachment: (Ranged [Light]; Damage 4; Critical 2; Range [Short]; Guided 2, Limited Ammo 12, Pierce 5. (R) 1,000/9.
Designate targets up to 12 (or remaining missiles if previously fired). If firing at more than one target, the initial target must always be the target with the highest difficulty and highest defense. Increase the difficulty of the attack once if designating more than 1 target. Make a Ranged (Light) attack based on the most difficult target. It takes 1 Advantage to hit an additional target and advantages must be spent on targets before spending them on criticals if multiple targets were designated.
Additional qualities: The cost to purchase additional ammo is 100 credits with a rarity equal to the weapon. It takes an action to reload the weapon.
I'm looking for advise on pricing it and pricing its ammo, as well as reloading. This is the most complicated of the weapons I've statted.

7 hours ago, P-47 Thunderbolt said:

We were talking about the Whistling Birds in another thread, and I've statted stuff like this before, so I figured I'd start a thread for it and see what you people think.

Mandalorian Vambraces:
Armor Attachment. Each Vambrace costs 500 credits and each is capable of holding up to three of the weapons I will outline below. Whether you have one or two vambraces, they only take up 1 HP on Mandalorian armor, but on other armor they take up 1 per vambrace.

Wrist Mounted Weapon:
Weapon Attachment: See CotR page 61. (Think the blasters the Death Watch have on their wrist. That is why I included it)

Retractable Wrist Blades:
Armor (Vambrace) Attachment: See CotR page 63.

Portable Plasma Shield:
Armor (Vambrace) Attachment: See CotR page 63.

Micro-Rocket Launcher:
Armor (Vambrace) Attachment: See CotR page 62.

Whipcord Thrower:
Armor (Vambrace) Attachment: See CotR page 63.

Compact Flame Projector:
Armor (Vambrace) Attachment: (Ranged [Light]; Damage 5; Critical 2; Range [Short]; Blast 2, Burn 2, Pierce 2, Vicious 3) (R) 750/8. The stats are from official NPCs, the price is conjecture.

Repulsor Blast:
(Custom) Vambrace Attachment: (Ranged [Light]; Damage - ; Critical - ; Range [Short]; Concussive 1, Disorient 3, Knockdown, Slow-Firing 2. 650/8. (Think what Sabine had in Rebels)

Dart Shooter:
(Custom) Vambrace Attachment: (Ranged [Light]; Damage 4; Critical 3; Range [Short]; Accurate 1, Linked 1, Pierce 3, Limited Ammo 8. 400/6. (Think what Pre Visla used against Maul)

"Whistling Birds":
(Custom) Vambrace Attachment: (Ranged [Light]; Damage 4; Critical 2; Range [Short]; Auto-fire (only), Guided 2, Limited Ammo 1, Pierce 5. (R) 1,000/9. Additional qualities: Does not increase the difficulty to use Auto-fire. The cost to purchase additional ammo is 100 credits with a rarity equal to the weapon. It takes an action to reload the weapon.
For this weapon, I've got a couple other thoughts: Reduce the cost to activate Auto-fire by 1, and removing the additional quality of not increasing the difficulty for Auto-fire.
I'm leaning towards adding the first one, but I'm not sure about the second; this weapon seems to be very powerful, and since it is a Limited Ammo 1 weapon, I don't think it is necessary to nerf it all that much. Particularly as it is mostly going to be effective against Minions, though I see how 1 Advantage Auto-Fire (if I add that) can be abused against bigger, badder, characters.
I'm also looking for advise on pricing it and pricing its ammo, as well as reloading. This is the most complicated of the weapons I've statted.

Something else you can add is the energy shield Sabine used in her duel with Gar Saxon.

That's the portable plasma shield.

They introduced that in Collapse. You can turn it on and off as an incidental (I believe) adding 2 to defense.

You can turn it on and off as an Incidental, but it only has the Defensive 1 quality until modded.

Another way to picture it is as the shield that the Heavies use in BF II, but yes, it is what Sabine used in Rebels and it was also seen in the Clone Wars ARC that set up the Siege of Mandalore, used by Bo Katan's resistance fighters.

7 hours ago, Varlie said:

That's the portable plasma shield.

They introduced that in Collapse. You can turn it on and off as an incidental (I believe) adding 2 to defense.

It's possibly instead the energy buckler from keeping the peace.

Just now, EliasWindrider said:

It's possibly instead the energy buckler from keeping the peace.

Maybe, but I believe that they added the Portable Plasma Shield to CotR to reflect the shield that the Mandalorians used, like how they added the other gauntlet weapons.

3 minutes ago, P-47 Thunderbolt said:

Maybe, but I believe that they added the Portable Plasma Shield to CotR to reflect the shield that the Mandalorians used, like how they added the other gauntlet weapons.

They don't to my knowledge have rules for gauntlets that you can add attachments to, suits of armor yes, gauntlets no.

Just now, EliasWindrider said:

They don't to my knowledge have rules for gauntlets that you can add gear to.

That's why I'm statting Mandalorian Vambraces.

I used the word "Gauntlet Weapons" to refer to the weapons Mandalorians mounted on their gauntlets, some of which made it into CotR as Armor Attachments that would be worn on the wrist.

They have the hands free weapon mod which is essentially just mounting it to a bracer or other area.

Don't get fixated on it being part of the armor from a game mechanic point of view. Mount it on a bracer and just wear it as part of the armor.

Just now, P-47 Thunderbolt said:

That's why I'm statting Mandalorian Vambraces.

I used the word "Gauntlet Weapons" to refer to the weapons Mandalorians mounted on their gauntlets, some of which made it into CotR as Armor Attachments that would be worn on the wrist.

Having something that you can wear on your wrist with +3 hardpoints seems unbalanced but ymmv

Just now, EliasWindrider said:

Having something that you can wear on your wrist with +3 hardpoints seems unbalanced but ymmv

I kinda is, but Mandalorians are kinda unbalanced, so it gets the job done. It's supposed to reflect the Mandalorians' ability to mount tons of firepower on their wrists.

11 minutes ago, P-47 Thunderbolt said:

Maybe, but I believe that they added the Portable Plasma Shield to CotR to reflect the shield that the Mandalorians used, like how they added the other gauntlet weapons.

Probably, but vambraces also don't officially exist in system, forcing some balance by restrictions on the armor. Your proposal basically is a 750c way to cheat armor HP limits.

A better middle ground might be to crank up the cost and rarity a bit and see if instead of armor attachments you instead secure actual weapons and items to the vambraces. Limit it by enc, skill, and something else and see if that works.

Might allow all the same gadgets without the Mod options taking it through the roof.

About those Whistling Birds... wouldn't Limited Ammo 1 prevent Auto-fire from ever being able to be triggered?

And doesn't it have like Limited Ammo 10 or so?

11 minutes ago, P-47 Thunderbolt said:

I kinda is, but Mandalorians are kinda unbalanced, so it gets the job done. It's supposed to reflect the Mandalorians' ability to mount tons of firepower on their wrists.

This is first and foremost an rpg, which requires balanced mechanics. There are complaints that the portable plasma shield generator is by itself unbalanced... so you not only jumped the shark, you nuked the fridge. Mandalorian armor has 5 hp for a reason

2 minutes ago, micheldebruyn said:

About those Whistling Birds... wouldn't Limited Ammo 1 prevent Auto-fire from ever being able to be triggered?

And doesn't it have like Limited Ammo 10 or so?

Not really, it just depends on how you think about it.

It fires one volley that can hit a myriad of opponents, but since it can only be fired once, I thought adding LA 1 made sense.

The reason for Auto-fire rather than Linked is that it can hit multiple opponents at once rather than only hitting one.

It may not be perfect... "syntax" if you will, but I think it makes sense (and I don't think we've ever seen an Auto-fire weapon with Limited Ammo before).

4 minutes ago, EliasWindrider said:

This is first and foremost an rpg, which requires balanced mechanics. There are complaints that the portable plasma shield generator is by itself unbalanced... so you not only jumped the shark, you nuked the fridge

They can't fire all their weapons at once, it just allows them to have multiple weapons on hand. Something that Mandalorians definitely do. It doesn't give them any durability bonuses and it only gives them more options offensively. Personally, I'm not that big a fan of the wrist mounted weapons taking up an HP. I've reconciled it by saying that it is for hooking it up to a helmet (which only makes sense with some armors), so what I've done with the Vambraces is presume that they have some way of coordinating the weapons that results in less strain on the helmet's systems, and that Mandalorian armor is more suited to the integration of Vambraces, reducing the HP cost from 1 per to 1 flat.

As far as balance goes, I'm only concerned about balancing the individual weapon systems, I like the Vambraces the way they are and think that they reflect what we see Mandalorians using in the Clone Wars and Sabine in Star Wars Rebels.

I've been playtesting them for a bit now, and if anything, they just add to the enjoyment. I haven't run into any issues.

P.S. Where'd you get the "Nuked the fridge" line? I've never heard that before.

7 minutes ago, P-47 Thunderbolt said:

P.S. Where'd you get the "Nuked the fridge" line? I've never heard that before.

I’ve not heard it before, but I think it must be an Indiana Jones reference.

Maybe the whistling birds could be a standard attack, requiring Advantage to trigger a Blast-like effect to hit other targets?

Just now, Edgehawk said:

Maybe the whistling birds could be a standard attack, requiring Advantage to trigger a Blast-like effect to hit other targets?

I had thought about Blast, but then you run into friendly fire, and I'm iffy on trying to make a new weapon quality.

I'd rather try to keep it as simple as possible, and I also don't want the advantage cost to be too cheap, while preferably also not too expensive, which is why I've been waffling on 1 vs. 2 Advantage Auto-fire.

14 minutes ago, P-47 Thunderbolt said:

They can't fire all their weapons at once, it just allows them to have multiple weapons on hand. Something that Mandalorians definitely do. It doesn't give them any durability bonuses and it only gives them more options offensively. Personally, I'm not that big a fan of the wrist mounted weapons taking up an HP. I've reconciled it by saying that it is for hooking it up to a helmet (which only makes sense with some armors), so what I've done with the Vambraces is presume that they have some way of coordinating the weapons that results in less strain on the helmet's systems, and that Mandalorian armor is more suited to the integration of Vambraces, reducing the HP cost from 1 per to 1 flat.

As far as balance goes, I'm only concerned about balancing the individual weapon systems, I like the Vambraces the way they are and think that they reflect what we see Mandalorians using in the Clone Wars and Sabine in Star Wars Rebels.

I've been playtesting them for a bit now, and if anything, they just add to the enjoyment. I haven't run into any issues.

P.S. Where'd you get the "Nuked the fridge" line? I've never heard that before.

I think part of the issue is the mod options on the upgrades you're listing. Those allow your vambraces to get out of hand.

Could you do something akin to the armor holsters as they appeared in DC?

Like...

Vambraces have an Enc of x. They can mount up to y Encumbrance of weapons that are one handed and use the range light, Melee, or brawl skill. Weapons that are mounted on the vambraces don't count towards the usesr total Encumbrance threshold.

Or maybe... Vambraces come with the following weapons: x,v,z. Vambrace weapons can be replaced with other weapons on a 1:1 bases. Replacement weapons must be one handed brawl, Melee, or ranged light weapons with a Max enc of Q.

6 minutes ago, Edgehawk said:

I’ve not heard it before, but I think it must be an Indiana Jones reference.

Yup.

https://youtu.be/jn4Vhkmb4Lw

14 minutes ago, Ghostofman said:

I think part of the issue is the mod options on the upgrades you're listing. Those allow your vambraces to get out of hand.

Could you do something akin to the armor holsters as they appeared in DC?

Like...

Vambraces have an Enc of x. They can mount up to y Encumbrance of weapons that are one handed and use the range light, Melee, or brawl skill. Weapons that are mounted on the vambraces don't count towards the usesr total Encumbrance threshold.

Or maybe... Vambraces come with the following weapons: x,v,z. Vambrace weapons can be replaced with other weapons on a 1:1 bases. Replacement weapons must be one handed brawl, Melee, or ranged light weapons with a Max enc of Q.

I think what I've got is simpler and easier to use, but for some of the attachments I could certainly see not allowing mods or limiting mods. I'll take a look at it and see.

Only three of them have Modification options: The Micro-rocket Launcher, the Portable Plasma Shield, and the Retractable Wrist Blades.

I think that I'd do this:

No modification options for the RWB (base is 2 Defensive+1 mods, and now I think I get what you're saying about mods getting out of hand)
Reduce modification options for the MRL to 1 remove Setback from checks made to fire this weapon mod (base adds 5 Limited Ammo +1 mods)
Reduce Modification options for the PPS to 1 Deflection +1 mod (base is 3 Deflection +! mods and 2 Defensive +1 mods)

What do you think?

1 hour ago, P-47 Thunderbolt said:

Not really, it just depends on how you think about it.

It fires one volley that can hit a myriad of opponents, but since it can only be fired once, I thought adding LA 1 made sense.

The reason for Auto-fire rather than Linked is that it can hit multiple opponents at once rather than only hitting one.

It may not be perfect... "syntax" if you will, but I think it makes sense (and I don't think we've ever seen an Auto-fire weapon with Limited Ammo before).

Where are you getting that it can only be fired once? He has about 15 missiles in that thing, he fired 4 of them.

Auto-fire does seem wrong. It doesn't seem like anything covered by the rules we have: and automatic system that doesn't seem to require a skill check by the user, and automatically makes X number of guided attacks where X is the number of opponents withing range. This really seems more like a narrative ability like the Hired Gun's Last One Standing's signature ability.

1 minute ago, micheldebruyn said:

Where are you getting that it can only be fired once? He has about 15 missiles in that thing, he fired 4 of them.

I don't know if he only fired four of them, but I guess I don't know that he can only fire it once.

I'd interpreted it as him getting one discharge and some of the missiles hit, and some of them don't.

I guess we don't have enough information for me to stat these yet. We'll have to see if they are elaborated on in future episodes.

Aside from that, I may just keep it in as an interesting weapon, even if the mechanics don't match up properly (possibly changing the name and just reskinning it). We'll see.

51 minutes ago, P-47 Thunderbolt said:

Only three of them have Modification options: The Micro-rocket Launcher, the Portable Plasma Shield, and the Retractable Wrist Blades.

I think that I'd do this:

No modification options for the RWB (base is 2 Defensive+1 mods, and now I think I get what you're saying about mods getting out of hand)
Reduce modification options for the MRL to 1 remove Setback from checks made to fire this weapon mod (base adds 5 Limited Ammo +1 mods)
Reduce Modification options for the PPS to 1 Deflection +1 mod (base is 3 Deflection +! mods and 2 Defensive +1 mods)

What do you think?

That helps, but is not that great from a design perspective. Long complicated stat blocks with special rules for special things are a pain. And it's not very future proof as another attachment could come out that also needs roping it.

The more I think about it the more I'm leaning toward the idea of it being a set collection of weapons with an option to swap out, or maybe add one or two.

Half the issue with the dang things is we don't know much about them. Do they come standard with stuff? Are they custom built? What kind of people use them? Are there supposed to be different versions for different people, or are they just blank mounts individual users are expected to know how to tweak?