1 hour ago, Yogo Rye X said:

2. Do I smell a Shono x Shizue ship on the way?

He'll have to divorce his new Gaijin bride first

What is Yoshi supposed to have done wrong in this story?

3 hours ago, Schmoozies said:

He'll have to divorce his new Gaijin bride first

Oh yah, forgot he just got married in the novella. Oh well there is always Yasamura who we don't know what he is doing at the moment...

This has been the most hilarious fiction so far.

Lisa Farrel must have loved writng this.

10 hours ago, phillos said:

Still I'd prefer this than everyone is unrealistically competent. [...] That's more fun than Shoju revealing he predicting Yoshi's actions, but Yoshi reveals that he predicted that Shoju would predict his actions...

I think that you will enjoy this video .

Double post. Again.

12 hours ago, Schmoozies said:

But yeah, for a supposedly astute political mind Yoshi is proving to be anything but, and this story is just reinforcing it.

This.

• On the one hand, I get the "what the heck" reflex - and the "It must be a scorpion plot!" reflex (because let's be honest, it usually is).
  • We've seen the Edict coming since Tiger Stalks His Prey - and frankly it took a lot of readers off guard. Yoshi's basically dealing with it in a compressed couple of hours
  • The fact that the Emperor is dead and the Prince-slash-new-Emperor disappeared in one night isn't helping.
  • When there is a seismic shift in the political landscape, reaching out for an ally is sound sense. And with a common enemy of the Lion, Ide Tadaji makes sense as a first port of call.
• But at a fundamental level, if Yoshi was good a judge of character as he thinks he is, he should know that whilst Bayushi Kachiko would happily dance and drink whilst Otosan Uchi burned if she came out of it better off and not having to deal with the consequences, Bayushi Shoju is a lot closer to the 'idealised' scorpion; he will lie, cheat and steal but the one person he wouldn't lie about, cheat or steal from is the Emperor. Especially not Hantei Jodan who - I don't believe this was a particular secret - was as close to a 'personal friend' as an Emperor can have.
  • The same is true of Akodo Toturi, and Agasha Sumiko. You don't have to like the three of them. A lot of people (including their own vassals!) don't. But if you're looking for three people who's integrity is about as solid as anyone in Rokugan, and all three of them are on the same side, maybe think about the possibility they're not doing this out of ambition and what it would mean if they aren't before defaulting to counter-conspiracy mode?
• Also - publicly and openly claiming "It must be a forgery" in front of a witness from another clan seems like boxing himself into a nasty corner for someone who's supposed to be a diplomat. Unambiguous statements are very dangerous things!
• And yes, the slip of saying "brother" not "champion" is potentially going to put the cat amongst the pigeons by warning Doji Hotaru (via Doji Shizue) before Kunawan might have intended it.

1 hour ago, Magnus Grendel said:

Also - publicly and openly claiming "It must be a forgery" in front of a witness from another clan seems like boxing himself into a nasty corner for someone who's supposed to be a diplomat. Unambiguous statements are very dangerous things!

Especially since he's trying to get that someone to bring his clan into an active military alliance with the Crane- whose current military status is best described as "pathetic," and about to get worse when they start killing each other.

Now, sure, the Unicorn are in a bit of pickle thanks to Shahai running off with Daisetsu, but taking up arms against the publicly recognized head of state while one of their own is accused of kidnapping the heir?! Yoshi is panicking his way into not having even a face-saving climbdown available.

The most unfortunate irony is that "Shoju's" unacceptable scheme to seize power is really Yoshi's revered late brother-in-law's, and given his desires for his clan, the Scorpion Champion would probably have declined the honour in a heartbeat in favour of the Emerald Champion (if he could talk the Emperor into it) if Satsume was still alive.

Much as with Kachiko, the fact that the Emperor chose not to discuss his intent with the Imperial Chancellor could be taken as indicative of his views on Yoshi.

How dare they not give Yoshi a regency. Nobody does regency like Yoshi, in his unmatched wisdom. He would have been a tremendous regent!

8 hours ago, Schmoozies said:

He'll have to divorce his new Gaijin bride first

He can have multiple wives, ths story even claims it. As long as the gaijin wife is the main one their deal is preserved

6 hours ago, 987654321 said:

I think that you will enjoy this video .

yup exactly that

3 hours ago, Nitenman said:

How dare they not give Yoshi a regency. Nobody does regency like Yoshi, in his unmatched wisdom. He would have been a tremendous regent!

The thing is, nothing we see in his head sounds like "The Imperial Chancellor". It only sounds like "The Crane who's gotten a high-ranking post to further his own clan's interests".

Which is probably part of why he wasn't in the running for the post.

It's a sad thing to see Yoshi fumble that hard. One would expect him to roll with the punches and possibly make something out of it. I think he would've been in a pretty good place to blackmail Tadaji hard, "extorting nicely" and bullying him the "crane way" into safeguarding an alliance with the Unicorn.

Yoshi could appear to the court, pledge his service to the Scorpion maintaining his position in it.
The Emperor is dead and Sahai is missing along with the future Emperor. This could insinuate that the Unicorn were behind both things, orchestrated nicely to destabilise the Empire within a day. He confides that to Tadaji and pledges to protect his secret if the Unicorn allied with the Crane.
Later on, he could add the Scorpion to this false theory and present them as the Unicorn "alleged" allies who managed to keep the Unicorn's secret, thus branding them as "accomplices". All this could be spread via rumourmongering.
After some time, after the anti-Scorpion sentiment spreads nicely, he secretly starts funding "imperial loyalist" groups whereas on the same time he sends envoys to all the courts professing the need for "integrity in the Imperial capital" branding him as a necessary figure whilst waiting for the young Emperor to be found.

As a bonus, having that kind of Imperial leverage he'd might ensure a ceasefire with the Lion, "for the better of the Empire".
And I've not added Kakita Ryoku to the mix, the Emperor's past advisor and mother of his illegitimate child.

However all he's managed to do, was to show his true colours to another weaker politician, and send an important relative away from the capital, depriving him of pawns, leaders and future manipulators.

Still not seeing what Yoshi “fumbled,” keeping in mind what he knows or thinks he knows.

I agree with the argument that he does not have a clear sense of Shoju’s character. But then again, Yoshi had a clearer insight into Kachiko’s character than Shoju. Plus he criticizes himself in this story for not paying enough attention to Shoju — although he just assumes Shoju is cut from the same cloth as Kachiko. Then again, this is not unreasonable. Shoju assumed Kachiko was cut from the same cloth as him.

It’s strange to judge Yoshi so harshly on what it likely the worst day of his life, so far. Almost as if it’s just a forced meme that’s not even potentially funny anymore. Well, not almost.

To his credit, he understands that the only potential hope for the Crane is a military alliance with the Unicorn and brokers it quickly and painlessly.

53 minutes ago, Manchu said:

Still not seeing what Yoshi “fumbled,” keeping in mind what he knows or thinks he knows.

I agree with the argument that he does not have a clear sense of Shoju’s character. But then again, Yoshi had a clearer insight into Kachiko’s character than Shoju. Plus he criticizes himself in this story for not paying enough attention to Shoju — although he just assumes Shoju is cut from the same cloth as Kachiko. Then again, this is not unreasonable. Shoju assumed Kachiko was cut from the same cloth as him.

It’s strange to judge Yoshi so harshly on what it likely the worst day of his life, so far. Almost as if it’s just a forced meme that’s not even potentially funny anymore. Well, not almost.

To his credit, he understands that the only potential hope for the Crane is a military alliance with the Unicorn and brokers it quickly and painlessly.

As long as you ignore that he tries to sidestep his champion in favor of his hand picked successor to further ferment unrest in the clan all while his wife and ancestral home are in the hands of the Lion. And then is dumb enough to let it slip in front of Shizue who he hasn't brought on side with his plans yet when he slips and says he will need to inform Kuwannen of his plans and stumbles when he's caught on not bothering to mention it to Hotaru.

Sorry #kakitayoshiisafool will continue to go strong

Meanwhile, Miya Satoshi, alone in his residence:

Yoshi believes, correctly, that Hotaru has been compromised by Kachiko. Given the announcement of a Scorpion regency in the wake of the Scorpion taking control of Toshi Ranbo, Yoshi would indeed be a fool to trust Hotaru.

Yoshi is also correct to get a deal done with the Unicorn and he does it very quickly, something I get the impression that is outside of his comfort zone.

Regarding Yoshi’s slip up in convo with Shizue. First, Shizue is surprised because Yoshi is not one to make such mistakes according to her; so what you say makes him a fool is explicitly uncharacteristic behavior for him. Second, Yoshi has received earth shatteringly terrible news twice in one day. It makes sense that he is uncharacteristically distracted in this context.

I’d like to see more L5R characters portrayed as normal humans rather than superheroes (and villains).

Basically, it's not that Yoshi is a fool, it's more Yoshi has been from the beginning portrayed in a very bad manner. Arrogant and dismissive, blaming others dishonor for forcing him to do dishonorable things (like his interactions with what definitely looks like a shinobi/low caste spy when learning about the emperor's death).

In all fictions he was presented as an antagonist to main sympathetic characters like Taka. Pure Crane smugness.

And to add insult to injury, even in what seems his own fiction, all about him, he gets the worst day possible, makes blatant mistakes and is depicted with a growing migraine that makes the whole ridiculous.

Nothing redeeming for him here.

In the grand scheme of fictions, it feels like one of the "bad guys" of this overarching story with multiple points of view has been inflicted a really bad day, like a reckoning.

I liked old5r Yoshi, but dislike nuYoshi so not sure if it was sad or rejoicing.

22 minutes ago, Nitenman said:

Basically, it's not that Yoshi is a fool, it's more Yoshi has been from the beginning portrayed in a very bad manner. Arrogant and dismissive, blaming others dishonor for forcing him to do dishonorable things (like his interactions with what definitely looks like a shinobi/low caste spy when learning about the emperor's death).

In all fictions he was presented as an antagonist to main sympathetic characters like Taka. Pure Crane smugness.

And to add insult to injury, even in what seems his own fiction, all about him, he gets the worst day possible, makes blatant mistakes and is depicted with a growing migraine that makes the whole ridiculous.

Nothing redeeming for him here.

In the grand scheme of fictions, it feels like one of the "bad guys" of this overarching story with multiple points of view has been inflicted a really bad day, like a reckoning.

I liked old5r Yoshi, but dislike nuYoshi so not sure if it was sad or rejoicing.

Actually this is his second POV fiction. But his first he was just as bad if not worse as he didn't have the excuse of its been a long night and jigoku has been going down when he was smugly getting ready to put the Lion in their place by favoring the Unicorn over them when the Emperor, under Shoju's and Kachiko's advise, pulled the rug out from under him with the no Imperial Decrees thing.

My issue is O5R Yoshi was not an arrogant bastard, he was the consummate Crane, polite, political and ready to eviscerate you with a subtle action when required. Nu5R Yoshi is just the worst Crane stereotypes rolled into one, and has lost all semblances of subtlety for overt power grabbing and "favor" brokering that is all about his power instead of the Crane.

I will certainly grant that he is consistently portrayed as lacking humility, although he is sometimes reflective.

He just never gets his flaws offset by getting cool scenes, like Kachiko does.

Whenever he appears in fiction, we see him working through information to logical and even insightful conclusions. But his victories (such as securing a military alliance with the Unicorn in exchange for temporarily averting Shahai’s seemingly inevitable execution) are always trivialized by him being exactly how one of the highest ranking samurai in Rokugan would naturally be: arrogant.

Until recently, Kachiko always got a pass for being arrogant because she is written in the tone of someone who is effective, despite the fact she ****** up massively.

Somebody needs to write a scene for Yoshi where he can be unambiguously cool. Otherwise the forced meme will keep being forced on us.

1 hour ago, Schmoozies said:

My issue is O5R Yoshi was not an arrogant bastard, he was the consummate Crane, polite, political and ready to eviscerate you with a subtle action when required. Nu5R Yoshi is just the worst Crane stereotypes rolled into one, and has lost all semblances of subtlety for overt power grabbing and "favor" brokering that is all about his power instead of the Crane.

This right here...

Like, Kachiko? Kachiko is a horrible person. Easily the most insidious of the Scorpion Clan's villains that we know of at this stage, and one whose flaws led her to make one absolute humdinger of a miscalculation. But aside from that one example, she has been shown as not merely competent- she has made the entire Court dance to her tune. Whereas Yoshi THINKS it does... and then continually gets blindsided by events. There'ss never a sense that the guy even knows what contingency plan is, let alone that he has one to act upon. Which is why Kachiko is a villain to watch, whereas Yoshi is feeling more and more like the guy future Crane historians are going to blame the era's catastrophes on- and be right.

It's one thing to not SHOW that the tsunami has put the Crane in a way worse position than they've ever been in, and that everything is cascading down around them. That's in keeping with the Crane clan's schtick- even when held hostage in an enemy castle, treat your guests to the finest teas available from your personal stash.

It's quite another for the guy wielding some of the little genuine power the Crane still have not to admit it to himself enough to choose the right options.

As a servant of the Emperor? He's arrogant and disruptive (note that he has plenty of company here, but guys like Miya Satoshi have the excuse that making the Imperial administration look bad is kind of the point).

As a servant of the Crane Clan? He's doing damage that Tsuko can only admire. More than anyone- even Hotaru- he could be making choices that help his Clan weather this nightmare. But those aren't the choices he makes. And it's not an isolated occurrence- at every single step, Yoshi has been played like a fiddle by either Kachiko or his own preconceptions- and at no point do we see him second-guessing them until THIS fiction- when he second-guesses only to double down.

Believe it or not, I actually share Manchu's desire for Yoshi to score some points- somewhere, anywhere- because otherwise the only thing keeping him from being bad comedy at this stage is how decidedly tragic his mountain of mistakes will prove to be.

We can say, he secured an alliance. Why then does it feel that Tadaji got the better of him?

The stories are always written against him.

He’s not even a villain; just a guy written to be unlikeable when all of the personality flaws that make him unlikeable are just what one would expect for someone in his rank and from his culture.

Imagine stories casting Dragon characters in this light ...

Perhaps I'm a moron and the last person to think of this, but it did just occur to me: based on the Clan letters they put out, they're setting up the alliances they referenced for the Kunshu decision. Dragon supporting Scorpion has already happened, Unicorn supporting Crane is likely about to happen, and Lion supporting Phoenix definitely has room to happen. The Crab letter basically said "we don't care, but not Crane," which is a shame because it would be nice to get the Crab going in the story. Honestly, if I were Maker of the Decision with no restrictions imposed, I would like the see how the story goes if the Crab hold Kunshu. Let the next Emperor go to the Wall and see firsthand the duty of the Crab before he goes back to his throne. A little perspective helps people grow up.

57 minutes ago, MirumotoKatsuro said:

The Crab letter basically said "we don't care, but not Crane," which is a shame because it would be nice to get the Crab going in the story.

Shoju declared the Crab to be granted the jade mines in Toshi Ranbo. The Crab now owe Shoju and will be paying him back first and foremost by taking up a presence in Toshi Ranbo, a stronghold of support for his dutiful wife...