Anyone still use Rout/Outwit?

By Green Raven, in L5R LCG: Deck Building

Not even bowing the target... does anyone run these cards?

Edited by Green Raven

They were seeing a mini renaissance in some decks as a tower defense, just get them out of there so you don't need to worry about them for the conflict, but with the amount of movement tricks in the game at the moment they've fallen out of favor again and most who want that tactic are running Lion or Lion splash for Strength in Numbers instead as its a little more reliable to pull off.

In the Unicorn deck I am currently playing, I run 1 copy of Rout along with 1 copy of Challenge on the Field.

There are essentially the same, but, their subtle differences are important.

Ultimately I wanted 2 send home actions in my deck. I did not double up on either because there are times where I do not want to duel someone that is so close in military, as it forces me into a big bid and that could be a potential issue with honor. At the same time I did not want to inflate my fate cost of my conflict deck by including a bunch more cards that cost me fate. Also there is the benefit of not having to worry so much about Tadaka in the Phoenix match up. Since I was not running Lion splash, Strength in numbers was not an option for me.

I still believe Rout is a viable card, despite cards like Favorable Ground seeing play in a lot of decks. As long as you are including cards which limit your opponent's ability to use move in cards then Rout is a good complement to that. For example, I'm very high Peasant Advice. It gives you face down province information, and cycles away problematic holdings and/or characters. Since send home effects like Rout, Challenge on the Field, and Strength in Numbers do not bow, you are not worried about a card like Fight On. If you can Peasant Advice away their Favorable Ground, then you have very little to fear in the way of cards moving things back in, after you have moved them out.

1 hour ago, Ishi Tonu said:

In the Unicorn deck I am currently playing, I run 1 copy of Rout along with 1 copy of Challenge on the Field.

There are essentially the same, but, their subtle differences are important.

Ultimately I wanted 2 send home actions in my deck. I did not double up on either because there are times where I do not want to duel someone that is so close in military, as it forces me into a big bid and that could be a potential issue with honor. At the same time I did not want to inflate my fate cost of my conflict deck by including a bunch more cards that cost me fate. Also there is the benefit of not having to worry so much about Tadaka in the Phoenix match up. Since I was not running Lion splash, Strength in numbers was not an option for me.

I still believe Rout is a viable card, despite cards like Favorable Ground seeing play in a lot of decks. As long as you are including cards which limit your opponent's ability to use move in cards then Rout is a good complement to that. For example, I'm very high Peasant Advice. It gives you face down province information, and cycles away problematic holdings and/or characters. Since send home effects like Rout, Challenge on the Field, and Strength in Numbers do not bow, you are not worried about a card like Fight On. If you can Peasant Advice away their Favorable Ground, then you have very little to fear in the way of cards moving things back in, after you have moved them out.

The issue with rout/outwit is the force and keyword requirements. They can be awkward to reach against towers which is why in my experience they have started to fall out of favor.

16 minutes ago, Schmoozies said:

The issue with rout/outwit is the force and keyword requirements. They can be awkward to reach against towers which is why in my experience they have started to fall out of favor.

I have to assume if one considers playing Rout/Outwit, they have and appropriate number of Bushi/Coutier and the ability to get one of them beefy enough to play it. If a deck does not have a "wide" counter to a tower, then one of the only options is to have a tower of their own. Make sure yours is 1 skill bigger and send them home. If you can't manage that, then Rout/Outwit are not the correct cards.

I have a ton of bushi, and a full complement of Curved Blades/Fine Katana to work with, so it's rather easy to get a relatively large military unit that can remove almost anything opposing it. Heck, if I have baited out all my opponent's Assassinations, I can get a 1 drop big enough to Rout just about anything.

I would not recommend including the card if you don't have the ability to play it. Nor would I suggest running a bunch of cards just to be able to play Rout. All my selections fit together relatively nicely and I ended up with a little space to try some extra cards. Rout worked well in my deck for the reasons I mentioned. That will not be the case for every deck.

Rout/Outwit are not cards that you just slap three copies into your deck, or throw in because you want some send home. I'd recommend working them in on the back end, if you can find space and they fit within the rest of your deck.