So I was discussing the L5R lore with some new players and I got to thinking: It appears that there were some pretty bonkers events in the CCG lore.

As I’ve gotten more invested in the game I’m finding I have a strong desire to reflect my ckan’s outlook in my deck building. I’ve been drawn to Support of the Scorpion for my crab deck, even though it’s not as competitive because I feel like building bridges with Scorpion is the best chance Crab currently has to get the jade/court influence they need to defend the wall. I also think that if there were ever any “Dark Alliance” shenanigans between the Crab and the Shadowlands I would feel morally compelled to denounce my clan and embrace another (apparently this happened in the old Lore? WTF crab???).

My question is, do most of you - Mr & Ms L5R player - feel the same, where if your clan did some extreme thing you would switch your main clan, or are most L5R players happy to support their clan no matter what they pull?

The other example I thought of is would any Scorpion players revolt if their clan straight up murdered the emperor to get the throne for their clan?

I like my clan for the background and concept, not necwsarrily for how the story unfolds. Althoigh if too much of that is lost, I might grow dissapointed

39 minutes ago, Bakura83 said:

My question is, do most of you - Mr & Ms L5R player - feel the same, where if your clan did some extreme thing you would switch your main clan, or are most L5R players happy to support their clan no matter what they pull?

I've stuck with the Phoenix through a lot of outright ludicrous crap (although a lot of what I was around for was, "the Phoenix are hard to write for so they're not showing up"), but I won't lie- if the clan as a whole took a hard left turn into maho territory and stayed there, I'd probably bail- but that seems unlikely. AEG never did it, and they were the ones who gave us (several.) periods where the only way to be competitive with a Phoenix deck was to use maho- which meant that the only Phoenix wins we'd get to impact the storyline reflected that. Even that couldn't shunt the pollos del fuego completely to being boring wrist-cutting Evul Wizurds, so given how FFG has presented the Phoenix? I expect some heavy dabbling in darkness, but I'm pretty sanguine about the long-term faction identity.

8 minutes ago, Shiba Gunichi said:

I've stuck with the Phoenix through a lot of outright ludicrous crap (although a lot of what I was around for was, "the Phoenix are hard to write for so they're not showing up"), but I won't lie- if the clan as a whole took a hard left turn into maho territory and stayed there, I'd probably bail- but that seems unlikely. AEG never did it, and they were the ones who gave us (several.) periods where the only way to be competitive with a Phoenix deck was to use maho- which meant that the only Phoenix wins we'd get to impact the storyline reflected that. Even that couldn't shunt the pollos del fuego completely to being boring wrist-cutting Evul Wizurds, so given how FFG has presented the Phoenix? I expect some heavy dabbling in darkness, but I'm pretty sanguine about the long-term faction identity.

Excuse my ignorance, I’ve seen “maho” as a keyword I believe, but what exactly is it? Is it some shady school of magic like meishudo that good boys and girls shouldn’t learn about?

In fact, I think it’s mentioned in the crab rat-man Scout card, who I’ve only just learned recently is apparently a “good” race...

...I was wondering why crab have orc and ratpeople characters.

1 minute ago, Bakura83 said:

Excuse my ignorance, I’ve seen “maho” as a keyword I believe, but what exactly is it? Is it some shady school of magic like meishudo that good boys and girls shouldn’t learn about?

Basically, it's magic powered not by elemental kami, but by Jigoku-tainted spirits called kansen. Where elemental kami now respond to prayers from shugenja, kansen will answer anyone who offers them blood in the correct format. Magic of that sort is called maho (which is typical Rokugan piling a bunch of concepts under one banner and walking off with its hands in its pockets), and invariably inflicts Taint on those involved..

And for the Phoenix, it's an absolutely moronic thing to engage in, for reasons I've ranted about at length for the past twelve years or so- the short version is, a clan whose supremacy is based on their actual shugenja should never, EVER be all about something that literally anyone can do to. If your edge is magic, keeping it restricted is entirely in your interest- putting aside the known consequences and thematic dullness of the topic.

"Evil magic made me evil" has never been a terribly satisfactory narrative element.

5 minutes ago, Shiba Gunichi said:

Basically, it's magic powered not by elemental kami, but by Jigoku-tainted spirits called kansen. Where elemental kami now respond to prayers from shugenja, kansen will answer anyone who offers them blood in the correct format. Magic of that sort is called maho (which is typical Rokugan piling a bunch of concepts under one banner and walking off with its hands in its pockets), and invariably inflicts Taint on those involved..

And for the Phoenix, it's an absolutely moronic thing to engage in, for reasons I've ranted about at length for the past twelve years or so- the short version is, a clan whose supremacy is based on their actual shugenja should never, EVER be all about something that literally anyone can do to. If your edge is magic, keeping it restricted is entirely in your interest- putting aside the known consequences and thematic dullness of the topic.

"Evil magic made me evil" has never been a terribly satisfactory narrative element.

The idea, being, I assume, the Phoenix devote their whole life and soul to knowing the kami better than anyone else and hiding away what they know so others can’t share in the power, hence why meishodo bothers them so much because it has given the Unicorn a way to bypass all the hard work Phoenix has put in?

18 minutes ago, Bakura83 said:

The idea, being, I assume, the Phoenix devote their whole life and soul to knowing the kami better than anyone else and hiding away what they know so others can’t share in the power, hence why meishodo bothers them so much because it has given the Unicorn a way to bypass all the hard work Phoenix has put in?

Well, kinda.... but the Phoenix also genuinely revere the elemental kami- their prayers are requests that are usually fulfilled. Meishodo seems to them like cramming one of these sacred spirits into a jar and making it do tricks on demand.

The Phoenix are actually VERY keen on everyone having "proper" shugenja, because as they see it, it's the most important job a samurai can do.

The other side of the meishodo coin is that it utilizes name magic, so even if spirits or kami or djinn aren't physically bound to/in an object, the Unicorn learn the true names of the spirits and use it to command them... which of course also seems to fly in the face of Phoenix philosophy and theology emphasizing reverence.

Maho gets a bad rap.

Blood is mostly water and last time I checked there wasn't anything wrong with water magic.........

To answer the OP:

One of the many great things about being a Shadowlands player is the flexibility to do all sorts of jank and still be reasonably on track with respects to lore.

So while the Phoenix revere the kami, they also have the tendency to let a combination of their arrogance and curiosity get the better of them. They consider themselves THE authority on all things magical, so while the other clans can't handle the taint of Maho, the Phoenix are sure they can handle it fine. At least this has been the case in the CCG. Also, some of it was delving too deep into dark secrets and realizing the consequences too late. I fully expect some of the Elemental Council to open up the Black Scrolls (assuming they still exist), out of some combination of curiousity/necessity, same as last time. Tadaka is already going down the wrong path.

PS, I think no one in the Crab Clan (Ignoring the Shadowlands players who are just waiting) wants to see a repeat of the "Lets ally with the Shadowlands!". I'm not saying the Crab Clan won't start going down that path without realizing it, but I don't know that the player base would support the whole clan turning against the empire.

Also, in the CCG, the Scorpion Clan Coup happened before where the timeline of game had started. So it wasn't a choice for the CCG players. They actually got added back in later on.

34 minutes ago, Mirith said:

Tadaka is already going down the wrong path.

That's a matter of perspective.

Many, including me, would argue that he's going down the correct path.

2 hours ago, Bakura83 said:

The other example I thought of is would any Scorpion players revolt if their clan straight up murdered the emperor to get the throne for their clan?

There is likely a good number of Scorpion players, and many players of other clans, that are expecting something close to that.

You have to remember that when the L5R CCR came out in 95 the setting for the story was after the Scorpion Clan Coup. In the LCG reboot , that hasn't happened yet. It might not happen at all. FFG has done a good job at picking many of the interesting and fan favorite stories from the old lore and tweaking them enough to hint at things going down the same way or potentially very different.

Technically Kisada only allied with the Shadowlands so that once he'd used them to become Emperor and united the Clans under his leadership he could betray the Shadowlands and unleash the Empire's full might against them. Plus he was posthumously vindicated when Toturi made him a Fortune and then Yakamo became the new Sun God so it's kind of hard to think of the Crab as being unrighteous.

That being said I spent too much time in old5R opposing the Spider (that was the 9th Great Clan formed by followers of Fu Leng) to want to be allying with them this time around.

Also, go Crab/Scorpion. The Pincer Alliance was great fun last time around even if the Scorpion can be... difficult allies.

5 hours ago, Mirith said:

So while the Phoenix revere the kami, they also have the tendency to let a combination of their arrogance and curiosity get the better of them. They consider themselves THE authority on all things magical, so while the other clans can't handle the taint of Maho, the Phoenix are sure they can handle it fine. At least this has been the case in the CCG. Also, some of it was delving too deep into dark secrets and realizing the consequences too late. I fully expect some of the Elemental Council to open up the Black Scrolls (assuming they still exist), out of some combination of curiousity/necessity, same as last time. Tadaka is already going down the wrong path.

A major hitch in the old lore portrayal was that the arrogance of the Phoenix would blow up in their faces every time they showed up... meanwhile, their hubris never got anything to back it up. It was... frustrating.

Yes, the Isawa are arrogant gits (especially at the outset of whatever plotline you want) because for centuries they've been undisputed blah blah blah.

But when in the span of twenty years of various stories, they only show up to be duped, evil, just plain wrong, or outright defeated by foes we're told they should be able to handle, you'd think a scrap of humility might show up. Nope.

To be fair, they have roughly 1000 years of history on being the best.

3 hours ago, Mirith said:

To be fair, they have roughly 1000 years of history on being the best.

But when that is told, not shown...

4 hours ago, Mirith said:

To be fair, they have roughly 1000 years of history on being the best.

But none of those years matter, because they're not what's happening right now that we're seeing.

20 hours ago, Shiba Gunichi said:

A major hitch in the old lore portrayal was that the arrogance of the Phoenix would blow up in their faces every time they showed up... meanwhile, their hubris never got anything to back it up. It was... frustrating.

Yes, the Isawa are arrogant gits (especially at the outset of whatever plotline you want) because for centuries they've been undisputed blah blah blah.

But when in the span of twenty years of various stories, they only show up to be duped, evil, just plain wrong, or outright defeated by foes we're told they should be able to handle, you'd think a scrap of humility might show up. Nope.

Did the Isawa produce any notable achievements in the OTL, other than Isawa Tadaka participating in the Second Day of Thunder and Isawa Sezaru killing Iuchiban? I honestly can't recall.

1 hour ago, Mangod said:

Did the Isawa produce any notable achievements in the OTL, other than Isawa Tadaka participating in the Second Day of Thunder and Isawa Sezaru killing Iuchiban? I honestly can't recall.

They were the catalyst for the Air Dragon being corrupted and becoming the Shadow Dragon

A lot to me... and of course is not competitive, lol.

Anyway, Unicorn deck wit crab or crane allies. If I have Crane support (not the card) I have no mantis clan. I would love to use Phoenix... but they choose to close their land (and temples) because of meishodo, so no anymore (for now).

2 hours ago, Victarion13 said:

A lot to me... and of course is not competitive, lol.

Anyway, Unicorn deck wit crab or crane allies. If I have Crane support (not the card) I have no mantis clan. I would love to use Phoenix... but they choose to close their land (and temples) because of meishodo, so no anymore (for now).

Glad I’m not the only one then! 😂

I tell people why I’m running my deck and they just look at me with confused pity and say “but...it’s not competitive.”

I’m cathching up on the lore though and now I feel like I need a Crab/Mantis deck too.

3 hours ago, Victarion13 said:

A lot to me... and of course is not competitive, lol.

Anyway, Unicorn deck wit crab or crane allies. If I have Crane support (not the card) I have no mantis clan. I would love to use Phoenix... but they choose to close their land (and temples) because of meishodo, so no anymore (for now).

When Shiro Shinjo comes out you will effectively have your Mantis Clan Stronghold.....

That thing is made for Yoritomo. And, partnering with Crab to have effectively 6 Reprieves seems like a good way to keep a large Yoritomo around forever. Just don't let his mind get clouded.

13 hours ago, Schmoozies said:

They were the catalyst for the Air Dragon being corrupted and becoming the Shadow Dragon

You could at least be nice about it and mention that they killed Goju Adorai, too.

18 hours ago, Bakura83 said:

Glad I’m not the only one then! 😂

I tell people why I’m running my deck and they just look at me with confused pity and say “but...it’s not competitive.”

I’m cathching up on the lore though and now I feel like I need a Crab/Mantis deck too.

I also tried a Lion splash Phoenix deck (because to who is Akodo married).

I am just reading again some novels, to see if I can find a good reason for my favorite unicorn splash (so far) with the Crane.

My favorite character is also Kaito Kosori (for lore and for the card), but I am so sad for now I can't put her in my deck (or I can put only her in my deck with Unicorn splash Phoenix, because she felt sorry because of her letter and what happened after).

17 hours ago, Ishi Tonu said:

When Shiro Shinjo comes out you will effectively have your Mantis Clan Stronghold.....

That thing is made for Yoritomo. And, partnering with Crab to have effectively 6 Reprieves seems like a good way to keep a large Yoritomo around forever. Just don't let his mind get clouded.

I am waiting to be able to do a Mantis only deck: now that the most hated (I hate him) character is making is coming back in the new role I could drop Unicorn for go back to my green love.