43 minutes ago, AtoMaki said:

As far as the old canon goes, the Emperor could choose their wife

Agreed. But does that hold true when the Emperor has a Regent making decisions on their behalf?

15 minutes ago, Magnus Grendel said:

Agreed. But does that hold true when the Emperor has a Regent making decisions on their behalf?

I can see Shoju ruining Daisetsu's love life if he decides that the Crane must grow stronger, but I dunno if the Scorpion giving pity handouts to the Crane fits his "the Scorpion must lay low for the time being" agenda.

5 hours ago, AtoMaki said:

I can see Shoju ruining Daisetsu's love life if he decides that the Crane must grow stronger, but I dunno if the Scorpion giving pity handouts to the Crane fits his "the Scorpion must lay low for the time being" agenda.

Because the problem is, letting Daisetsu take any personal initiative is also an active choice on Shoju's part. So if Daisetsu were to wed Shahai, that - in the public eye - is Shoju not overruling him.

The sheer act of a scorpion - of anyone - being regent is disruptive enough, without them allowing/encouraging the Emperor to take possibly-dark-magic-wielding-non-traditional-Unicorn bride (from the Crane, Phoenix, and Lion perspective, anyway).

4 hours ago, Magnus Grendel said:

The sheer act of a scorpion - of anyone - being regent is disruptive enough, without them allowing/encouraging the Emperor to take possibly-dark-magic-wielding-non-traditional-Unicorn bride (from the Crane, Phoenix, and Lion perspective, anyway).

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This raises an interesting question: if the Emperor weds a Meishodo user and thus essentially says that Meishodo is A-OK then can the Phoenix still push their "Meishodo is BAD" narrative? I'm fairly sure that nobody is allowed to disagree with the Emperor.

Also, I wouldn't bother with the Lion. If Empress Shahai becomes real then I guess its cost for the Unicorn will be Altansarnai.

7 hours ago, AtoMaki said:

This raises an interesting question: if the Emperor weds a Meishodo user and thus essentially says that Meishodo is A-OK then can the Phoenix still push their "Meishodo is BAD" narrative? I'm fairly sure that nobody is allowed to disagree with the Emperor.

At present, it seems like the "MEISHODO TERRIBAD" campaign basically failed anyhow, with the Seppun formally trying to study it.

Now, should Shahai do something... untoward, then maybe the old ban-train might get some steam in its boiler again, but for now? Might just be in the presentation, but it seems like literally nobody else sees it as the problem the Phoenix do- because so far, the elemental imbalance is something only the Phoenix appear to have noticed.

In addition, the only clue we really seem to have on that front is that djinn fighting with elemental kami might be the root cause- but meishodo does not necessarily require the presence of djinn.

I think it'll be more interesting if the djinn is a symptom, and not the cause.

5 hours ago, HirumaShigure said:

I think it'll be more interesting if the djinn is a symptom, and not the cause.

It remains to be seen- what we can be pretty sure of is that the Council have been a bit hasty in blaming meishodo for the elemental imbalance- especially since it's apparently hitting the Phoenix lands, not the Unicorn (or, uh... anyone else so far).

Hm...if Shoju wants to downgrade Scorp power and public apperances, being a bad regent, while making sure to groom Daisetsu to rule well, could work for him.

@Shiba Gunichi I believe the Crane lands were hit by imbalance as well? Or the flood is related to them, possibly

4 hours ago, Horvagab said:

I believe the Crane lands were hit by imbalance as well? Or the flood is related to them, possibly

The tsunami that hit the Crane was the direct result of the former Phoenix Master of Water trying to fix the imbalance.

Every single time the imbalance has been seen, the Phoenix have been involved on some level- it's either hitting stuff in their lands or affecting their shugenja.

15 hours ago, Shiba Gunichi said:

It remains to be seen- what we can be pretty sure of is that the Council have been a bit hasty in blaming meishodo for the elemental imbalance- especially since it's apparently hitting the Phoenix lands, not the Unicorn (or, uh... anyone else so far).

It's also hitting the Lion Clan, according to the Meditations on the Ephemeral "Fireflies" fiction. Kaede describes it as "spreading."

21 hours ago, Shiba Gunichi said:

It remains to be seen- what we can be pretty sure of is that the Council have been a bit hasty in blaming meishodo for the elemental imbalance- especially since it's apparently hitting the Phoenix lands, not the Unicorn (or, uh... anyone else so far).

I’ve always thought the imbalance was due to the black scrolls kind of powering up. And the Phoenix having a bundle of them. Kind of a disruption of the kami

Just now, JolOfNar said:

I’ve always thought the imbalance was due to the black scrolls kind of powering up. And the Phoenix having a bundle of them. Kind of a disruption of the kami

That may be an issue, but if it were the case then there should be similar effects being felt in Scorpion lands since they also have a number of the scrolls.

11 hours ago, SpookyElectric said:

It's also hitting the Lion Clan, according to the Meditations on the Ephemeral "Fireflies" fiction. Kaede describes it as "spreading."

How nice that a Phoenix-trained Ishiken is there to notice

I have my own speculation on root causes- I think that whatever it is is hitting the Phoenix hardest so that they'll be chasing that down instead of looking at the bigger picture.

Especially since if they admit the full depth of the problem, they'll be displaying a weakness that more mundane Clans would be only too happy to exploit.

On 3/1/2019 at 6:36 AM, Ishi Tonu said:

I think this will end with Daisetsu trying to redeem his brother and forge a new Rokugan that embraces Fu Leng. Let's not forget that Fu Leng is still one of the original Kami. He was kind of a jerkface before he fell through Rokugan, but, he wasn't evil, at least not from any of the old lore that I remember. It the time spent being tormented in Jigoku that twisted and corrupted Fu Leng.

Embracing Fu Leng as an ally, returning him to the same stature as he Kami bothers and sisters would tie in nicely to Daisetsu, redeeming his brother, maybe by taking on mantle of Fu Leng and building the Spider Clan as the first in the Daigotsu line, while restoring the Hantei line as well. This way you have a united Rokugan to take on any future outside threats.

It probably won't happen that way, but, that's what I would like to see

The whole "let's resolve the whole Fu Leng thing favorably" and the fact that they realized that the writers realized they really couldn't commit to that and have all their magical baddies become either good or even just neutral and having to go back on that and needing each storyline to be more epicly destructive to Rokugan than the last... it really destroyed the whole setting.

So I can't really see the writers, especially given how things are set up now for far less god-tier magical resolving of everything, diving into the whole "Let's cleanse Fu Leng and make him a good guy!" Also, it kind of cheapens Jigoku's whole power, the fact that he is even called "Fu Leng" and no one remembers his actual original name because it has been erased by all minds across all realms of existence is something to be feared. Jigoku can not only corrupt one, it can not only mimic people, but it can literally erase the identity of a god from the minds of even other gods.

If there is any allusion to a Spider Clan, at this point I can't imagine it being anything beyond Daisetsu being killed or mortally injured and Shahai escaping with him or his body into the Shadowlands. And maybe some indication that the Goju, Chuda, Dark Moto, Noriaki and the Order of Spider are out there and ready to be united under the banner of the avatar of Fu Leng.

I would much rather see the Imperials lose their status, become the "Owl Clan" with an unclear indication of whether the other clans even regard them as a proper Great Clan or a Minor Clan, but basically leave them with the former capital and surrounding provinces as each clan pulls their forces back to their own lands and each clan becomes its own independent nation with any former imperial edicts only being respected as far as they are useful to peace between the clans, but otherwise nothing left to stop clans from going full-out open war against one another besides the concern that the other clans will see they have devoted all of their forces against another clan and use that opportunity to attack them from a different front.

The game mechanic of "Imperial Favor" would go from being "Favor of the Emperor" to "Favor of the people of the Empire". Thus being honest, forthright and brave in one's actions and kind to the common people would gain one honor and favor. An honor victory would indicate that the people favor you to such a degree that peasant rebellions, even the enemy's own ashigaru turning on them, on your behalf cripple the enemy's ability to continue to war against you leading to a victory while a dishonor defeat would mean the opposite occurs.

The throne losing all power to force a status quo within the realm would mean that the actual in-story Rokugan would be able to far better reflect what we are told the mechanics of the card game and the board game Battle of Rokugan represent.

It would also create a situation where the minor clans might very well be keen to create an Alliance for protection, leading to the opportunities for Yoritomo to rise to power.

And, as noted above, readers would know in the back of their minds that the Shadowlands forces are out there in the darkness and the more the clans tear at each other, the greater threat those forces will be when they finally do choose to act-- something the characters in the story likely will remain unaware of. But if and when the whole "Rokugani Civil War" status becomes burdensome, the Shadowlands Forces can be introduced into the setting as a proper threat that requires the clans to unite. After that point perhaps some sort of orderly determination of the new Imperial Line can take place.

1 hour ago, TheHobgoblyn said:

The whole "let's resolve the whole Fu Leng thing favorably" and the fact that they realized that the writers realized they really couldn't commit to that and have all their magical baddies become either good or even just neutral and having to go back on that and needing each storyline to be more epicly destructive to Rokugan than the last... it really destroyed the whole setting.

2

I gotta give this to the writers, pulling off a compelling white-and-grey storyline is legitimately hard if your foundation is the base Rokugani story. It just doesn't lend itself too well to this kind of morality because the only difference between Tengoku and Jigoku is that they make you do very dumb things in slightly different ways.

4 minutes ago, AtoMaki said:

I gotta give this to the writers, pulling off a compelling white-and-grey storyline is legitimately hard if your foundation is the base Rokugani story. It just doesn't lend itself too well to this kind of morality because the only difference between Tengoku and Jigoku is that they make you do very dumb things in slightly different ways.

I completely agree with this. Ideally all playable factions should be shades of grey, and maybe some black for the total edge-lords (of which I certainly was at some point). You can't really have violent conflict if the sides are going to be totally above-board and without flaw.

But, that being said, there probably was something amiss with having only a singular faction have its entire identity be that it was the edge-lord black faction then trying to redeem it so that it was sensible that other factions would accept it but also generally keeping all the other factions without any true villains or flaws (outside of being related to the single bad-guy faction).

Ideally, every faction should have a "I like them because they are this, this and this... but they do this and I can see it is kind of messed up even if I get how they feel it is necessary or is generally in their nature, but I want to fight for them anyway because they are my guys and I don't want them to lose and die."

And ideally, the game should be working off of conflicts that cannot just be resolved with a word and a wave of the hand. And the Imperial power is an impediment to that. But, I also don't want them to be killed off and waved dismissively out-of-hand like in the original story, because I really feel the concept of "We used to rule this land and did it for 1000 years of peace, now everything is at war and we are using what influence we have to try to get by" as well as the individual concepts of Hantei, Seppun, Otomo, Miya and Kasuga as a faction are interesting enough that I feel like they would make a better Clan than what we saw pieced together out of the Mantis, which generally saw the Centipede and Wasp merged in so tightly that there wasn't a good division between them, or what one could do with a "Spider Clan" which just incorporates every bad guy faction and necessitates either redeeming those evil groups or creating whole new groups of of thin air as to have a redeemed dark clan can really provide in the long term.

I am not saying that there can and should never be a fully realized Mantis or a Spider (although I feel the later should never be a fully realized and accepted clan except in a Rokugan where there is no central power and every clan is effectively a semi-sovereign nation), but the 8th clan should really be the out-of-power Hantei Clan that still aims to emulate Hantei and not the Fu Leng Clan that tries to emulate Fu Leng.