List composition talk!

@RStan and I have been chatting about this and I wanted to get more of a community outlook. I've been running the list below, which has been doing fine. I ran it against 4 I2 T-65s + I1 RZ-1/Squad leader (coordinate machine). It really seemed to expose my two Blues, resulting in them getting initiative killed and bullied around the mat.

That got me to wondering if dropping the two Crackshots and bumping the Blue up to a Green. I’m worried about Sinker swarms and (to a lesser extend) Jess and 3 RSEs. Any opinions?

Tallissan Lintra (36)
Heroic (1)
Crack Shot (1)
Advanced Optics (4)

Greer Sonnel (36)
Heroic (1)
Crack Shot (1)
Advanced Optics (4)

Zari Bangel (35)
Heroic (1)
Advanced Optics (4)

Blue Squadron Recruit (33)
Heroic (1)
Advanced Optics (4)

Blue Squadron Recruit (33)
Heroic (1)
Advanced Optics (4)
Total: 200

View in Yet Another Squad Builder 2.0

@RStan

@GreenDragoon

@kenoslaw

@Micanthropyre

Good question! I don't know.

I tend towards "no" because

• games where I pull off more blocks are in tendency games that I win -> two i1s make that easier
• I think I value crackshot more than the rest of you for certain matchups -> two crackshots are more valuable to me than potentially one simultaneous fire shot

Because it is only about that last shot, right? If he doesn't die then it didn't matter? In that regard, two crackshots that can potentially be used in all games are IMO more valuable than the up to 2 damage of that one simultaneous shot.

12 minutes ago, GreenDragoon said:

Good question! I don't know.

I tend towards "no" because

• games where I pull off more blocks are in tendency games that I win -> two i1s make that easier
• I think I value crackshot more than the rest of you for certain matchups -> two crackshots are more valuable to me than potentially one simultaneous fire shot

Because it is only about that last shot, right? If he doesn't die then it didn't matter? In that regard, two crackshots that can potentially be used in all games are IMO more valuable than the up to 2 damage of that one simultaneous shot.

I don't know if it's that easy. I had thought about the change before, dismissed it, then thought about it more after yesterday.

At I3, I can now react to I1 and I2. I can either react to I3 (if I move last) or still block I3 (if moving first). I can now assist in an initiative kill on an I1 and I2.

1 minute ago, gennataos said:

I don't know if it's that easy. I had thought about the change before, dismissed it, then thought about it more after yesterday.

At I3, I can now react to I1 and I2. I can either react to I3 (if I move last) or still block I3 (if moving first). I can now assist in an initiative kill on an I1 and I2.

Yes, fully agree. One way to play these games is like against this BBBBA

Completely focusing on arcdodging and only taking very few shots. In that game I have only taken very little damage. I would argue that in principle, you could try to play the i5,4 and 3 as aces that constantly dodge everything and only plink a damage every now and then, while your i1s stay out of the fight for as long as possible. That is not easy and quite possibly not the best (or most fun!) way to play that game. But it can work.

33 minutes ago, GreenDragoon said:

Yes, fully agree. One way to play these games is like against this BBBBA

Completely focusing on arcdodging and only taking very few shots. In that game I have only taken very little damage. I would argue that in principle, you could try to play the i5,4 and 3 as aces that constantly dodge everything and only plink a damage every now and then, while your i1s stay out of the fight for as long as possible. That is not easy and quite possibly not the best (or most fun!) way to play that game. But it can work.

This is a good point, and one @RStan has brought up to me, is simply changing my setup a little different and my approach to not over-expose the I1s. Rather than change the list, change the tactics.

Range control with the blues is key. Also don't be afraid to 5 straight, focus, boost them to get in for blocks even if you aren't getting a shot with it round 1. This means that when you place them on the mat during setup you are already planning on how you are going to maneuver them to set up a 5 straight lane, and ideally multiple options for 5 straight lanes.

Turn 0 is really important for your low initiatives, and less important for high init because the latter is going to be reacting to what they do anyway.

On 7/20/2019 at 1:25 PM, gennataos said:

I watched @kenoslaw UK GC games. @kenoslaw uses a setup like I did with XXAA, with a pair of A-Wings in each corner and one in the middle. I do think there's room for using both that setup and Rtan's opening , match-up dependent. Like, in @kenoslaw 's final against Sam, it seemed the two I1's were over-exposed against the fast Jedi. There wasn't time to converge all arcs on a single ship like in the two other games. It seems to me that against a list with multiple fast ace-type ships, @RStan 's opening position might be preferred. Against anything else, I think I lean toward @kenoslaw 's, because that makes it harder on the opponent to pick a target than just generally heading toward the side/corner where the A-Wings are set up.

Great stuff. I wish I'd gotten actively involved in this far earlier.

Do you have a pointer to these games? I'm not sure what I'm looking for on YouTube, so nothing's coming up for me, and I'd love to see that setup. Going to try and tackle flying this squad.

16 hours ago, doweaver said:

Do you have a pointer to these games? I'm not sure what I'm looking for on YouTube, so nothing's coming up for me, and I'd love to see that setup. Going to try and tackle flying this squad.

if I were you I would not waste my time with a-wings:) - u did very well with them - u should ride this pony and see where it takes you

19 hours ago, doweaver said:

Do you have a pointer to these games? I'm not sure what I'm looking for on YouTube, so nothing's coming up for me, and I'd love to see that setup. Going to try and tackle flying this squad.

I'm not sure what you're looking for. Generally with 5A, I block when it's effective, utilize the rear arc when it's safest and turn around earlier than I'd like, but the net gain on turning now is usually better than that one last rear arc shot.

1 hour ago, gennataos said:

I'm not sure what you're looking for. Generally with 5A, I block when it's effective, utilize the rear arc when it's safest and turn around earlier than I'd like, but the net gain on turning now is usually better than that one last rear arc shot.

Sorry, should've been more specific. You mentioned looking at @kenoslaw 's opening from the UK GC, but I can't track down those games. Earlier in the thread you had posted that you were looking for them, and then said you found them, but there wasn't a link or anything

7 minutes ago, doweaver said:

Sorry, should've been more specific. You mentioned looking at @kenoslaw 's opening from the UK GC, but I can't track down those games. Earlier in the thread you had posted that you were looking for them, and then said you found them, but there wasn't a link or anything

Here is the final. I think there's another game or two from Firestorm as well.

One thing I really want to be clear on, if you're somewhat new to the squad, @doweaver ...this squad makes for a long day at a tournament. Most, if not all, of your games will go to time. Most, if not all, of your A-Wings will be on fire or dead. The individual ship decision-making process isn't too hard, they're easy and fun to fly, but getting the whole squad to coalesce can sometimes be taxing. If you take it to a 6+ round tournament...buckle in.

7 hours ago, gennataos said:

One thing I really want to be clear on, if you're somewhat new to the squad, @doweaver ...this squad makes for a long day at a tournament. Most, if not all, of your games will go to time. Most, if not all, of your A-Wings will be on fire or dead. The individual ship decision-making process isn't too hard, they're easy and fun to fly, but getting the whole squad to coalesce can sometimes be taxing. If you take it to a 6+ round tournament...buckle in.

Appreciate the words of warning I'm under no delusions that this list will (almost) ever take a game to full destruction, unless I mess up badly. I actually flew this squad a handful of times months ago and gave up on it for that very reason, but I've since basically given up on total destruction happening with any regularity in high-level 2.0 play.

Anyone have thoughts on how the new wave will impact this list? My gut reaction is that the things that are really scary to me in this wave (Sun Fac and precog) aren’t as scary to A-Wings, since they’re fast enough to keep away from Sun Fac and have enough arcs to lay shots on precog ships

...but I have very few reps with this list and none with the new wave, so I’m not sure how bad that take is 😝

A-wings seem to be SunFac killers, just get arcs on him and he'll die eventually, tbh separatists are not the faction to be afraid of, ps6 Proton torps are though (looking at ywing Anakin with his sidekicks)

3 hours ago, kenoslaw said:

A-wings seem to be SunFac killers, just get arcs on him and he'll die eventually, tbh separatists are not the faction to be afraid of, ps6 Proton torps are though (looking at ywing Anakin with his sidekicks)

Do the Republic Ys have torp slots? I thought those packs didn't show any ordinance...

4 hours ago, doweaver said:

Anyone have thoughts on how the new wave will impact this list? My gut reaction is that the things that are really scary to me in this wave (Sun Fac and precog) aren’t as scary to A-Wings, since they’re fast enough to keep away from Sun Fac and have enough arcs to lay shots on precog ships

...but I have very few reps with this list and none with the new wave, so I’m not sure how bad that take is 😝

Bombs are scary to low HP ships.

Ywings, especially these, like bombs.

They have ordnance 😜

@GreenDragoon - I hope you don't mind me piggy-backing off of your work here. If you want me to start a new post, let me know, but I figured perhaps we can just carry on discussing 5A here

Took 5A (Talli+crack/Greer/Zari+crack/Blues, all with Heroic and AO) to a HST trial with 5A and went 4-2. The key game I lost was against Cova/Jess/Bastian/Finn, and I biffed it badly enough that it felt worth of a recap in my mind to try and figure out what went wrong and how I can do better in the future.

Vs. Cova/Jess/Bastian/Finn (9/14 @ Mox Bellevue HST) (recreating as best I can remember and fudging movement between rounds to get the board state as close as I can to how it was)

Obstacle placement : Clouds for him, small rocks for me. I can’t be shooting through clouds under any circumstances, so tuck them into the corner. I beileve he corners one of the rocks, and then I place the one in the middle field. Don’t recall who put the gas cloud in the south field.

Opponent's deciding action and my target priority : Avoid shooting Finn and Jess, try and snipe either Bastian/Cova, who are much less defensive. If I can get 1.5 of those two without giving up two full A-Wings, I’m good.

Deployment and gameplan for the first turns : I went with @kenoslaw 's opening, with the Blues on the open side. I want to draw him downfield (engaging Cova in a corner is a disaster), so I’ll stall with the Blues while I bring my named pilots along the side. See if I can get him to bite on a group and then turn with that group and use rear arcs.

First engage: He turned downfield immediately and came at my blues. OBSTACLE PLACEMENT MISTAKE - the fact that the west field was so clear meant that he could easily turn it at any point. It might’ve been better to risk the occasional gas cloud shot to clutter up the field. I messed up with Talli and thought I’d be able to bring her around with Zari, but misjudged a barrel roll + boost and had to abort, which meant she wasn’t involved in the initial engagement. ENGAGEMENT MISTAKE - I’m splitting fire. He is too, but his ships are good enough alone to push damage. I take a couple shields from Cova with Zari, he strips the shields from a Blue.

Next turn: I keep moving east with the Blues, hoping he’ll chase. I turn Talli east, rather than sending her in and risking her. ENGAGEMENT MISTAKE - I’m playing way too scared. He’s too smart to chase the Blues, and turns the X-Wings towards Zari. I don’t have enough guns on target and do no damage in this exchange, Zari loses shields, and Finn puts a card through on to the Blue.

Next turn: I’ve left Zari completely out to dry. He hedges and turns the X-Wings one way and Cova the other, and she dodges arc on the X-Wings only to eat a modded R1 from Cova that finishes her. At this point I’ve trade 1.5 As for 2 shields on Cova, and the game is effectively over.

What I should’ve done: If I get five shots on Finn in a round, he’s dead. My Blue can also block the Resistance block (except for Cova, of course, who’s probably doing a white stop or reverse *grumble grumble*. I should definitely get all my guns on target in the first engage, and it’s perhaps worth considering just straight jousting. Gut says I lose 1.5 A-Wings in that exchange, but it might be worth it to get Finn off the board?

Imo i’m missing one big Engage. In one for first 3-5 turns where you go preferably 5s focus boost with most of your ships. Blues are bumping smth. Key is also follow up when you when you do 3 banks/5s with specialists and ps1s stay for bumps (or fly away for rear-shots as(s)well). You kinda approached his formation and instead od going balls deep - disengaged and started going for potshots. My experience is that normal engage is bad for awings, as you tend to lose on long game, unless you’ll mass damage in first engage.

Yup, exactly that. Another more general takeaway for me here is that, even if I don’t like my odds of engaging at some point, I have to consider the alternative. I was probably already screwed by my positioning after the first engage and turning in wasn’t going to give me a good chance of winning... but running gave me basically NO chance. 10% > 1%, or whatever.

My football coach told me once after i failed to tackle my guy, i took wrong angle and kind „gave up” and blocker removed me from the board xD he said that even when making a mistake do it 100%, at least hit someone else. Compile this advice and poker chances to win at xwing xD

I took 5As to the south Orlando trial this weekend. Ended up winning (3rd after swiss).

I dropped optics on Tali to get a green instead of a blue, which put me at 198. I hit lots of swarms, not a whole lot of aces. No opponents with less than 4 ships.

I generally opened with the PS1 on the inside of a corner lane, with the green and Zari to the outside. Greer and Tali set up on the opposite corner. The blue always 3 hards toward the center, with the other groups turning or heading up the side depending on the opponents deployment. 90% of the time opponents go for Tali/Greer which gives Zari and the green a pretty free run at their side. Zari can be wonderfully agressive given her ability to still focus on a bump.

Blue Squadron Recruit (33)
Heroic (1)
Advanced Optics (4)

Ship total: 38 Half Points: 19 Threshold: 2

Green Squadron Expert (35)
Heroic (1)
Advanced Optics (4)

Ship total: 40 Half Points: 20 Threshold: 2

Greer Sonnel (36)
Crack Shot (1)
Heroic (1)
Advanced Optics (4)

Ship total: 42 Half Points: 21 Threshold: 2

Zari Bangel (35)
Heroic (1)
Advanced Optics (4)

Ship total: 40 Half Points: 20 Threshold: 2

Tallissan Lintra (36)
Crack Shot (1)
Heroic (1)

Ship total: 38 Half Points: 19 Threshold: 2


Total: 198

View in Yet Another Squad Builder 2.0: https://raithos.github.io/?f=Resistance&d=v8ZhZ200Z301X172WW186Y300X172WWW186Y270X116W172WW186Y271X172WWW186Y240X116W172WW&sn=5A PS3s&obs=

Congrats on the win, @Dunderwood ! I actually love the I1 as a blocker, but I've also been tempted to give up Optics on Talli in the past, since she's often shooting before she knows if she might need it on defense.

I've been starting with the Blues on one side, Greer in the middle, and Zari and Talli on the other side. I find that the middle A-Wing is the one that ends up rotating most often, so like having the flexibility of Greer there.

So, has anyone tried Snap Shots on the RZ-2s? Five Blue Squadron Recruits with Snap is 200 points on the nose, but do you think that Heroic+Advanced optics is a better option? One could also fit four Green Squadron Experts with Snap Shot and Juke, but I am afraid 49 points is a bit too much for those fragile A-wings?

Any thoughts?