Hello,

I am new to Deathwatch and am preparing as a GM for a new gaming group.

I already used the search function of the forum but could not find an answer to my question:

Can Tyranids parry?

In the Core Rulebook on p.133 under "Natural Weapons" it says:

"This creature...counts as being armed even when not wielding weapons. (...) it cannot parry with its natural weapons, nor can it be disarmed."

And on p.132 under "Improved Natural Weapons" it says: "This creature's attacks...do not count as Primitive."

But it does not say, that a Tyranid can parry with this weapons.

And on p.242 under "Parry" it says: "If the active character is wielding a melee weapon capable of Parrying, he can attempt to thwart an incoming melee attack (...).

Does that mean, all in all, that all Tyranids with "Improved Natural Weapons" cannot parry, only dodge (if they can)?

And if so, can a Dagon Overlord (Mark of the Xenos, p.39) and a Tyranid Warrior Prime (MoX, p.52) use their Boneswords (Corerulebook, p.373) to parry?

I am just a bit surprised fluff-wise, because I thought, Tyrandis were close combat masters and could use their claws and talons to parry attacks from swords etc.

Thank you in advance for your answers!

Phoenix41

Yes, by RAW you can't parry with Natural or Improved Natural Weapon, listed in the adversaries sheets in brackets after Trait mention, but all weapons listed in the table 13-3 (Corebook p.373) are separate weapons, so Bonesword can be used to parry without any problems.

Hmm, okay - so a Bonesword and a Lash Wip can be used to parry (table 13-3, p.373) but Scything Talons and Rending Claws not because they are always named as Improved Natural Weapons in brackets after the Tait, right?

As DW is of 2010 - does anyone have experiences with the balancing? Will Tyranids be overpowered if one allows parrying with Improved Natural Weapons, too?

8 hours ago, Phoenix41 said:

Scything Talons and Rending Claws not because they are always named as Improved Natural Weapons in brackets after the Tait, right?

Some Tyranids - Lictor for example - have both Talons and Claws, but only Talons are mentioned under Natural Weapon.. but mainly you are right.

8 hours ago, Phoenix41 said:

Will Tyranids be overpowered if one allows parrying with Improved Natural Weapons, too?

I don't think so. But honestly most "troops" level tyranids are used in Hordes anyway and single Elite and Master-level creatures have better chances with Dodge.

RAW, they could with "equipment", but not any "Natural Weapons".

But there seems to be no references to Parry or modifiers thereof in things they use (Balanced/Defensive/Unbalanced/Unwieldy weapon qualities, talents, etc), so they probably are not supposed to do it, only swarm or Dodge.

On 10/23/2018 at 7:55 AM, Jargal said:

I don't think so. But honestly most "troops" level tyranids are used in Hordes anyway and single Elite and Master-level creatures have better chances with Dodge. 

Hmmm, speaking of Dodge with Elite- and Masterlevel creatures, I found the following:

The Tyranid Warrior (Elite) (Core Rulebook p.371) does not have the Dodge skill and could only use Dodge as an untrained basic Skill, so he had to roll 22 or less (Ag44/ 2) and cannot parry.

The Hive Tyrant (Master) (CR p.370) is almost the same and the Dagon Overlord (MotX p.39) does not have Dodge but can parry with his boneswords and WS 81 which is pretty good in close combat.

The only two who *could* dodge are the Lictor (MotX p. 42) and the Purestrain Genestealer (MotX p. 44). The Lictor has "Dodge (Ag)+10" and "Unnatural Agility (x2)" as has the Purestrain Genestealer.

So they would dodge successfully on a 60 or less (Ag40 +10 Dodge +10 as per the rules on p.136 [Core Rulebook] which say that a Skill Test on an Unnatural Characteristic is staged downwards one level for degree of multiplier past normal).

In close combat, the Lictor would be better off parrying with his Rending Claws (WS 65) and the Purestrain Genestealer could not parry at all (he has no weapons for that).

Is that correct?

Thank you in advance!

Phoenix41

17 hours ago, Phoenix41 said:

Is that correct?

You're right. I've rechecked the books and yes, most troops have Dodge, and most Elite&Masters don't have it. I was sure that it was opposite.