1 hour ago, Schmoozies said:But Aramoro (through their mother's side) is if memory serves so there could be a chance that it could still be a matter to consider.
His mother was a Yogo shugenja, so the curse possibility is real (although he never fulfilled it in the old lore).
That being said, if it happen in the new lore, he will certainly betray Kachiko.
1 hour ago, Tabris2k said:His mother was a Yogo shugenja, so the curse possibility is real (although he never fulfilled it in the old lore).
That being said, if it happen in the new lore, he will certainly betray Kachiko.
Old lore there was a mention at one point that Yogo were forbidden from marrying outside the family until after their personal curse had gone off just to avoid the whole clan becoming a ticking time bomb. However that said there were cases where either the effect was mistaken to have gone off, or illicit children slipped into the general Scorpion clan mix which meant that the trait could be found in any Scorpion family to a lesser extent so really the whole clan could still be a ticking bomb waiting to go off.
20 hours ago, phillos said:Making a suggestion to the emperor is one thing. Rigging a high profile tournament like the Emerald Champs is another.
For Kachiko, this is a distinction without a difference.
1 hour ago, Schmoozies said:Old lore there was a mention at one point that Yogo were forbidden from marrying outside the family until after their personal curse had gone off just to avoid the whole clan becoming a ticking time bomb. However that said there were cases where either the effect was mistaken to have gone off, or illicit children slipped into the general Scorpion clan mix which meant that the trait could be found in any Scorpion family to a lesser extent so really the whole clan could still be a ticking bomb waiting to go off.
"Hey little Ichiro, isn't this a nice vase?"
"Yeah!"
"Do you love it, Ichiro?"
"Yeah!"
"Okay, for the love you have for that vase and for mommy, don't break it, okay?"
"Yeah!" *toddler plays with delicate vase, drops and breaks it* "Waaaaaa!"
"Yes, Curse fulfilled! He loved it!"
Edited by Hida Jitenno2 minutes ago, Hida Jitenno said:"Hey little Ichiro, isn't this a nice vase?"
"Yeah!"
"Do you love it, Ichiro?"
"Yeah!"
"Okay, for the love you have for that vase and for mommy, don't break it, okay?"
"Yeah!" *toddler plays with delicate vase, drops and breaks it* "Waaaaaa!"
"Yes, Curse fulfilled! He loved it!"
How soon can we get Ichiro married off to another clan. gotta start spreading that curse love.
Just now, Schmoozies said:How soon can we get Ichiro married off to another clan. gotta start spreading that curse love.
Get me a nakado! I had a Scorpion Nakado NPC in a game I ran. Arranged a Crane-Phoenix Marriage and a Crane-Unicorn Affair for the same woman.
34 minutes ago, Hida Jitenno said:Get me a nakado! I had a Scorpion Nakado NPC in a game I ran. Arranged a Crane-Phoenix Marriage and a Crane-Unicorn Affair for the same woman.
"For the love of the Kami, that is NOT what you are SUPPOSED to do!"
"All in the game, yo."
3 hours ago, Schmoozies said:Old lore there was a mention at one point that Yogo were forbidden from marrying outside the family until after their personal curse had gone off just to avoid the whole clan becoming a ticking time bomb. However that said there were cases where either the effect was mistaken to have gone off, or illicit children slipped into the general Scorpion clan mix which meant that the trait could be found in any Scorpion family to a lesser extent so really the whole clan could still be a ticking bomb waiting to go off.
There were even cases between the Asako (as Yogo was Asako’s husband), although very rare. But the Asako were aware of the curse, and some of them sensed it lingering over them.
2 hours ago, Hida Jitenno said:"Hey little Ichiro, isn't this a nice vase?"
"Yeah!"
"Do you love it, Ichiro?"
"Yeah!"
"Okay, for the love you have for that vase and for mommy, don't break it, okay?"
"Yeah!" *toddler plays with delicate vase, drops and breaks it* "Waaaaaa!"
"Yes, Curse fulfilled! He loved it!"
I know you’re joking, but actually trying to fulfill the curse intentionally was worse than letting it happen naturally, because it can draw the attention of the kansen, so the misery of the curse was multiplied and the effects could extend to the whole family.
15 hours ago, Magnus Grendel said:
Bayushi Kachiko, his wife, and the Imperial Advisor, who may or may not be cheating on him with the Doji Hotaru, the Crane Clan champion, one of his most important political rivals.
There is no maybe about it. Even Shizue's cat knows they are hooking up. The real question to ask is are Kachiko's feelings genuine or is she just manipulating Hotaru. The answer is probably both. I feel the real question to ask is is it all a setup by The First Couple of Rokugan to compromise the Crane Champion. Hotaru has a lot more to lose from the affair than Kachiko does. Hotaru is being compromised by the enemy, Kachiko is manipulating a pawn. While this is not necessarily true, it is a very easy message to sell.
.
Edited by DarkHorseIf it's all a set up then they're playing their cards pretty close to the chest. Judging from the downloadable sequel adventure for the rpg, Kachiko's brother is aware of the affair and is none too pleased because he sees it as a betrayal of the clan.
Kachiko's brother sees anything that makes her happy as a betrayal of the clan.
15 hours ago, Tonbo Karasu said:I think the answer to that is no. The curse on Yogo was a curse on his bloodline. Asami is not of his bloodline.
14 hours ago, Schmoozies said:But Aramoro (through their mother's side) is if memory serves so there could be a chance that it could still be a matter to consider.
True, but that would put any betrayal going the other way, with aramoro....
.....Oh bugger. Is Aramoro Shoju's brother or half brother? That's a nasty thought.
13 hours ago, Tabris2k said:His mother was a Yogo shugenja, so the curse possibility is real (although he never fulfilled it in the old lore).
That being said, if it happen in the new lore, he will certainly betray Kachiko.
I would agree. Although whether 'creepy stalker-level obsession' qualifies as 'love' for the curse is a different question.
But hey, fairytale story magic allows it to qualify as 'true love's kiss' whilst one party is rendered unconscious with magical drugs, so what do I know?
11 hours ago, Manchu said:For Kachiko, this is a distinction without a difference.
Agreed. But the distinction is 'doing it because I want it' and 'doing it behind my back because you want it'.
8 hours ago, DarkHorse said:There is no maybe about it. Even Shizue's cat knows they are hooking up.
To an extent it was being sarcastic (they clearly are). I guess there is a question of the extent of any cheating (and the extent people are aware of it) as opposed to just what they clearly want to do.
8 hours ago, DarkHorse said:I feel the real question to ask is is it all a setup by The First Couple of Rokugan to compromise the Crane Champion. Hotaru has a lot more to lose from the affair than Kachiko does. Hotaru is being compromised by the enemy, Kachiko is manipulating a pawn. While this is not necessarily true, it is a very easy message to sell.
Hence why a big part of the question is whether Shoju is aware of it, in which case doing nothing can be construed as some level of tacit approval. For public consumption, I'm sure he would imply he knew - or more likely, being Shoju, not answer at all and have you lightly assassinated for impertinence - but that's not quite the same thing.
6 hours ago, Kaito Kikaze said:Judging from the downloadable sequel adventure for the rpg, Kachiko's brother is aware of the affair and is none too pleased because he sees it as a betrayal of the clan.
3 hours ago, shineyorkboy said:Kachiko's brother sees anything that makes her happy as a betrayal of the clan.
Indeed - in fact it explicitely says that in those words (what happy families the scorpion have!).
Whilst he clearly knows Kachiko and Hotaru have a relationship, he may not necessarily know how deep it goes if based at the Emerald Fortress, given Asami's deceptions. If he doesn't know the full story and is this angry, it'd be interesting to see how he'd react if he found out...
2 minutes ago, Magnus Grendel said:....Oh bugger. Is Aramoro Shoju's brother or half brother? That's a nasty thought.
Half brother. Shoju’s mother died giving birth to him. His father later remarried to a Yogo shugenja.
4 minutes ago, Magnus Grendel said:I would agree. Although whether 'creepy stalker-level obsession' qualifies as 'love' for the curse is a different question.
In the eyes of Aramoro, there’s nothing more important than Kachiko, not even his own son and wife, not even his brother and Clan Champion, and not even his clan. That makes Kachiko the best curse-target.
7 minutes ago, Magnus Grendel said:Hence why a big part of the question is whether Shoju is aware of it, in which case doing nothing can be construed as some level of tacit approval.
Knowing (and approving of) that your wife/husband has an affair is pretty common in Rokugan. Love is not present in the majority of marriages, so looking for it outside of the relationship is normal... as long as is not made public. That’s the real shame there. Also, as much as you love your lover, you’re a samurai, so is still expected to put Duty over them. Duty to the one you’re married to, and to your clan.
As long as Shoju thinks that Kachiko is still loyal to the Scorpion, he has no reason to forbid the relationship.
45 minutes ago, Tabris2k said:As long as Shoju thinks that Kachiko is still loyal to the Scorpion, he has no reason to forbid the relationship.
Loyal to the Scorpion Clan and the Empire.
I don't think Shoju has any doubts about the former (at least as of 'the World, a Stage'); but I think any concerns he has are more that she sees it as "what's good for Bayushi Kachiko is good for the Empire of Rokugan"..
1 hour ago, Magnus Grendel said:lightly assassinated
How exactly do you lightly assassinate someone? I was under the impression that you were either assassinated or you weren't, not that there were degrees.
38 minutes ago, Magnus Grendel said:but I think any concerns he has are more that she sees it as "what's good for Bayushi Kachiko is good for the Empire of Rokugan"
Right, as we all know it's "what's good for the Crab is good for the Empire."
1 hour ago, shineyorkboy said:How exactly do you lightly assassinate someone? I was under the impression that you were either assassinated or you weren't, not that there were degrees
You know, just have someone murdered a bit. A warning shot to the head usually gets the message across.
One of my favourite lines in a 40k novel (Eater of Worlds) feels like an argument I expect my players to be having in L5R at some point:
"You killed him!"
"It was a fair fight."
"It was supposed to be 'to first blood'!"
"It was."
"You DECAPITATED him!"
"And there was a lot of 'first blood'."
36 minutes ago, Magnus Grendel said:You know, just have someone murdered a bit. A warning shot to the head usually gets the message across.
One of my favourite lines in a 40k novel (Eater of Worlds) feels like an argument I expect my players to be having in L5R at some point:
"You killed him!"
"It was a fair fight."
"It was supposed to be 'to first blood'!"
"It was."
"You DECAPITATED him!"
"And there was a lot of 'first blood'."
When Hida Yakamo swung for the fences and blasted Mirumoto Satsu in the face during a surprise tetsubo duel, it was a bit like that.
7 hours ago, shineyorkboy said:How exactly do you lightly assassinate someone? I was under the impression that you were either assassinated or you weren't, not that there were degrees.
I mean, if there can be degrees of dead (alive, mostly dead , completely dead), why could there not be degrees of assassination?
6 hours ago, Magnus Grendel said:You know, just have someone murdered a bit. A warning shot to the head usually gets the message across.
One of my favourite lines in a 40k novel (Eater of Worlds) feels like an argument I expect my players to be having in L5R at some point:
"You killed him!"
"It was a fair fight."
"It was supposed to be 'to first blood'!"
"It was."
"You DECAPITATED him!"
"And there was a lot of 'first blood'."
World Eaters... *sigh*
5 hours ago, DarkHorse said:When Hida Yakamo swung for the fences and blasted Mirumoto Satsu in the face during a surprise tetsubo duel, it was a bit like that.
So one of Yakamo's character classes in the RPG would have been Murderhobo?
Edited by Mangod4 hours ago, shineyorkboy said:How exactly do you lightly assassinate someone? I was under the impression that you were either assassinated or you weren't, not that there were degrees.
You make it look like an accident instead of a message.
4 hours ago, shineyorkboy said:Right, as we all know it's "what's good for the Crab is good for the Empire."
Preach, Brother Hida.
59 minutes ago, Mangod said:World Eaters... *sigh*
They are, at least, consistent.
57 minutes ago, Mangod said:So one of Yakano's character classes in the RPG would have been Murderhobo?
In fairness to the Crab Thunder, the duel wasn't a surprise (although the Tetsubo certainly was).
25 minutes ago, Magnus Grendel said:They are, at least, consistent.
In fairness to the Crab Thunder, the duel wasn't a surprise (although the Tetsubo certainly was).
And Satsu was told he had to lose as Yakamo was too important to risk losing in a duel at that point..
21 minutes ago, Schmoozies said:And Satsu was told he had to lose as Yakamo was too important to risk losing in a duel at that point..
True, but nothing specifically required him to do an impersonation of a quail's egg hit by a battering ram.
I have to wonder why every single fiction that is written for the Scorpion Clan seems to require including at least one Imperial Families character and making them out to be completely incompetent, foolish and easily beaten.
Sure, it happened in one Unicorn fiction too, but it all seems to be in the Scorpion fiction.
It feels like the Scorpion are desperately compensating for something. The writers so utterly insecure that they can remotely stand on their own that they require a strawman to beat up to assure us that they don't suck nearly as much as it is pretty obvious that they do in a vacuum.
I can only hope that eventually we will get characters with "Seppun", "Otomo" and "Miya" names that can actually be successful at things eventually.
It would be all the funnier if it turns out that the ones so far have always intentionally put on an act to pretend to be weaker than they were and always let the Clan samurai win whenever possible because then the Clan samurai become self-assured, over-confident and motivated to engage with the actual affairs of the empire. As opposed to seeing the Imperials as a challenge and threat that needs to be beaten and instead turning their energy towards defeating them.
"Yeah, we know that Kachiko desperately tries to act sexy to get men to be agreeable to her."
"Yes, we know that the Scorpion think that Miku still works for them."
"Yes, we know that the Scorpion have their ninja run through imperial gardens every now and again, you really thought a trained imperial guard can't see the girl 20 centimers in front of him! We just figured we would let them do their thing and just keep tabs on it so long as they don't step on our toes."
"Obviously our daimyo could beat that courtier in Go, but we don't want him going home feeling and gloomy and hopeless and pass that on to the rest of his clan."
"Yeah, we knew the bodyguard was going to try to assassinate Kachiko-- and that Kachiko was using a body-double. The plan was to kill the body-double forcing Kachiko to either admit she was using one or to have to hide herself permanently."
I think that a lot of that comes from the preeminence of the Scorpion at the moment. They're at the right hand of the Throne and in control of the courts so they have the most consistent and direct interaction with the Imperial Families. It's really the Kachiko vs Shoju debate. Kachiko wants to keep picking on the Imps, and Shoju would rather prosecute a shadow war against groups like the Kolat & the Perfect Land Sect.
Also, if we are headed to some form of a Coup situation or even the upcoming Regency, it doesn't hurt if we have a somewhat negative view of the Imperials to feed into the justification.
Though if you want a 'good' Imperial, we have Seppun Ishikawa.
