3 hours ago, Tabris2k said:

I’m under the impression you’re mixing Ninube and Shosuro.

While Shosuro has black hair (as can be seen in her card), when Ujina looks at her, he does not see Shosuro, he sees an image of Ninube, “her face a perfect arrangement of curves and angles framed by hair so white it glowed [...] smiling at him”.

Which is clearly a trick from the Shadow to lure Ujina and trap him.

I misunderstood @Mangod 's explanation of the Nameless Ones and interpreted as Scorps actually turning them into shinobi (therefore assuming that Ninube was the former identity of Sadako)

Mea Culpa

So, just to clarify:

> Ninube is dead

> Sadako is just your average shadow-branded kunoichi trying to perform her duty and finds herself "ambushed" by Ujina

> Ujina simply is emotionally manipulated by something(or nothing, depending on your point of view) into mistaking her for his dead wife and lower his guard

-

Is that correct?

EDIT: Fixed the name, thx for pointing it out @Tonbo Karasu

6 minutes ago, mirrorcat said:

I misunderstood @Mangod 's explanation of the Nameless Ones and interpreted as Scorps actually turning them into shinobi (therefore assuming that Ninube was the former identity of Shosuro)

Mea Culpa

So, just to clarify:

> Ninube is dead

> Shosuro is just your average shadow-branded kunoichi trying to perform her duty and finds herself "ambushed" by Ujina

> Ujina simply is emotionally manipulated by something(or nothing, depending on your point of view) into mistaking her for his dead wife and lower his guard

-

Is that correct?

Essentially correct, yes.

Your story was great! Keep up the good work!

44 minutes ago, mirrorcat said:

I misunderstood @Mangod 's explanation of the Nameless Ones and interpreted as Scorps actually turning them into shinobi (therefore assuming that Ninube was the former identity of Shosuro)

Mea Culpa

So, just to clarify:

> Ninube is dead

> Shosuro is just your average shadow-branded kunoichi trying to perform her duty and finds herself "ambushed" by Ujina

> Ujina simply is emotionally manipulated by something(or nothing, depending on your point of view) into mistaking her for his dead wife and lower his guard

-

Is that correct?

Again with apologies for pedantry, I'd probably suggest that it is Sadako who is your average shadow-branded kunoichi. Shosuro is the family name and also the personal name of the founder. Normally it wouldn't matter, but since we've also been talking about actual Shosuro, the Scorpion Thunder, I thought it best to clarify (some of the more left-field conspiracy theories say that Soshi [actually Shosuro] is one of the first who disappeared into the shadow and never actually died, so technically could still be around somewhere...)

5 minutes ago, Tonbo Karasu said:

Again with apologies for pedantry, I'd probably suggest that it is Sadako who is your average shadow-branded kunoichi. Shosuro is the family name and also the personal name of the founder. Normally it wouldn't matter, but since we've also been talking about actual Shosuro, the Scorpion Thunder, I thought it best to clarify (some of the more left-field conspiracy theories say that Soshi [actually Shosuro] is one of the first who disappeared into the shadow and never actually died, so technically could still be around somewhere...)

That would be my fault, I called her (incorrectly) Shosuro in a response to @mirrorcat , so he just followed my mistake.

4 hours ago, phillos said:

Nothing (well specifically the Lying Darkness) is usually colored in a more malevolent way since it seeks to unmake creation to return it all to a perfect emptiness. The Void is a much more neutral concept.

Here's the thing...

When the Master of the Void is able to save his half-Shadowspawned daughter from oblivion by naming her, it indicates a parity- that was certainly the case in the old lore. Because there's naming and there's Naming.

If the Void and Nothing were to be either:
1. Not wholly distinct forces, but some sort of continuum

or

2. essentially the same thing from different universal constructs.

it would please me mightily, because I love me some metaphysics.

Well maybe you could view them as two side of the same coin. The emptiness of existence and the emptiness of non-existence. Two flavors of the same chewing gum. In old L5R it feels like they can't be exactly the same thing considering the Lying Darkness is distinct from the Void. Though they are related concepts so maybe it's easier for an Ishiken and a Tejina practitioner to understand each other (and yield similar results).

Of course the Lying Darkness hasn't been established yet (or the Shadow Dragon). All we know is the Scorpions can use shadow brands, which line up with their old L5R depiction. So they could redefine some of this stuff on us. I can't speak for DGL but it does seem deliberate that we see the master of the void along with the introduction of shadow magic in the same story. Perhaps as it's first sin the Nothing created the void. A similar yet distinct concept from which creation was born. I'd think it would be most easy for the lonely Nothing to create something similar to itself as a first step. If it's almost the same concept that explains the striking similarities while allowing for the two concepts to be their own thing.

Well, this pretty much confirms beyond a reasonable doubt that the Nothing still exists, which means the Kolat better still exist too or else reality is screwed.

Also, on the matter of Kaede becoming the new Master of Void I'll just point out that Tamori Nakamuro remained Master of Air for decades despite marrying out of the Clan.

Hatsuko was confirmed right? Kaede leaving allows that story to come up again i suppose. Though honestly I enjoyed the last fiction with her and toturi. maybe not more than i enjoy kaneka.... but i enjoyed it!

17 hours ago, shineyorkboy said:

Well, this pretty much confirms beyond a reasonable doubt that the Nothing still exists, which means the Kolat better still exist too or else reality is screwed.

Nah, they can always give the plot device role to someone else...

8 hours ago, Shiba Gunichi said:

Nah, they can always give the plot device role to someone else...

Giving part of the Kolat's role in the narrative to some other faction would just seem contrived.

Besides it wouldn't make sense. Anyone else who knew about the Nothing for long enough to become effective at fighting it would have made it public knowledge by now. The only reason the Kolat never did was because they and the Nothing had a policy of covert mutually assured destruction, so neither could expose the other without being exposed in turn. That's why when the Nothing finally threw off the masquerade during the War Against the Darkness it started outing Kolat operatives to Shinjo.

4 hours ago, shineyorkboy said:

Giving part of the Kolat's role in the narrative to some other faction would just seem contrived.

Besides it wouldn't make sense. Anyone else who knew about the Nothing for long enough to become effective at fighting it would have made it public knowledge by now. The only reason the Kolat never did was because they and the Nothing had a policy of covert mutually assured destruction, so neither could expose the other without being exposed in turn. That's why when the Nothing finally threw off the masquerade during the War Against the Darkness it started outing Kolat operatives to Shinjo.

Ok, then just give that same knowledge to Scorpion’s Ninja schools.

They know about the Nothing, they know how to fight it, but they have been using its Shadowbrands for so long that they cannot share their knowledge for fear of being questioned about how they got it. More so, they’ll have to admit that ninjas exists, and that they train them.

2 hours ago, Tabris2k said:

Ok, then just give that same knowledge to Scorpion’s Ninja schools.

They know about the Nothing, they know how to fight it, but they have been using its Shadowbrands for so long that they cannot share their knowledge for fear of being questioned about how they got it. More so, they’ll have to admit that ninjas exists, and that they train them.

But the Scorpion don't actually know anything about the Nothing. They just blindly harness its power and unknowingly spread its influence.

I guess that's yet to be established in this continuity. All we know about the Scorpions and the Shadow is what we've learned from this story. I think this stuff is all fertile ground for reworking and telling new interesting stories.

38 minutes ago, shineyorkboy said:

But the Scorpion don't actually know anything about the Nothing. They just blindly harness its power and unknowingly spread its influence.

You are assuming facts that are not yet proven for this version of Rokugan. Much of what we knew is possibly true, but some things aren't, like the race of Kitsu being extinct.

1 minute ago, Tonbo Karasu said:

You are assuming facts that are not yet proven for this version of Rokugan. Much of what we knew is possibly true, but some things aren't, like the race of Kitsu being extinct.

Of the Kitsu are for all intents and purposes extinct as the spoiled one is never making it out of the Binder.

33 minutes ago, Schmoozies said:

Of the Kitsu are for all intents and purposes extinct as the spoiled one is never making it out of the Binder.

That’s only because they’re an endangered species and need to be protected and kept in a controlled environment.

1 hour ago, shineyorkboy said:

But the Scorpion don't actually know anything about the Nothing. They just blindly harness its power and unknowingly spread its influence.

Or they actually do. It’s not like meddling with an evil force in an attempt to control it and, eventually, defeat it is something that never happens in Rokugan... unless you think the Scorpion is above such things.

I wonder how much we are suppose to read into these creature cards coming out this cycle. I don't expect the Dragon to start fielding trolls or the Phoenix to start commanding ningyo in the story. Maybe it's just acknowledging that there were Kitsu and they are tied to the Lion backstory. The Kitsu not being extinct would be huge for the Kitsu characters and their backstory. Are they just hiding themselves now like the Kenku possibly?

15 hours ago, shineyorkboy said:

Giving part of the Kolat's role in the narrative to some other faction would just seem contrived.

Injecting the Kolat into the story for only this reason is more contrived. The fact that only they knew what was up with the LD was bupkiss in the old continuity- it seems to have been invented to get rid of the Kolat as much as anything.

Give the job to a secret part of the Order of Shinsei which was decreed heretical.

Give the job to the Asako Henshin (because guess what, the Kolat do not have a monopoly on keeping secrets from the dawn of the Empire)

Give the job to a subset of the Togashi Tattooed Order (why have they told no one? Because Togashi says so)

Give the job to the Seppun Hidden Guard (secrets secrets secrets)

Give the job to a ronin sect who reject fealty because they used to be a minor clan before their ruling family got erased from reality

Give the job to hidden members of the Five Elder Races.

It's a whole new ballgame, and to assume that because the Kolat were instrumental in the clunky prior incarnation they have to do so again is taking a great deal for granted.

I think what Gunichi is trying to say is

Take the Kolat......

Then turn those sons-o-beetchs sideways and stick 'em straight up yer candy a$$..........If ya smellllllllaaaaah what the Rock is cookin!

......and theme music

10 hours ago, Ishi Tonu said:

I think what Gunichi is trying to say is

Take the Kolat......

Then turn those sons-o-beetchs sideways and stick 'em straight up yer candy a$$..........If ya smellllllllaaaaah what the Rock is cookin!

......and theme music

Hmm, yes, well...

I suppose Gunichi is technically entitled to his opinions no matter how wrong they may be. Fortunately for him I value my time too much to spend it engaging in an internet shouting match.

17 hours ago, Shiba Gunichi said:

Injecting the Kolat into the story for only this reason is more contrived. The fact that only they knew what was up with the LD was bupkiss in the old continuity- it seems to have been invented to get rid of the Kolat as much as anything.

Give the job to a secret part of the Order of Shinsei which was decreed heretical.

Give the job to the Asako Henshin (because guess what, the Kolat do not have a monopoly on keeping secrets from the dawn of the Empire)

Give the job to a subset of the Togashi Tattooed Order (why have they told no one? Because Togashi says so)

Give the job to the Seppun Hidden Guard (secrets secrets secrets)

Give the job to a ronin sect who reject fealty because they used to be a minor clan before their ruling family got erased from reality

Give the job to hidden members of the Five Elder Races.

It's a whole new ballgame, and to assume that because the Kolat were instrumental in the clunky prior incarnation they have to do so again is taking a great deal for granted.

You know, I appreciate just how much you hate the Kolat.

Keep on hating them good sir.

Your passion in regards to this subject is commendable.

Just to note, the phrase used to describe the result of Sadako's assassinations - "apparently of natural causes" - is a fairly huge hint as to who killed Doji Satsume.

16 minutes ago, Manchu said:

Just to note, the phrase used to describe the result of Sadako's assassinations - "apparently of natural causes" - is a fairly huge hint as to who killed Doji Satsume.

Or not, the fact that we've seen no reference in any of the Scorpion fiction of any concern that anyone is looking into Satsume's death is also a hint that they were not involved.