12 hours ago, Shiba Gunichi said:

So it seems that while the Phoenix are likely wrong about Meishodo as such being responsible (witness the Iuchi's description in this story, which I dearly wish an open-minded Isawa shugenja had been around to hear), it's quite possible that various talismans from their time in the Burning Sands may very well be at fault- but one wonders why the djinn are active in Phoenix lands...

I've been pondering this myself, and there's a couple of possibilities that came to mind. The first (and potentially more sinister) possibility is that the djinn are in Phoenix lands due to the Unicorn pilgrims traveling to the Ki-rin shrine. They may have simply detached themselves from the Unicorn they were following, spreading like fleas from a dog (no offense intended), or perhaps Someone deliberately released them along the pilgrimage trail...

The other possibility is that the djinn are drawn to Phoenix lands because of the density of kami and places of power/shrines there. It seems they are particularly keen to take over the shrines and kick out local kami that are receiving offerings, since the fiction suggests this is quite widespread through Phoenix lands. As the popular spots filled up in our lands, the invading spirits are spreading out beyond our borders to nearby places of power.

One more possibility is that the Talisman Kaede saw contains a very powerful djinn lord, or something similar, and although contained (for now), it may be able to influence or direct its fellow invading spirits. Thus it may perceive the Phoenix as a threat, and sent its minions to Phoenix lands to disrupt the local kami and the Phoenix shugenjas' ability to combat whatever plot is afoot. Or since the Talisman contains it, perhaps there is someone using it and the spirit it contains to direct these foul schemes...

21 minutes ago, Kaito Kikaze said:

One more possibility is that the Talisman Kaede saw contains a very powerful djinn lord, or something similar, and although contained (for now), it may be able to influence or direct its fellow invading spirits.

That would be even more detrimental to the Unicorn image.

i don't think they'll develope the story in a way that'd incriminate the clan. My wild guess is that meishodo will receive some sort of redemption and perhaps become a mean for everyone (with proper training) to directly interact with Kami, regardless of their shugenja talent or even play as an alternative in case the traditional ways become tainted due to maho/imbalance

on the other hand, the idea of a Djinn crusade to rescue their king/lord does sound entertaining...

6 minutes ago, mirrorcat said:

That would be even more detrimental to the Unicorn image.

I don't know that it would be more detrimental per se though if it's something being controlled by specific people. Assuming that the guilt can be pinned to a particular Bad Guy or Girl, or an Evil Cult, rather than the clan as a whole.

3 minutes ago, Kaito Kikaze said:

I don't know that it would be more detrimental per se though if it's something being controlled by specific people. Assuming that the guilt can be pinned to a particular Bad Guy or Girl, or an Evil Cult, rather than the clan as a whole.

The problem is when that Bad Girl is the daughter of the Unicorn Champion, which was send by the Unicorn to the Imperial Palace, no less, and also seems to be becoming best friends with a certain imperial prince called Daisetsu.

2 minutes ago, Tabris2k said:

The problem is when that Bad Girl is the daughter of the Unicorn Champion, which was send by the Unicorn to the Imperial Palace, no less, and also seems to be becoming best friends with a certain imperial prince called Daisetsu.

I don't think she's the Champion's daughter, don't they specify Shahai is the half-sister of her kids? I think Shahai is the Champ's baby daddy's kid by another (out-of-wedlock) relationship.

ADD: Suddenly I realize the Unicorn are the ghetto trailer trash of the empire, AND they're spreading these djinn like fleas...no wonder no one likes them, lol.

Where was this introduced?

looks like a need to re-read some story inserts

9 minutes ago, mirrorcat said:

Where was this introduced?

looks like a need to re-read some story inserts

They don't get very explicit in explaining the circumstances, but it's subtly discussed in "Family Duty" from the Into the Forbidden City pack insert.

24 minutes ago, Kaito Kikaze said:

They don't get very explicit in explaining the circumstances, but it's subtly discussed in "Family Duty" from the Into the Forbidden City pack insert.

I revisited the insert and aside from the champion's kids reluctance to make a dagger for her and (in another event story) her father mentioning that sharing the meishodo secrets would alienate her from the clan, i can't seem to find anything suggesti her friendship with the prince.

did i miss something?

2 minutes ago, mirrorcat said:

I revisited the insert and aside from the champion's kids reluctance to make a dagger for her and (in another event story) her father mentioning that sharing the meishodo secrets would alienate her from the clan, i can't seem to find anything suggesti her friendship with the prince.

did i miss something?

Oh that, I thought you were talking about the half-sister thing, lol.

Friendship with the prince. Hmm. I don't think there's any fiction from the LCG that actually confirms this as a thing. I think so far at least that's just players projecting old lore onto the new story, since in the past there was a connection between Shahai and that timeline's version of Daisetsu, Daigotsu.

11 minutes ago, mirrorcat said:

I revisited the insert and aside from the champion's kids reluctance to make a dagger for her and (in another event story) her father mentioning that sharing the meishodo secrets would alienate her from the clan, i can't seem to find anything suggesti her friendship with the prince.

did i miss something?

Its wholly being drawn form O5R where Shahai (a prominant member of the Bloodspeaker cult of Iuchiban) and Daigotsu (the O5R version of Daisetsu who was raised in a Bloodspeaker cult after his mother who was pregnant with him was attacked while traveling and it was believed he died when they sacrificed her in a ritual) were a couple and their son became the first Champion of the Spider Clan when Daigotsu ascended to the Heavens and they were recognized as a great Clan by the Empress.

^ What @Schmoozies said. In other words, it has even less merit than Mantis becoming a Great Clan.

I still think the Shadowlands are behind everything. So either the djinn have been bribed or controlled by Fu Leng or have been driven out if their homes into Rokugan or something.

3 minutes ago, Kaito Kikaze said:

^ What @Schmoozies said. In other words, it has even less merit than Mantis becoming a Great Clan.

Them's is fighting words, after all its only inevitable that the Mantis will become the Greatest Clan, with all the money as an added bonus. After all everyone seems to love the services of Kudaka that we are lending out and eventually you are all going to need to pay the piper for that loan.

1 minute ago, HamHamJ2 said:

I still think the Shadowlands are behind everything. So either the djinn have been bribed or controlled by Fu Leng or have been driven out if their homes into Rokugan or something.

Just please don't give me a Dark Oracle of Fire story again.

4 minutes ago, Schmoozies said:

Them's is fighting words, after all its only inevitable that the Mantis will become the Greatest Clan, with all the money as an added bonus. After all everyone seems to love the services of Kudaka that we are lending out and eventually you are all going to need to pay the piper for that loan.

I'm totally fine with Mantis becoming a great clan. Just...don't invade Phoenix lands this time. You can have Crane's lands. lol.

2 minutes ago, Kaito Kikaze said:

I'm totally fine with Mantis becoming a great clan. Just...don't invade Phoenix lands this time. You can have Crane's lands. lol.

I agree it never made sense for the Mantis Invasion of the Phoenix (Kolat plot, something, something profit) but I put half of that down to the story team at the time and the fact that we saw two arcs where the story lead changed halfway through so there were a lot of plot threads that seemed dropped or ended up very rushed.

3 minutes ago, Kaito Kikaze said:

I'm totally fine with Mantis becoming a great clan. Just...don't invade Phoenix lands this time. You can have Crane's lands. lol.

I see what you are doing there Kaito.

Offering the mantis the useless tsunami destroyed lands of the crane to placate them.

I approve. ☺️

Just now, Vulcan646 said:

I see what you are doing there Kaito.

Offering the mantis the useless tsunami destroyed lands of the crane to placate them.

I approve. ☺️

Hey mainland harbors work for us. Its amazing what you can find just sitting around to help set up a new base if you aren't too picky about where if came from.

3 minutes ago, Schmoozies said:

Hey mainland harbors work for us. Its amazing what you can find just sitting around to help set up a new base if you aren't too picky about where if came from.

Fair enough.

I can get behind finding the value in things that other clans overlook.

Also, on a side note, I still think it's hilarious that the Crane clan's shipments are being hijacked to sell to the Crab.

49 minutes ago, HamHamJ2 said:

I still think the Shadowlands are behind everything. So either the djinn have been bribed or controlled by Fu Leng or have been driven out if their homes into Rokugan or something.

He puzzling thing here is that (according to the map) Phoenix land is in the northen-east corner of Rokugan, with Crane(south), Lion and dragon (west) while on thenotherside sits the ocean. Therefore,assuming the Djinn have migrated/been transported there, either:

- Mantis gave them a free cruise (those scoundrels)

- The sect in dragon's land somehow learned how to use meishodo and came in possesion of a djinn (maybe thanks to a Unicorn defector)

- Unicorn boy wasn't as innocent as we may be lead to believe ( i mean.. How come nobody is questioning thenfact that this young lad, clearly experienced in gaijin magic, resorted to questioning all of the Kami in his pilgrimage instead of adopting a more orthodox approach to find his dad? It does sound suspicious)

- the Kami of the Pond racked up quite the debt at the "Dust Devil Casino" and Don John the Djinn sent one of his lads to send its regards

14 minutes ago, mirrorcat said:

He puzzling thing here is that (according to the map) Phoenix land is in the northen-east corner of Rokugan, with Crane(south), Lion and dragon (west) while on thenotherside sits the ocean. Therefore,assuming the Djinn have migrated/been transported there, either:

- Mantis gave them a free cruise (those scoundrels)

- The sect in dragon's land somehow learned how to use meishodo and came in possesion of a djinn (maybe thanks to a Unicorn defector)

- Unicorn boy wasn't as innocent as we may be lead to believe ( i mean.. How come nobody is questioning thenfact that this young lad, clearly experienced in gaijin magic, resorted to questioning all of the Kami in his pilgrimage instead of adopting a more orthodox approach to find his dad? It does sound suspicious)

- the Kami of the Pond racked up quite the debt at the "Dust Devil Casino" and Don John the Djinn sent one of his lads to remind it to receive the sum

The burning sands were supposed to extend to the North and West of the Empire and also bordered on Yobanjin lands so its not outside the realm of possibility that a group of Yobanjin may have stumbled across something and sicked it on the Empire.

25 minutes ago, Schmoozies said:

The burning sands were supposed to extend to the North and West of the Empire and also bordered on Yobanjin lands so its not outside the realm of possibility that a group of Yobanjin may have stumbled across something and sicked it on the Empire.

That wouldn’t surprise me. Those damń Yobanjin. They’re almost as incultured and savages as the Mantis.

Almost.

The thing to keep in mind is that the records of changes occurring actually indicate this has been going on for a long time now, it's just been gradually increasing. That, to me at least, seems an increased likelihood that the djinn in Phoenix lands are the result of Unicorn pilgrims (who are given free permission to pass through no questions asked!) either intentionally or accidentally bringing these outsider spirits with them.

2 minutes ago, Kaito Kikaze said:

The thing to keep in mind is that the records of changes occurring actually indicate this has been going on for a long time now, it's just been gradually increasing. That, to me at least, seems an increased likelihood that the djinn in Phoenix lands are the result of Unicorn pilgrims (who are given free permission to pass through no questions asked!) either intentionally or accidentally bringing these outsider spirits with them.

If intentional, to what purpose? Messing up the elemental balance in the Phoenix and, to a lesser extent, the rest of the Empire doesn't actually benefit the Unicorn in any way, does it? Quite the opposite, since it caused the Phoenix to try and outlaw one of our oldest traditions, and it got the Iuchi Daimyo's daughter sent to Otosan Uchi as a hostage an honored guest .

It seems far more likely that the Djinn were either brought along by accident, or the Unicorn brought them along deliberately when they returned to the Empire, but the Djinn have propagated and moved eastwards on their own.

And that's assuming that the elemental imbalance can be blamed squarely on a signle issue, rather than a combination of Djinn, dwindling virtue, the Shadowlands stirring, heretical sects springing up among the heimin, and Kami knows what else.

I'm not saying good Unicorn would have done it intentionally. And after this fiction, I do believe there are some genuinely good ones in the bunch. But if there were say, a heretical sect, or cult, or other Bad People within the Unicorn that wanted to disrupt the Soul of the Empire, they could potentially have been releasing djinn in Phoenix lands for decades now as part of an overarching plot to destabilize the empire. Presumably said group won't be too distraught over lost love between the clans, or even potential threats to meishodo practice, since what they're doing already must be kept secret anyhow.