On 4/30/2018 at 11:24 PM, Magnus Grendel said:

Not based on the precedent of the star wars RPGs. There will be a .pdf download of a couple of extra characters and a 'follow-on' adventure, though.

My understanding is that the lack of digital Star Wars content is due to the Star Wars brand licensing digital content separately from print content, not due to FFG generally being opposed to digital rpg content. Thus my question.

On 5/1/2018 at 12:08 PM, dlaw008 said:

It seems really weird that they just released Genesys, a perfectly serviceable system, but won't be using it for this game. I was actually quite excited about L5R as a Genesys setting. After this announcement, though, I'm no longer excited. This direction is mystifying to me.

This system is also 'perfectly serviceable' in the sense thatt FFG uses it for their Star Wars line. As to why they picked this one over the Genesys system...the optimist in me says "because they like it and think this sytem adds more dimensions to rpging", but the cynic in me says "so they could sell more dice." I expect others can think of more possible reasons, too.

On 5/2/2018 at 3:40 PM, Alderaan Crumbs said:

Could the more experienced please let me know if...based on what’s been shown/changed so far in the beta...the new system is as complicated as I’ve read? My level of crunch preference is GeneSys , if that helps. Another big thing I want is a game I can GM on-the-fly, especially when it comes to running NPCs.

Based solely on my reading of the beta reviews, it takes a few encounters to get used to/understand the additional opportunity and strife mechanics of the rolls...but not much more than that. So yes more complicated than a basic "get your score, you succeed" system, but most players and GMs of the beta seem to report understanding it just fine by the end of the first session.

The new RPG is radically different than the old RPG in tone, for good or bad. I think starting with the Topaz Championship is good, so long as it keeps to the tradition of L5R:

It is NEVER really about the Topaz Championship.

11 hours ago, selderane said:

Bruh. It's a role-playing game. Try role-playing.

I can understand passing because you don't think there's enough content, sure. But it seems your real gripe is no Crab. Try a different Clan.

I'm Scorpion first. Unicorn when I'm feeling frisky.

But I'm playing an Ikoma Bard in my current game and it's great. There's something to enjoy in every Clan.

It's like you're proud you've limited your ability to have fun.

It’s one thing to choose to play a character of a faction / class / whatever that you’ve never done before and aren’t used to, and quite another to be forced into playing something you don’t want.

Just because someone has preferences for what kind of character they want to play does not mean that they don’t know how to role-play, and certainly does not mean that they should be deried for the way they enjoy playing RPGs.

14 hours ago, selderane said:

Bruh. It's a role-playing game. Try role-playing.

I can understand passing because you don't think there's enough content, sure. But it seems your real gripe is no Crab. Try a different Clan.

I'm Scorpion first. Unicorn when I'm feeling frisky.

But I'm playing an Ikoma Bard in my current game and it's great. There's something to enjoy in every Clan.

It's like you're proud you've limited your ability to have fun.

I've played characters from every clan. My very favorite character, out of any roleplaying system period, that I've played was a Kakita duelist. I've played characters from every Great Clan, and many Minor clans and Imperial families.

But there's no good excuse for them cutting out three clans in a beginner module where the setting (Topaz Championship) specifically involves every clan. "Want to introduce the game to people? Just remember, Crab, Scorpion, and Unicorn aren't good enough to play!" That's what the limited availability says. And if I do use this, get four players, and they want to keep the story moving, but one wants to change characters to a Crab/Unicorn/Scorpion? "Okay, well here's Soshi Rando who never had a chance at the Topaz Championship with three elite samurai youths! You have no connection to this character, but figure it out!"

I'll admit to some bias, but the lack of content generally is going to stop me from buying the beginner box. I'll happily pick up the main rulebook (assuming that has all the Great Clans) and run all the games my friends want. But it's a hard pass on a $40 partial starter set.

11 hours ago, sndwurks said:

The new RPG is radically different than the old RPG in tone, for good or bad. I think starting with the Topaz Championship is good, so long as it keeps to the tradition of L5R:

It is NEVER really about the Tooaz Championship.

Agreed here. I LOVE the Topaz Championship as a setting, and I've used it to kick off campaigns twice.

Even used it as a middle point when I kicked off a campaign with Rank 0 youth characters. Very good introduction to the setting of L5R generally.

On 5/4/2018 at 12:53 PM, nameless ronin said:

I’ll get the core book. Not sure if I’ll play 5th ed, but I do want the core book. I might pick up the intro box to sit next to it on the shelf, but to be honest I’m a little disappointed with the adventure chosen. Every edition so far (except the d20 version? Don’t recall) has had a version of the Topaz Championship as an intro adventure in the book. That kind of makes it iconic, I guess, but could there really not be something else for in the starter box? It uses pregen characters, so it’s not like it would fall to the GM or players to figure out why samurai from 4 different clans are all involved. I was hoping for something a little more original for this separate intro set, especially since the Topaz Championship should be easy to convert for anyone who ever GMed in a previous edition of the game.

Actually this is not true, only one of the books ever had the Topaz Championship as its intro adventure.

1st: Ceremony of the Samurai, was the only time during AEGs run that the Topaz Championship was published in a core-book as a starting adventure.

2nd: The Haunting of Usagi castle, was the adventure for 2nd edition

3rd: Did not have an adventure in the core-book. But Test of the Emperor's Favored was available for download as a PDF (Kind of a Topaz Championship for Minor Clans)

3th would have a Topaz Championship PDF updated by Shawn Carman later on.

4th: Tournament of the Samurai, which was not the Topaz Championship, but more of a peaceful tournament for courtiers and artisans.

4th would also have a Topaz Championship PDF updated by Shawn Carman later on.

I'm going to make a couple of uneducated guesses here:

a) The Clans chosen for the boxed set are the most popular, perhaps based on their use/frequency in the LCG.
b) FFG decided that based on the intro story, these four characters would ultimately prove the most enjoyable and/or showcase the most mechanics (and therefore help new players learn the different mechanics by putting them to use)
c) Perhaps FFG created one character for each Clan but including all seven Clans would push the cost even higher and so three got "cut" and will be released as PDFs for those interested.

All or none of the above could be accurate. We may never know the details of the design process and we won't know what (if any) additional characters will be made available until release.

Hida has already stated that the box is not worth $40 to him/her. That may change after release. And there's still the core book to follow. If the Beginner Box tanks but the Core book does well, that gives FFG a direction: fans support the new edition and will buy it but there were some issues with the intro set that need to be looked at and addressed in future products.

1 hour ago, tenchi2a said:

Actually this is not true, only one of the books ever had the Topaz Championship as its intro adventure.

1st: Ceremony of the Samurai, was the only time during AEGs run that the Topaz Championship was published in a core-book as a starting adventure.

2nd: The Haunting of Usagi castle, was the adventure for 2nd edition

3rd: Did not have an adventure in the core-book. But Test of the Emperor's Favored was available for download as a PDF (Kind of a Topaz Championship for Minor Clans)

3th would have a Topaz Championship PDF updated by Shawn Carman later on.

4th: Tournament of the Samurai, which was not the Topaz Championship, but more of a peaceful tournament for courtiers and artisans.

4th would also have a Topaz Championship PDF updated by Shawn Carman later on.

Hence “version of”. Read it as “some kind of courtly tournament” instead, if you prefer.

1 hour ago, JSM3050 said:

c) Perhaps FFG created one character for each Clan but including all seven Clans would push the cost even higher and so three got "cut" and will be released as PDFs for those interested.

* * *

Hida has already stated that the box is not worth $40 to him/her. That may change after release. And there's still the core book to follow. If the Beginner Box tanks but the Core book does well, that gives FFG a direction: fans support the new edition and will buy it but there were some issues with the intro set that need to be looked at and addressed in future products.

If they release the three remaining characters as free PDFs, I would consider buying the box, but they'd have to be equally-gorgeous character folios as the printed ones.

And "he," but I do appreciate that you didn't assume.

They picked the clans they picked because they all exemplify the classes picked; Lion Bushi, Dragon Monk, Crane Courtier, Phoenix Shugenja. They're also 4 very traditional clans. Crab, Scorpion and Unicorn are all have their flavor that sets them apart from your average rokugani be it not appreciating art and civility, being mask wearing liars or literally being a foreign culture. Sorry, but those 4 are the right clans in the right roles to put your best foot forward as an introduction to L5R.

7 hours ago, llamaman88 said:

They picked the clans they picked because they all exemplify the classes picked; Lion Bushi, Dragon Monk, Crane Courtier, Phoenix Shugenja. They're also 4 very traditional clans. Crab, Scorpion and Unicorn are all have their flavor that sets them apart from your average rokugani be it not appreciating art and civility, being mask wearing liars or literally being a foreign culture. Sorry, but those 4 are the right clans in the right roles to put your best foot forward as an introduction to L5R.

Well, Scorpion are the best ninja, Unicorn are the best cavalry, and the Crab are the best overall, so, if you're talking about roles...

Well, first there are no ninja in the scorpion, every scorpion would tell you that

Now, for basic reasons that could justify their limitations on pre-gens variety.

Thing is: playing well a scorpion needs a good bit of knowledge on Rokugani society, to exploit people well, and realize what their ends justify means philosophy really is. Else newcomers could role play the scorpion as one dimensioned treacherous bastards and miss the point. So no scorpion is almost understandable.

Then, for cavalry, apart from the riding contest, no much way to shine as a horserider in the Topaz tournament. So the role would be a bit unused. And you need to understand the culture, to make the foreign ways of a Unicorn more noticeable.

For Crab, while folks have always thought them easy to play because of the lack of focus on decorum, it's a clan that needs to have his mindset and burden understood to be played well in character. Despite this, I'm a bit surprised as well that they ain't in the folios pre-gen.

Tbh, they once again miss the point (as during the beta) and force us to live Rokugan as they see it fit only. No much leeway for GM and players to appropriate their Rokugan.

4th ed was "Rokugan your way"

5th ed seems once again FFG's "Rokugan our way or the highway"

FFG doesn't trust us to Rokugan well.

On 5/4/2018 at 7:20 PM, easl said:

This system is also 'perfectly serviceable' in the sense thatt FFG uses it for their Star Wars line. As to why they picked this one over the Genesys system...the optimist in me says "because they like it and think this sytem adds more dimensions to rpging", but the cynic in me says "so they could sell more dice." I expect others can think of more possible reasons, too.

I'm pretty sure that Genesys is the generic version of the Star Wars rpg system, and that what was described for this game is not that system.

I'll probably still end up buying this game 'for the lore'. Which is to say I will read the books and they will sit on my shelf. If I have to teach my players another new system, it's probably not going to get played, simple as that. We are all old and busy and lazy.

On 5/4/2018 at 9:41 PM, sndwurks said:

The new RPG is radically different than the old RPG in tone, for good or bad. I think starting with the Topaz Championship is good, so long as it keeps to the tradition of L5R:

It is NEVER really about the Topaz Championship.

I missed your edit for the above post so sorry for the delayed reply. I've heard of the Topaz Champion but I have not looked into exactly what it is. From the sounds of things, it is an extra-Clan position of some influence/honor.

18 hours ago, llamaman88 said:

They picked the clans they picked because they all exemplify the classes picked; Lion Bushi, Dragon Monk, Crane Courtier, Phoenix Shugenja. They're also 4 very traditional clans. Crab, Scorpion and Unicorn are all have their flavor that sets them apart from your average rokugani be it not appreciating art and civility, being mask wearing liars or literally being a foreign culture. Sorry, but those 4 are the right clans in the right roles to put your best foot forward as an introduction to L5R.

That line of thinking makes sense.

10 hours ago, Nitenman said:

Well, first there are no ninja in the scorpion, every scorpion would tell you that

Now, for basic reasons that could justify their limitations on pre-gens variety.

Thing is: playing well a scorpion needs a good bit of knowledge on Rokugani society, to exploit people well, and realize what their ends justify means philosophy really is. Else newcomers could role play the scorpion as one dimensioned treacherous bastards and miss the point. So no scorpion is almost understandable.

Then, for cavalry, apart from the riding contest, no much way to shine as a horserider in the Topaz tournament. So the role would be a bit unused. And you need to understand the culture, to make the foreign ways of a Unicorn more noticeable.

For Crab, while folks have always thought them easy to play because of the lack of focus on decorum, it's a clan that needs to have his mindset and burden understood to be played well in character. Despite this, I'm a bit surprised as well that they ain't in the folios pre-gen.

Tbh, they once again miss the point (as during the beta) and force us to live Rokugan as they see it fit only. No much leeway for GM and players to appropriate their Rokugan.

4th ed was "Rokugan your way"

5th ed seems once again FFG's "Rokugan our way or the highway"

FFG doesn't trust us to Rokugan well.

I have to agree with this. I've been reading all the short stories as they come out and my take-away is what follows.

Scorpion definitely could wind up looking/feeling like a D&D rogue or possibly even working at odds with the rest of the party if the player was unfamiliar with the setting/lore. I know I'd make for a lousy Scorpion player at this point with my limited understanding of their motivations and methods. I'd likely fall into a style that was yin to the Crane's yang and something tells me that's not entirely accurate.

The Unicorn were hand-picked to act as scouts and unofficial emissaries to foreign countries from what I understand. I'd guess that before they left, Rokugani culture was practically hard-coded into the Clan's DNA otherwise they risked losing themselves to foreign influence and thus failing at the Emperor's task. Again, being able to portray the finer points influencing the Clan would require a great deal of player knowledge.

As mentioned at the beginning of this post, I'm unfamiliar with the position of Topaz Champion but I would think the Crab would be occupied elsewhere (the Wall). Their (apparent) disregard for Rokugani social norms would do little to help a new player learn the setting because they character wouldn't necessarily be following the expected behavior patterns. Again, a player with setting experience would be best here.

Keeping the above in mind, I think it would be great if all three Clans got a PDF character. I can easily see them being enjoyable (and well-portrayed) by veterans to the setting who simply need to learn the new mechanics. This again makes them excellent candidates for free downloads. The physical box provides everything for absolute novices up to lore daimyos while the supporting downloads can take things a step further for groups when they are ready. For some that means after a session or two and for others it means release day.

8 hours ago, JSM3050 said:

I missed your edit for the above post so sorry for the delayed reply. I've heard of the Topaz Champion but I have not looked into exactly what it is. From the sounds of things, it is an extra-Clan position of some influence/honor.

The Topaz Championship is an annual competition to find a given year's Soul of Promise. It is basically similar to the Olympics meets Miss America, only with competitors participating in all the events, and only a single title given out. Still, just to compete is considered an honor, and even if you do not win, prominent appointments abound.

Winning, traditionally, involves taking the Iaijutsu contest at the end of the challenges. The winner is named the Topaz Champion, everyone is given their gempukku, and the Topaz Champion tours the Empire for a year, cutting ribbons and shaking hands, before handing the mantle over to the next Topaz Champion the next year.

On 5/6/2018 at 7:50 AM, Nitenman said:

Well, first there are no ninja in the scorpion, every scorpion would tell you that

#notallScorpion?

Kidding, of course. Not even are all Scorpion backstabbing-betrayers. A Scorpion that is a true friend is one of the best allies you can have. Sure their Clan as a whole isn't particularly trusted, but that doesn't equate to every Scorpion you know is lying to you and manipulating you. A character who is more reserved is not a character waiting to murder you at the first chance they get.

1 minute ago, Hida Jitenno said:

#notallScorpion?

Kidding, of course. Not even are all Scorpion backstabbing-betrayers. A Scorpion that is a true friend is one of the best allies you can have. Sure their Clan as a whole isn't particularly trusted, but that doesn't equate to every Scorpion you know is lying to you and manipulating you. A character who is more reserved is not a character waiting to murder you at the first chance they get.

I think the point being made is that for someone new to L5R, this would be a very easy mistake to make when it comes to playing a Scorpion. Honestly though, even if the 3 Great Clans left out are the least traditional ones I think it’s a bad idea to single them out like that. Especially since the Dragon are arguably harder to wrap your head around than them anyway. Focus on how the Clans each do follow Bushido and which aspect means the most to them, not on how they stray from the norm, and it will most likely work out well.

Worst is, in previous editions, Unicorn and Crab used to be considered the "easiest" to play for newcomers or folks less familiar with medieval Asian setting, crab for its lack of decorum, and Unicorn for their supposed ignorance of Rokugani customs, because they would be a reason/excuse for political/cultural blunders while Crane and Lion were not advised for newcomers due to their focus on honor, culture and bushido.

Probably an aftermath of the way FFG's L5R forces Giri and Ninjo on players and GM throats, and make what was a Progressive Roleplaying effort an obligation from beginning. Rokugan their way...

8 hours ago, sndwurks said:

The Topaz Championship is an annual competition to find a given year's Soul of Promise. It is basically similar to the Olympics meets Miss America, only with competitors participating in all the events, and only a single title given out. Still, just to compete is considered an honor, and even if you do not win, prominent appointments abound.

Winning, traditionally, involves taking the Iaijutsu contest at the end of the challenges. The winner is named the Topaz Champion, everyone is given their gempukku, and the Topaz Champion tours the Empire for a year, cutting ribbons and shaking hands, before handing the mantle over to the next Topaz Champion the next year.

Good info to have for a newcomer. Thanks!

1 hour ago, Nitenman said:

Worst is, in previous editions, Unicorn and Crab used to be considered the "easiest" to play for newcomers or folks less familiar with medieval Asian setting, crab for its lack of decorum, and Unicorn for their supposed ignorance of Rokugani customs, because they would be a reason/excuse for political/cultural blunders while Crane and Lion were not advised for newcomers due to their focus on honor, culture and bushido.

Which is honestly bollocks. A Crab being uncouth at court doesn’t get a pass because he’s a Crab. Neither does a Unicorn get forgiven for a breach of etiquette on account of being a Unicorn and supposedly unaware of it being a faux pas. If something like that happens because of player ignorance, you explain what they didn’t know and let them correct their actions if necessary. Heaping trouble on players for being new is the exact opposite of what should be done.

Didn't meant that it should give a free pass. handling newcomers introduction to the setting smoothly is GMing 101 anyway, so correcting player and explaining interactions faux pas stands is implied.

It wasn't about the character action but about the player interpretation, easier for a newcomer to play less traditional clans for their first scenarios. And of course nothing about allowing someone to pile up crap without consequences after you explained the eventual wrongs.

Anyway, honestly, no clan is hard to play, and no clan is easy either. As long as you do a bit of homework to learn your clan and GM isn't a d*ck with the setting.

5 hours ago, Nitenman said:

Didn't meant that it should give a free pass. handling newcomers introduction to the setting smoothly is GMing 101 anyway, so correcting player and explaining interactions faux pas stands is implied.

I didn’t intend to imply anything about you personally, or the post you made. It’s the pervasive notion that non-traditional clans are easier to play I take issue with.

54 minutes ago, nameless ronin said:

I didn’t intend to imply anything about you personally, or the post you made. It’s the pervasive notion that non-traditional clans are easier to play I take issue with.

it's not easier to play them indeed. On the contrary, they are probably the "easiest" to be played badly/wrong like the caricaturals brutish Hida, uneducated moto or betraying for the sake of it Shosuro.

But let's not forget the point, which was highlighting why it makes no sense for FFG to have made only 4 clans available in beginner game kit.

I'd even say the whole "beginner kit" limited pre-gen is a dumb idea for Rokugan. Particularly because FFG tries to not have "class feeling" (open school progression, ring approach mechanic...) yet their kit could make it feel these 4 archetype are the L5R classes (Bushi, courtier, monk, shugenja) and those 4 clans are the poster boys of these respective archetypes/classes.