Map from the ebook
I just hope they keep up releasing this ebooks with all the fictions together.
Next one could be the Imperial cycle fictions, including the ones within the packs.
... why is my first question "are the Hiruma lands still on the wrong side of the Kaiu Wall in this timeline"?
I think the Hiruma lands still being overrun was referenced in the Halloween fiction. Maybe in the RPG beta materials. I'm pretty sure that was already confirmed somewhere. I also hope they keep collecting this stuff into these E-Books. I wish DriveThruRPG offered to do a print on demand version of the book so I could put it on my book shelf with the rest of my L5R materials.
So do the Crane own the entire coast in the new continuity. I was pretty sure Crab had some of the southern coast that bordered the Shadowlands. Though I guess it is sort of a vague map as far as who owns what territory is concerned.
Crane is too burdened by having to defend so much coast line from low-life pirates and Lion should partially relieve them from this onerous responsibility in the north. It's just a friendly and responsible policy.
The Crane owns a a lot of the coastline, but Phoenix has its own coast on the north, then a little bit for the Lion and then is Crane all the way south, although Crab owns the leftmost part or the Earthquake Fish Bay, which with the left riverside of the River of Gold constitutes the Crab’s exit to the sea from their lands.
Bear in mind that Earthquake Fish Bay is big enough to hold the entire Crab fleet, which is only second in size to the Mantis fleet, and then allow for all the Crab fishermen to fish enough for the entire clan, so is practically a minor sea itself.
seems like they took the map shape from Atlas of Rokugan, so closer to 3rd ed than 4th ed.
Clan territories look smaller with this, particularly in the south, with Shinomen closer to the spine of the world mountain. Shrink a bit the scorpion territories. Crane indeed look much more coastal, and phenix territory looks more concentrated.
1 hour ago, Nitenman said:seems like they took the map shape from Atlas of Rokugan, so closer to 3rd ed than 4th ed.
If I’m not mistaken, this is the same map used for The Battle for Rokugan tabletop game, although with a few minor changes (like the Kaiu Wall now having its twelve towers) and with some text over it.
We discussed it here
you are not mistaken indeed.
So this is definitely the new Canon map, probably the one as well that will be the map for FFG's Five Rings RPG.
A change from 4th ed. As said clan territories look smaller and less space for those untamed or unaligned lands.
The northern crane lands look now smaller, and when you see where Toshi Ranbo is, you wonder how crane can maintain supply lines to the town.
On 12/04/2018 at 3:00 PM, Tabris2k said:If I’m not mistaken, this is the same map used for The Battle for Rokugan tabletop game, although with a few minor changes (like the Kaiu Wall now having its twelve towers) and with some text over it.
We discussed it here
yeah, but that thread became quickly more about cartography and river shapes.
The text now places key locations and give us a situation of clan territories.
This map gives us more details about geopolitics. clan lands look small yet the whole empire as welllooks a bit more...narrow.
I liked 4th ed map, which felt large, and was full of unaligned lands to adventure in.
I actually have the 4th edition map open now from the Atlas of Rokugan because I wanted to double check that the Crane owned the Eastern landmass bordering Earthquake Fish Bay (the answer is yes I was misremembering of course). They have the settlements colored per faction and I don't see many (if any) unaligned settlements. Also If I zoom out it seems like the majority of the geography matches up. The FFG map is more vague since we can only guess where the political borders actually fall. It's just the floating clan names. Though where they appear is pretty much roughly identical. I know in the Battle For Rokugan game the way the territories were assigned per faction for that game didn't match the established continuity, but I suspect that was just a game balance concern rather than a lore change to the setting.
Also I have no idea how Crane are holding Toshi Ranbo in the 4th edition map. On that map they are completely surrounded by other factions and cut off from their own territories. It would only make sense if they were moving troops and supplies through imperial lands, up and around the Mountains Of Regret and through the phoenix territories. That or boating them directly to a Phoenix port and then marching them across Phoenix lands. So unless they have changed the political DNA of that region I do wonder how they are surviving up there. What an insult to the Lion.
No wonder they are so mad.
Well, they’re not in bad standing with the Phoenix, so maybe they’re passing through their territory, paying some tribute, of course. That can change after the Meishodo thing, given that Unicorn and Crane are allies.
The other only way I can think of is if they’re sailing up the Drowned Merchant River, that now has its own way out to the sea, providing is not a turbulent river (or spending a fortune in water shugenjas) and is wide enough to fend off attacks from the riverside.
Edited by Tabris2k2 questions
Where was this map posted, please? (I’m a ***** with online searches)
Why dont the Shadowland Hordes merely swing North, find the ‘Fulda Gap’ at the northern-end of the Crab Wall, then leisurely walk into Rokugan and have a picnic?
6 hours ago, LordBlunt said:Where was this map posted, please? (I’m a ***** with online searches)
It is within the First Scroll pdf, linked in the OP.
On 4/11/2018 at 4:25 PM, Mangod said:... why is my first question "are the Hiruma lands still on the wrong side of the Kaiu Wall in this timeline"?
The Hiruma lands are, indeed, on the Shadowlands side of the Kaiu Kabe. Now, whether you consider this this "wrong" side of the Wall depends on your perspective. I'm sure that all the various and sundry Shadowlands monstrosities consider the Hiruma lands to be on the RIGHT side of the Wall.
1 minute ago, DGLaderoute said:I'm sure that all the various and sundry Shadowlands monstrosities consider the Hiruma lands to be on the RIGHT side of the Wall.
No, no, I’m pretty sure they’re on the LEFT side of the wall.
Ba Dum Tss.
On 4/13/2018 at 1:34 PM, Nitenman said:I liked 4th ed map, which felt large, and was full of unaligned lands to adventure in.
Well, when I write for this game, I use the 4th Edition Atlas of Rokugan map as my go-to. If you make a few adjustments to it to align it properly with the year 1123 (for example, there's no Kaigen's Island or Kyuden Kumiko in 1123), it works just fine. I'd say it's as authoritative and "correct" as any map available, and probably more so than most.
On 4/16/2018 at 12:37 PM, LordBlunt said:Why dont the Shadowland Hordes merely swing North, find the ‘Fulda Gap’ at the northern-end of the Crab Wall, then leisurely walk into Rokugan and have a picnic?
It's a little hard for me to tell based on the map details, but it looks like that "Fulda Gap" you are referring to is comprised of a mountain range with what looks to be a desert on the Western side of it. It would likely be extremely difficult to march an army over through the mountain ranges, as travel would be slowed significantly and the topography would provide numerous ideal places for ambushes. I doubt they could march north through the desert to the Shinomen Forest, either, because keeping an army supplied in such terrain would be incredibly difficult. Most pre-industrial armies (that I am aware of--I am by no means an expert) kept their armies supplied by foraging or looting along the way, but in a desert there would be nothing to forage and no people to pillage (this is also a big problem with crossing through the mountain range). I get the impression that a Shadowland army would have abysmal discipline, as it would be, as you described, a "horde." While such a force would be a massive threat in the swampy terrain of the south, it would likely disintegrate fairly quickly in a desert, as its members would likely wander off or start eating each other as soon as food supplies ran low. If they DID somehow manage to make it across the desert or mountains intact, however, I could see a Shadowlands horde being a major threat to whatever more-fertile region they arrived in.
It's interesting that you use the Fulda Gap as a metaphor, as modern technology is something that allows nations in the present-day to have large, mobile, and well-supplied armies. When your primary mode of transportation is "throw it on the back of a donkey," your ability to field a large army or send it far from home is severely reduced. Historical nations that managed to project force across large distances, such as the Romans, the British Empire, and the Mongols, tended to also be very disciplined and have well-thought-out supply chains (and yes, I know this runs counter to Hollywood's memory of the Mongols). I just don't see this being the case with a Shadowlands horde.
But, as I said, I am neither an expert in the historical side of this nor in L5R lore. If anybody noticed I misinterpreted either one of those things, please correct me. And of course, there is also the strong possibility that I am reading this map wrong and that the land to the east of the mountains is not arid, which would change this situation significantly. Those are just my thoughts on the question you asked, sorry this turned into a random rant.
3 hours ago, Mandalore525 said:It's a little hard for me to tell based on the map details, but it looks like that "Fulda Gap" you are referring to is comprised of a mountain range with what looks to be a desert on the Western side of it. It would likely be extremely difficult to march an army over through the mountain ranges, as travel would be slowed significantly and the topography would provide numerous ideal places for ambushes. I doubt they could march north through the desert to the Shinomen Forest, either, because keeping an army supplied in such terrain would be incredibly difficult . Most pre-industrial armies (that I am aware of--I am by no means an expert) kept their armies supplied by foraging or looting along the way, but in a desert there would be nothing to forage and no people to pillage (this is also a big problem with crossing through the mountain range). I get the impression that a Shadowland army would have abysmal discipline, as it would be, as you described, a "horde." While such a force would be a massive threat in the swampy terrain of the south, it would likely disintegrate fairly quickly in a desert, as its members would likely wander off or start eating each other as soon as food supplies ran low. If they DID somehow manage to make it across the desert or mountains intact, however, I could see a Shadowlands horde being a major threat to whatever more-fertile region they arrived in.
It's interesting that you use the Fulda Gap as a metaphor, as modern technology is something that allows nations in the present-day to have large, mobile, and well-supplied armies. When your primary mode of transportation is "throw it on the back of a donkey," your ability to field a large army or send it far from home is severely reduced. Historical nations that managed to project force across large distances, such as the Romans, the British Empire, and the Mongols, tended to also be very disciplined and have well-thought-out supply chains (and yes, I know this runs counter to Hollywood's memory of the Mongols). I just don't see this being the case with a Shadowlands horde.
But, as I said, I am neither an expert in the historical side of this nor in L5R lore. If anybody noticed I misinterpreted either one of those things, please correct me. And of course, there is also the strong possibility that I am reading this map wrong and that the land to the east of the mountains is not arid, which would change this situation significantly. Those are just my thoughts on the question you asked, sorry this turned into a random rant.
While the information is most likely out of date, the desert north of the Shadowlands is called the Plains Above Evil . According to the 4th Ed. RPG, they're:
"A vast and utterly empty wilderness, the Plains Above Evil are so named because they adjoin the Shadowlands to the south. Despite this, the area remains largely desolate, and even the creatures of that dark realm seem reluctant to enter the region. Consequently the Crab lack any significant presence or fortifications in the area, although the Hiruma scouts do keep an eye on the region. In addition to its strange and almost otherworldly emptiness, the area is also home to bizarre ruins that are clearly ancient but do not resemble any currently known pre-human civilizations. The most popular rumor is that they are Naga ruins, and although the serpent men acknowledge it is possible that a failed colony was attempted in the area, they have no concrete knowledge of such a thing."
It's probably worth pointing out that the Shadowlands Horde had a significant portion which was undead. This would reduce the logistical requirements notably.