In advance of the forum shutdown, we have moved this thread here

http://www.legendsofthegalaxy.com/community-boards/?p=post%2Fthe-nubian-design-collective-11340279%3Fpid%3D1322076594

This thread is a workspace for a community/collective project for a more reasonable set of vehicle crafting rules than found in fully operational. The biggest objections in my opinion are the rather large htt and armor that can be attained, the low speed, lack of options for sensors and hangers. It is my hope that the rules we come up with will be a fairly small perturbation away from the official rules.

Edit: What follows are the current draft of "The Nubian Design Collective's whole vehicle crafting handbook" house rules

http://www.mediafire.com/file/2w9oicv7s63dhmg/TheNubianDesignCollectivesWholeVehicleCraftingHandbook.pdf

and here's the google/excel sheet of vehicles with official ffg stats that have been reproduced with these rules

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1zgfDLnxgKWoQnlDMEUb2E0rJAdvsaY_X/view?usp=sharing

if you want to help fill it in, send me a pm with your email address and I can give you permission (not giving everyone editor permissions to prevent a random someone from mucking it all up for shtiz and giggles)

This post

Contains a list of vehicles I chose to help construct the basis functions of a least squares problem to determine pricing. So that's the I think initial list I want in the spreadsheet

I am going to preface this, these are just ideas, and you can take em or leave em as you like, but really all this stuff should have been in the fully operational book. I did all this work in 2 hours. So yeah not a ton of checking about or balancing work, this is just getting the ideas out there so you lot can have fun moving the numbers about as you like with your home rules.

Hyperdrives
Rarity is up to the GM, price is up to the GM

again these are all ideas off the top of my head and not balanced in any way, I will leave that to the house rules you guys want to enact over your parties. I am not thinking these are perfectly balanced or the end all be all guide to ship crafting. Just ideas thrown at a wall and what sticks yay! What doesn’t ohwell.

Base Hyperdrive
Pg 82 Fully Operational
Base: Add one primary hyperdrive (Class 4 or Class 8 costs below)
and droid socket (Fighters only)
Mods: 4 Reduce Primary hyperdrive rating by 1 (Min .5)
1 Add Secondary hyperdrive class 14
4 Reduce Secondary hyperdrive rating by 1
HP: 1
Price: 3000 – Class 8
6000 – Class 3

Hardened Hyperdrive
The hyperdrive is specially designed to make sure it continues to function even if ship systems are starting to fail
Base: Add one primary hyperdrive Class 5 Resists critical damage once per scene (or once per 3 rounds)
Mods: 4 Reduce Primary hyperdrive rating by 1 (Min 1)
1 Add Secondary hyperdrive class 14
4 Reduce Secondary hyperdrive rating by 1
HP: 1
Price: 5000

Fighter Hyperdrive
Purpose made hyperdrive for any fighter
Base: Add one primary hyperdrive Class 5
Mods: 3 Reduce Primary hyperdrive rating by 1 (Min 2)
HP: 1
Price: 2000

Redundant circuity Hyperdrive
Resists Ion Damage, ship can jump to hyperspace for a short time even if other systems are disabled.
Silhouette 5+ only
Base: Add one primary hyperdrive Class 5 Ion energy is converted and shunted to the hyperdrive reducing Ion damage by ½ (or by 3 points)
Mods: 3 Reduce Primary hyperdrive rating by 1 (Min 2)
1 Reduce Silhouette requirement by 1 (Min 4)
1 Increase System Strain by Silhouette
HP: 1
Price: 5000

Offensive Hyperdrive
Energy is transferred from a hyperspace jump into one weapon system. That system gains 4 boost die on its nice combat roll, that same systems is disabled for 3 rounds.
Base: Add one primary hyperdrive Class 3
Mods: 1 Reduce Primary hyperdrive rating by 1 (Min 2)
2 replace 1 boost die with an ability die
HP: 1
Price: 5000

Defensive Hyperdrive
Energy is transferred from a hyperspace jump into shields. Shields are completely replenished and add 4 defense to 1 zone the PC chooses. After 4 rounds shields malfunction for 4 rounds.
Base: Add one primary hyperdrive Class 3
Mods: 1 Reduce Primary hyperdrive rating by 1 (Min 2)
2 +1 defense to 1 zone
HP: 1
Price: 5000

SHIELDS:
These are all meant to be paired with the engines so yes they are all somewhat weak but can be stronger with applied to the proper power source. Rarity is up to the GM, price is up to the GM

again these are all ideas off the top of my head and not balanced in any way, I will leave that to the house rules you guys want to enact over your parties. I am not thinking these are perfectly balanced or the end all be all guide to ship crafting. Just ideas thrown at a wall and what sticks yay! What doesn’t ohwell.

Reinforced Shield Generator
EOTE Core Rulebook page 270
Base: +1 defense to 1 zone
Mods: 2 +1 defense to 1 zone
HP: 2
Price: 3800

Shield Generator
Add a full shield Generator to you ship.
Base: +1 to all applicable zones
Mods: 2 +1 defense to 1 zone
HP: 1
Price: 3000

Hardened Shield Generator
The Generator is given backup systems and specially made to resist being disabled
Base: +1 to all applicable zones, shields cannot suffer critical damage from rolls, reroll any result dealing with ship shields
Mods: +1 defense to 1 zone
HP: 1
Price: 6000

Reactive Shield Generator
Quickly Shunt defense to vulnerable parts of the ship.
Base: +1 to all applicable zones, PC can add setback die as if the defense zone was one stronger by reducing it from another available undepleted zone. After the roll is complete that defense point is lost for 1 round.
Mods: None
HP: 1
Price: 7000

Mon Calamari Shield Generator
Some of the best shields in the galaxy, and not easy or cheap to get.
Base: +2 to all applicable zones
Mods: 4 +1 defense to 1 zone
HP: 1
Price: 10000

Fighter Shield Generator
Special made for fighters, max Silhouette of 3
Base: +1 to fore shields
Mods: +1 defense to 1 zone
HP: 1
Price 1000


Ship Systems
again these are all ideas off the top of my head and not balanced in any way, I will leave that to the house rules you guys want to enact over your parties. I am not thinking these are perfectly balanced or the end all be all guide to ship crafting. Just ideas thrown at a wall and what sticks yay! What doesn’t ohwell.

Navicomputers

Basic Navicomputer
The very basic but well tested Navicomputer to fit any system.
Base: Allows the ship to calculate travel through the many hazards of space
Mods: none
HP: 0
Price 100

Corporate Navicomputer
Faster calculations and more hamsters inside, even some red tape to free you of some extra creds
Base: Adds 1 boost die to Astrogations checks.
Mods: 2 +1 boost die to Astrogation checks.
HP:1
Price 500

Navicomputer Array
Several calculation processors work together to get you going faster
Base: +1 Ability Die to Astrogation checks
Mods: 2 +1 boost die to Astrogation checks.
HP: 1
Price: 1000

Sorosuub Navicomputer
A high end Sorosuub design to help the PC navigate the more dicey lanes
Base: Upgrades Astrogation Checks
Mods: 2 +1 boost die to Astrogation checks.
1 +1 Ability Die to Astrogation checks
1 Upgrades Astrogation Checks
HP: 1
Price: 3000

Escape Pods, Ejection Systems, Breaching Pods
again these are all ideas off the top of my head and not balanced in any way, I will leave that to the house rules you guys want to enact over your parties. I am not thinking these are perfectly balanced or the end all be all guide to ship crafting. Just ideas thrown at a wall and what sticks yay! What doesn’t ohwell.

Basic Escape Pod, Ejection System
Safe your life if your ship is going down
Base: Adds an Ejection System to the fighter saving the pilot, Adds an Escape Pod for 4 people if larger than a fighter.
Mods: 2 +1 to crew saved by the system
HP: 0
Price: 275

Advanced Escape Pod, Ejection System
Be able to move around and possible escape damage with these small pods with engines!
Base: Adds an Ejection System to the fighter saving the pilot, Adds an Escape Pod for 4 people if larger than a fighter. Can move around at speed 1 for 24 hours
Mods: 2 +1 to crew saved by the system
2 +24 hours to movement
HP: 0
Price: 2000

Reinforced Escape Pod, Ejection System
Keeps the crew safe from natural or combat related hazards
Base: Adds an Ejection System to the fighter saving the pilot, Adds an Escape Pod for 4 people if larger than a fighter. The crew is also immune to the natural hazards of space radiation.
Mods: Add resistance to battle debris, and Asteroids
Add +1 defense for temporary shield protection
HP: 1
Price: 3000

Atmosphere ready Escape Pod, Ejection System
Allows the crew to safely land on a nearby planet in hopes to survive
Base: Adds an Ejection System to the fighter saving the pilot, Adds an Escape Pod for 4 people if larger than a fighter. The Escape Pod, Ejection System can survive re-entry and safely crash land on a planets surface:
Mods: Adds water ready feature
Adds Toxic, Hot, frozen adaptability.
HP: 1
Price: 3500


Basic Breaching Pod
Allows what should have been an escape pod launcher to be changed to a breaching pod launcher
Base: 6 Crew can be fired from a Silhouette 5+ ship and breach a ship up to armor 5. Requires a Hard piloting check
Mods: None
HP: 1
Price: 2000

Medium Breaching Pod
A purpose-built launcher and pod to breaching larger ships and delivering an angry cargo.
Base: 12 Crew Can be fired from a Silhouette 5+ ship and breach a ship up to armor 6 Requires an Average piloting check.
Mods: 1 +6 Crew to pod
1 Increase armor breached by 1
HP: 1
Price: 3000

Heavy Breaching Pod
Place a large number of very gutsy and now completely dedicated Marines on an enemy ship to cause some havoc
Base: 24 Crew Can be fired from a Silhouette 5+ ship and breach a ship up to armor 8 Requires an Average piloting check.
Mods 2 +6 Crew to pod
2 increase armor breached by 1
HP: 2
Price: 5000

Atmospheric Assault Pod [AAP]
When you need to get a squad on the surface right now.
Base: 12 Crew Can be fired from a Silhouette 5+ ship into the atmosphere of a planet or at a large enough asteroid [OK GMS time to work you house rule magic here!]
Mods: 4 2 +6 Crew to pod
HP: 2
Price: 4000

Sensors:
again these are all ideas off the top of my head and not balanced in any way, I will leave that to the house rules you guys want to enact over your parties. I am not thinking these are perfectly balanced or the end all be all guide to ship crafting. Just ideas thrown at a wall and what sticks yay! What doesn’t ohwell.

Basic Sensors:
Basic system sensors, simple by reliable.
Base: Uses the frame range
Mods: None
Hp: 0
Price: 100

Sweep Sensors:
A new take an Sensors instead of the constant passive or direct active mode this version makes a constant sweep around the ship to detect objects.
Base: Ship sensors are now max frame range +1 but only actively search one facing per 2 rounds and goes around clockwise
Mods: Reduce round time by 1
HP: 1
Price: 300

Hardened Sensors
These Sensors have backups and redundancies, allowed the ship to see in even the most dire of circumstances.
Base: Ship sensors resist being taken offline once per scene
Mods: None
HP: 1
Price: 400

Combat Sensors
These sensors are made for combat and quickly work through friend or foe signatures by combining transponder codes and the ships Silhouette to have a two level check for accuracy.
Basic: Adds 1 difficulty to any deception checks or attempts to fool the sensors identifying friend or foe in combat situations.
Mods: +1 Setback die to any deception checks or attempts to fool the sensors
HP: 1
Price: 700

Comms:
again these are all ideas off the top of my head and not balanced in any way, I will leave that to the house rules you guys want to enact over your parties. I am not thinking these are perfectly balanced or the end all be all guide to ship crafting. Just ideas thrown at a wall and what sticks yay! What doesn’t ohwell.

Upgraded Comms Array
AOE Core Rulebook PG 287
Base: Increase Comms range by 1 range band
Mods: 2 Increase Comms range by 1 range band
HP: 1
Price: 4800

Basic Comms
The ability to communicate is very important
Base: The ship can communicate with anyone in sensors range
Mods: None
HP: 0
Price: 1000

Long Range Comms
When you really need to talk to someone far far away
Base: Long Range Comms allows the ship to communicate up to 1 system jump away.
Mods: 1 Increase range by 1 additional system.
HP: 1
Price: 5000

Encrypted Comms
speak privately at a distance
Base: The out going comms of this ship are kept safe by encoding them anyone listening in cant understand unless they decrypt them with a hard computers check.
Mods: 1 increase the difficulty of the computers check
HP: 1
Price: 6000

Hardened Comms
When your blanket jamming the region you might need to still communicate, this system will allow you to breach jamming you are creating.
Base: If you or an allie are jamming all comms in an area this ship can still send out clear messages to other Hardened Comms in other ships or personal gear.
Mods: 1 Communicate out of a system when being jammed by friendlies
HP: 1
Price: 7000

Hanger bays
again these are all ideas off the top of my head and not balanced in any way, I will leave that to the house rules you guys want to enact over your parties. I am not thinking these are perfectly balanced or the end all be all guide to ship crafting. Just ideas thrown at a wall and what sticks yay! What doesn’t ohwell.

Retrofitted Hanger Bay
AOE Core Rulebook PG 287


Small Hanger Bay
For ships with Silhouette 5
Base: Can carry up to 8 fighters
Mods: 2 +1 fighters to the Hanger Bay
HP: 2
Price: 4000

Medium Hanger Bay
For ships with Silhouette 6 to 7
Base: Can carry up to 12 fighters
Mods: 2 +6 fighters to the Hanger Bay
HP: 2
Price: 8000

Heavy Hanger Bay
For ships with Silhouette 8
Base: Can carry up to 30 fighters
Mods: 3 +10 fighters to the Hanger Bay
HP: 2
Price: 12000

Dropship Bay
This ship is purpose built to get vehicles to and from a planets surface
Base: Can carry up to 10 Vehicles [GM you fiddle with the size and getting more on]
Mods: 2 +4 Vehicles to the Dropship Bay
HP: 2
Price: 5000

I think every ship of sil 4 or larger should just have escape pods by default (or min max gamers wouldn't spend the hp on them, and that wouldn't happen in universe), hp spent to upgrade to pods with hyperdrive because they need to be a little bigger than default. For sil 3 and larger they can pay 2 hp to have an ejectable cockpit.

I'm thinking of 1 dedicated hanger bay attachment, # up, each dedicated hanger bay can carry sil^2 of total smaller soils, and one craft in a dedicated hanger bay can be of sil-1. A carrier hull can have up to sil-1 dedicated hanger bays, maybe all other hulls can have 1.

1 minute ago, EliasWindrider said:

I think every ship of sil 4 or larger should just have escape pods by default, up spent to upgrade to pods with hyperdrive because they need to be a little bigger than default. For sil 3 they can pay 2 hp to have an ejectable cockpit.

So perhaps a mod to have the ships systems in the escape pod... as in hyperdrive, sensors/comms, shield generators. Maybe that' too much but it means travel and safety is increased in the event of an emergency.

thats why i made one of the pods free HP wise. also i wasn't sure if escape pods came with hyperdrives in universe, pretty much turns them into shuttles at that point.

And in general Min-max players are not going to custom build with the current crafting system because you cant really make anything better than whats already in the book and they will just go with whats there which is already better. Most of the stuff i made is just really vanity and again not on the radar of min-maxers.

4 minutes ago, Banditks said:

thats why i made one of the pods free HP wise. also i wasn't sure if escape pods came with hyperdrives in universe, pretty much turns them into shuttles at that point.

It's still way too much detail... I'm hoping to keep this as simple as possible and use as much of RAW as possible. I really don't have a problem with engines providing baseline shields (power plant), and using the reinforced shield generator attachment in the core books to improve from there.

Sensors should cost hp and not be part of the frame. Frames should have more hp (e.g. for weapons/cargo bays/hangers).

Maybe each dedicated hanger bay normally costs 2 hp, but for the carrier hull costs 1 instead, and for the freighter hull a cargo bay costs 1 hp, and costs 2 hp on every other hull, and not otherwise limit the number of bays.

Just put stuff in that are systems listed straight out of the core rulebook and for stuff the team i play with has asked for like the breaching pods.

I didn't consider a carrier frame, a carrier frame getting hangers for cheaper makes sense. The numbers i got just from looking at what is already in the book and making it close to what other ships have for fighter compliments, used the AOE core rulebook for that.

Yeah the frames do need more HP

And where things go and when they go on, I will leave that to house rules for GMs give them the flexibility to take what they want and leave the rest.

The baseline engine shields give a max of 4 defense zone points and the reinforced shield generator gives a max of 3 more defense zone points for a grand total of 7 defense zone points, Liberty MC80 has 14 defense zone points, to get that you will have to stack 3 reinforced shield generators almost fulled modded chewing up 6 HP. I thought having an actual higher grade shield generator for a higher credit cost would be better and save on the HPs.

I could see something similar to the lines of how they did it in FO, but that makes more sense. For example Engine X added sil * Y SST, Sheild generators reduce SST, etc.

Then make the attachements have different types of mods. Regular ones and ones that don't require a roll but come with other drawbacks. For example Engine X could be done like this

Ion-a-majigy drive
Base: Provides speed 1 and SST equal to 5 * Silhouette
Construction mods: 2 increase speed by 1 but decrease SST by Silhouette mods
Mods: 2 +1 to speed mod, 1 increase SST by Silhouette mod
HP: 2
Price: 5,000 * Silhouette

Vectored Fusial Thrust
Base: Provides speed 2, SST equal to 3 * Silhouette, increase handling by +1
Construction mods: 2 increase speed by 1 but decrease SST by Silhouette mods, 1 increase handling by +1 but reduced speed by 1 mod
Mods: 1 +1 to speed mod, 1 +1 to handling mod
HP: 2
Special: May only be mounted on Silhouette 4 or lower frames.
Price: 7,500 * Silhouette

Stuff like that.

I'd also like to see limits on things similar to table 3-3 that sets limits on things based on frame. We shouldn't be able to create armor 9 starfighters...

But add in chart options for advantage, threat, etc, for altering those numbers a bit. Say, the freighter frame was limited to speed 4 in construction but for 3 advantage you could increase that limit to 5. Or starfighters be limited to armor 4, but for 2 advantage you can increase that limit to 5. It doesn't increase it, just the limit. So then when constructing the ship, the player could build the parts they want.

(Numbers pulled out of the air, with no research on what the current stock has)

I noticed a few missing Frame types in Fully Operational.

The Bulk Freighter and Patrol Boat/Gunboat don't have official Frames, but they are both fairly common.

12 hours ago, Ahrimon said:

I'd also like to see limits on things similar to table 3-3 that sets limits on things based on frame. We shouldn't be able to create armor 9 starfighters...

But add in chart options for advantage, threat, etc, for altering those numbers a bit. Say, the freighter frame was limited to speed 4 in construction but for 3 advantage you could increase that limit to 5. Or starfighters be limited to armor 4, but for 2 advantage you can increase that limit to 5. It doesn't increase it, just the limit. So then when constructing the ship, the player could build the parts they want.

(Numbers pulled out of the air, with no research on what the current stock has)

Awww come on. A sil2 fighter with 8 armour sounds perfect. And I still like my iron man suit with 7 armour.

Seriously though I'd say armour should be around sil+1 under normal circumstances.

56 minutes ago, jayc007 said:

Seriously though I'd say armour should be around sil+1 under normal circumstances.

That's an awesome idea, an isd has 10 armor though. But we'll say that they have an after market upgrade

A patrol boat hull was already definitely on my to do list, I was considering a bulk freighter frame but I think a freighter frame with larger design to get it to sil 5, would work. And all official bulk freighters have been sil 5. I need to figure out the scaling on sils (it's not linear in length) from carried craft, length is probably exponential in silhouette, I just need to figure out the base, and encumbrance should be cubic in length.

So enc per cargo bay will look something like (b^sil)^3=b^(3*sil) so log(enc)/log(b)/3=sil and log(b)*3 can be aggregated to a different base log(B).

2^4=16

3^4=81

3^5=243

4^5=1024

An action bulk freighter has 8500 enc.

Presuming it's maxed out on cargo bays, using a freighter frame with larger design and freighter hu'll, which lets it by cargo bays for 1 hp each, so 8 or so cargo bays... or 1125 per cargo bay (a little less because it has base cargo)

So the base looks to be about 4 which with 8 cargo bays gets you to about 8192 from cargo bays so 308 from the frame&sil

A yt-1300 4^4 = 256 per cargo bay so no cargo bays or maybe it has a freighter frame but not a freighter hull, and that would mean a base of 3 so 81 enc for a cargo bay, an isd might have a carrier hull on a destroyer frame. It has 15000 enc, 3^8=6561, if it had 2 cargo bays that would be 13122 leaving 1878 from the combination of frame and silhouette.

An ir-3f has 1800 enc, and without a freighter hull each cargo bay would provide 243 enc at a cost of 2 hp. Or 7 cargo bays for 14 enc. Or maybe all cargo bays cost 1 end? But with a freighter hull it could have 1 cargo bay for 1024 end, and get the rest from a freighter or customs frame, or spend advantage to add on cargo pods...

2 hours ago, jayc007 said:

Seriously though I'd say armour should be around sil+1 under normal circumstances.

That's an awesome idea, an isd has 10 armor though. But we'll say that they have an after market upgrade

A patrol boat hull was already definitely on my to do list, I was considering a bulk freighter frame but I think a freighter frame with larger design to get it to sil 5, would work. And all official bulk freighters have been sil 5. I need to figure out the scaling on sils (it's not linear in length) from carried craft, length is probably exponential in silhouette, I just need to figure out the base, and encumbrance should be cubic in length.

So enc per cargo bay will look something like (b^sil)^3=b^(3*sil) so log(enc)/log(b)/3=sil and log(b)*3 can be aggregated to a different base log(B).

2^4=16

3^4=81

3^5=243

4^5=1024

An action bulk freighter has 8500 enc.

Presuming it's maxed out on cargo bays, using a freighter frame with larger design and freighter hu'll, which lets it by cargo bays for 1 hp each, so 8 or so cargo bays... or 1125 per cargo bay (a little less because it has base cargo)

So the base looks to be about 4 which with 8 cargo bays gets you to about 8192 from cargo bays so 308 from the frame&sil

A yt-1300 4^4 = 256 per cargo bay so no cargo bays or maybe it has a freighter frame but not a freighter hull, and that would mean a base of 3 so 81 enc for a cargo bay, an isd might have a carrier hull on a destroyer frame. It has 15000 enc, 3^8=6561, if it had 2 cargo bays that would be 13122 leaving 1878 from the combination of frame and silhouette.

An ir-3f has 1800 enc, and without a freighter hull each cargo bay would provide 243 enc at a cost of 2 hp. Or 7 cargo bays for 14 enc. Or maybe all cargo bays cost 1 end? But with a freighter hull it could have 1 cargo bay for 1024 end, and get the rest from a freighter or customs frame, or spend advantage to add on cargo pods...

But I think that we've found how volume scales with silhouette... vol ~ 4^Sil and length ~ (4^sil)^(1/3)~1.5874^sil.

Thanks. Glad you like the sil+1 cap on armour. However I was thinking to go over the cap it could be a 1 or 2T thing (select once). I think there are some other examples of vehicles that have more than sil+1 In armour. I just can' say off the top of my head.

As to hull additions we have...

Patrol boat

Carrier

Bulk freighter (maybe)

...

Wouldn't the combat hull be a patrol boat type though?

12 hours ago, jayc007 said:

Seriously though I'd say armour should be around sil+1 under normal circumstances.

I would limit more by frame type. Sil 3 covers tanks as well, which should be able to get higher than 4 armor IMO. By sil was my first thought until I considered ground vehicles.

I am still waiting on my copy. What hull types are currently in FO?

In FO we have hull types:

Deflective (more shields)

Combat (more armour)

Sleek (more speed)

Extended capacity (more encumberance)

Lightly armoured (more general)

And frame types:

Speeder bike

Landspeeder

Airspeeder

Walker

Starfighter

Freighter

Shuttles

Corvette

Frigate

Heavy cruiser

Destroyer

Space station.

What We need added (either as frames or as hull or some other form of attachment)

Carrier

Gunboat(maybe)-combat hull may cover this

Bulk frieghter(maybe)-extended hold hull may cover this

Some of the hull types may be more effective if they can be added twice or more ie extended hold, although that would more likely be a different type of attachment as in cargo bay attachment or hanger bay attachment

Oh and weapon attachments. I think hull type and silhouette should play a limiting factor on the number of weapons that can be added though

Man, I can't wait to get my copy. I don't know that I will have much to contribute to this custom rule set until I can actually fully digest the RAW from the book directly. Just looking at the list you provided, I can see combinations that could be made into carriers and multi-role ships, depending on the details of all those options and attachments available. It may be that we just need more attachment options, but I can't judge without having all the information in my hands.

12 hours ago, jayc007 said:

Thanks. Glad you like the sil+1 cap on armour. However I was thinking to go over the cap it could be a 1 or 2T thing (select once). I think there are some other examples of vehicles that have more than sil+1 In armour. I just can' say off the top of my head.

As to hull additions we have...

Patrol boat

Carrier

Bulk freighter (maybe)

...

Wouldn't the combat hull be a patrol boat type though?

Patrol "boat" / actually "ship" would be a frame not a hull. But I'm thinking of a well rounded/multi purpose hull is needed.

I see a "patrol ship" frame as being sil 5, it has something like 40 htt (but htt will depend on sil) than a corvette a crew of 8 and 8 passengers, it's special features is that a ship with this frame can have a speed 1 greater than otherwise allowed by it's silhouette (the RAW table 3-3 maximum speed by silhouette), and it can receive the integrated improvement twice instead of once, enc will be something like 20. It would probably have better than average hp.

A corvette would have something like a base of 175 enc, a corellian corvette would be a corvette frame with a freighter hull. A marauder corvette would be a corvette frame with a carrier hull. A raider corvette would be a patrol ship frame, and a "gunship" hull (maybe a gunship hull can add hp by increasing crew requirements, or it just makes buying weapons cheaper and comes with higher crew requirements). Dp20 gunship would be the same. And maybe the mc30c frigate would be the same.

But there needs to be a cost associated with larger crew requirements, maybe the ship just costs more credits... and has higher maintenance requirements, maybe work up black dice/difficulty upgrades for having less than the required crew

And we need to work up a system for consumables, I'm thinking of it eating up end instead of hp.

Freighter frame makes cargo bays cost 1 hp, freighter hull makes a cargo bay provide ~4^Sil instead of ~3^sill enc. Carrier hull makes dedicated hanger bay cost 1 hp.

I'm thinking that a benefit of the heavy cruiser and destroyer frames is that they can both have armor = sil+2. Destroyer might also get the 1 hp dedicated hanger bay benefit that a carrier hull gets.

That way a destroyer frame with a gunship hull can produce an isd. And I'd scale back the base crew requirements of the frigate/heavy cruiser/destroyer frames. That has the added benefit

3 hours ago, AeroEng42 said:

Man, I can't wait to get my copy. I don't know that I will have much to contribute to this custom rule set until I can actually fully digest the RAW from the book directly. Just looking at the list you provided, I can see combinations that could be made into carriers and multi-role ships, depending on the details of all those options and attachments available. It may be that we just need more attachment options, but I can't judge without having all the information in my hands.

Well with regards to carriers there is nothing as per RAW to allow the carrying of vehicles other than the add on hanger attachment from the ?core books?... which as we know is very limiting and doesn't allow for the carrying of sil-1 vehicles. So you couldn't make a maurader class corvette or a minstrel class ship for that matter. Both of which can take a couple of sil4 shuttles as well as their compliment of fighters. The maurader in particular can hold 44 silhouettes of vehicles. The add on hanger is limited to a max of 10 silhouettes in a sil5 ship and you can't add it to a smaller ship than sil5.

There are a fair number of options in sil4 and under vehicles (although there are a couple missing) but in sil 5+ the options are very limited. I mean where is the sil5 bulk freighter with 10000 encumberance and the sil5 transport with 1000 passengers and crews of 10 or less?

Although you could make something kinda like that with the larger projects on a sil4 frame you would still have a lot less encumberance and passengers than are available by FO RAW.

Freighter frame base- sil4 100 enc 4 pax 2 crew

Larger scope 1A, extra HP 2A, integrated improvement 2A (+- crew or pax by 1/2 rounded up (5A total)

Expanded cap hold (increase pax and enc by 25) now sil5 125 enc 2 crew pax 31

10xsil5 enc increases(50 enc) and 8xsil5 pax increases(40 pax) mods so now we are at 175 enc and 71 pax

Now advantage chart

cargo pods 1A (increase enc by sil(x2 for frighter 4 if using triumph) so 10 per pod lets say 5A so 50 more enc.

So now we are maxed at 225 enc and 71 pax. The only way to get more is by building a corvette or larger ship. But then you have a much larger crew requirement... 100 for a corvette with an2A cost to reduce to 50

So as you can see there are some frame and hull options missing/ needed

Is it frame and hull options missing, or did the devs deliberately make it worse with respect to spending Advantage and Triumph? Looking at your examples, not only does it appear you can't exactly replicate a bulk freighter, but you can't even replicate the low end crew requirement of a CR90 (30 crew). Perhaps we need additional attachments, including 0 hardpoint software programs for something like minimal crew?

1 minute ago, AeroEng42 said:

Is it frame and hull options missing, or did the devs deliberately make it worse with respect to spending Advantage and Triumph? Looking at your examples, not only does it appear you can't exactly replicate a bulk freighter, but you can't even replicate the low end crew requirement of a CR90 (30 crew). Perhaps we need additional attachments, including 0 hardpoint software programs for something like minimal crew?

I think the frames and hulls need significant revision, there's a points where you replace a took rather than patching leaks.

Need a transport hull that lets you carry a lot of passengers, with lower per person costs, need a racing hull that's crazy weak but increases TOP speed by 1 and maybe allows you to punch it regardless of silhouette or maybe in a sil 5 or less ship.

In case you hadn't noticed I'm planning to scrap all of the RAW hulls, and replace them with a new set of hulls that provide unique capability.

In regards to carriers... we could do a frame and a hull. There is a fair bit more flex with having both. And when you build both on a ship you get an added benefit... perhaps an addtional sil-1, perhaps 0 HP cost, twice the carried sil value, maybe even an upgrade to do repairs or build new craft on that ship? It's really not much different than the freighter with extended hold... that's basically a freighter frame and freighter hull.

Each cargo bay costs 2 hp and increases encumbrance by an amount that depends on silhouette and hull type, for the freighter HULL type, enc increase is

Sil 1: +4

Sil 2: +15

Sil 3: +65

Sil 4: 255

Sil 5: 1025

Sil 6: 5000

Sil 7: 16500

Sil 8: 65500

Sil 9: 265000

For all other hull types a cargo bay increases enc by

Sil 1: +3

Sil 2: +10

Sil 3: +30

Sil 4: +80

Sil 5: +245

Sil 6: +730

Sil 7: +2200

Sil 8: +6600

Sil 9: +20000

For the freighter FRAME type a cargo bay costs 1 hp instead of 2 hp