4 minutes ago, salamar_dree said:

Perfect.

I should include the HPs from Integrated Improvements in the total Customization HP, right?

No... the customization hp are what's listed in the RAW/official stat block. The advantage/triumph for integrated system, folding seats, engineering acces is how the extra/bonus hp gets (indirectly) costed

Vehicle: 85-XS Odyssey

Vehicle: 610-AVA "Dart"

20 minutes ago, salamar_dree said:

Vehicle: 85-XS Odyssey

Price RAW: 4500

Sil RAW: 2
Frame Sil: 2
Custom HP: 4
Excess HP: 0
Frame: Speeder Bike
Engine: Single Ion Coil
Hull: Transport
Total Advantage: 13
Total Triumph: 1
Total Threat: 0
Total Despair: 0
Ambiguously Small: 0
Officers' Quarters: 0
Passenger Quarters: 1
Reinforced Construction: 1
Extra HP: 2
Integrated Improvement: 0
Larger Scope: 0
Elegant Design: 0
Ambiguously Large: 0
Modifiable: 0
Too Big/Tough to Hurt: 0
Difficult to Repair: 0
Faulty Wiring: 0
Enhanced Output: 1
Fine-tuned Circuits: 0
Enhanced Power to Deflectors: 0
Easy to Repair: 0
Fine Tuned: 0
Treacherous to Repair: 0
Unreliable Output: 0
Prone to Failure: 0
Fuel Hog: 0
Safety Limiters: 0
Cargo Pod: 1
Layered Plating: 0
Maneuvering Fins: 2
Flies Like A Brick: 0
Tight Quarters: 0
Loose Plating: 0
Improved Safety Features: 0
Customized Controls: 0
Distinctive Style: 0
Deceptive Advertising: 0
Masterful Construction: 0
Finicky Internals: 0
Doesn't Look Like Much: 0
Complex Construction: 0
Defective Seals: 0
Total Mods: 0
Dedicated Cargo Pods: 1
Dedicated Hangar Bays: 0
Dedicated Medical Bays: 0
Dedicated Repair Bays: 0
Dedicated Passenger Berths: 0
Modular Pod Docking Clamp: 0
Mothership Docking Clamp: 0
Astromech Droid Socket: 0
Auxillary Generator: 0
Bike Rack: 0
Engineering Access: 0
Folding Design: 0
Folding Seats: 0
Escape Pods: 0
Highly Automated Systems: 0
High Output Repulsor Coils: 0
Hyperdrive Module: 0
Life Support Systems: 0
Military Grade Shield Generators: 0
Navicomputer: 0
Oversized External Weapon Mount: 0
Reinforced Frame: 0
Sensors (Basic): 1
Sensors: 0
Weapons Bank: 0

PM me your email address and I'll give you permission to edit the spreadsheet directly. I'd also like a separate page for each vehicle.

@Jareth Valar pm me your email address and I'll give you edit permission on the spreadsheet... if anyone else wants to contribute to the effort pm me and I'll decide on a case by case basis.

Going to be reading over the changes since my last time in the thread.

I've noticed that it's almost as expensive to make a speeder bike as it is to make a full landspeeder with the same engine and hull type, with only 250 credits difference. That seems a bit off to me, and one possible solution that comes to mind is having the speeder bike frame with a lower than standard VSL value.

31 minutes ago, BronzeDog said:

Going to be reading over the changes since my last time in the thread.

I've noticed that it's almost as expensive to make a speeder bike as it is to make a full landspeeder with the same engine and hull type, with only 250 credits difference. That seems a bit off to me, and one possible solution that comes to mind is having the speeder bike frame with a lower than standard VSL value.

So prices were being saved until *now* and *now* I need the data needed to evaluate the basis functions in a big (nonlinear) least squares problem to determine ***PRICING***

Here's a list of vehicles that I think will cover most of the domain

And here's the spreadsheet that needs to be filled in for me to be able to set up the least squares problem to solve for pricing

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1zgfDLnxgKWoQnlDMEUb2E0rJAdvsaY_X/view?usp=sharing

If you want to help out I'll give you edit permissions

@salamar_dree what's the status? Is there anything that you're waiting on from me? because I may be able to work on it tonight or tomorrow morning. Btw your promoting got me to re-engage on this project.

4 hours ago, EliasWindrider said:

@salamar_dree what's the status? Is there anything that you're waiting on from me? because I may be able to work on it tonight or tomorrow morning. Btw your promoting got me to re-engage on this project.

I've added the 85-XS, the 610-AVA Dart, and the Aratech 74-Z to the spreadsheet already.

I'm hoping to knock out the rest of the speeder bikes soon!

(And you're welcome! I've used these rules to build a custom shuttle for a pbp I'm in! I'm looking forward to building another ship when my character can afford it!)

The Foot Speeder is actually under the gear section instead of the vehicle section. It's a 4 Enc piece of gear that (similar to the jetpack and jetboots) turns the character into a Sil 1 vehicle.

Foot Speeder (Cr 2000, Rarity 4, Sil 1, Spd 1, Handling -1, SST 4, 5 meter ceiling; no HTT)

We can stat them, but it'll be extremely wonky.

It's really just an engine with controls that the user stands on.

1 hour ago, salamar_dree said:

The Foot Speeder is actually under the gear section instead of the vehicle section. It's a 4 Enc piece of gear that (similar to the jetpack and jetboots) turns the character into a Sil 1 vehicle.

Foot Speeder (Cr 2000, Rarity 4, Sil 1, Spd 1, Handling -1, SST 4, 5 meter ceiling; no HTT)

We can stat them, but it'll be extremely wonky.

It's really just an engine with controls that the user stands on.

Give it a try and we may throw it out depending on how wonky it is

On 11/8/2020 at 2:37 PM, salamar_dree said:

Vehicle: 610-AVA "Dart"

Price RAW: 2400

Sil RAW: 2
Frame Sil: 2
Custom HP: 4
Excess HP: 0
Frame: Speeder Bike
Engine: Single Ion Coil
Hull: Basic
Total Advantage: 16
Total Triumph: 1
Total Threat: 0
Total Despair: 0
Ambiguously Small: 0
Officers' Quarters: 0
Passenger Quarters: 1
Reinforced Construction: 0
Extra HP: 2
Integrated Improvement: 0
Larger Scope: 0
Elegant Design: 0
Ambiguously Large: 0
Modifiable: 0
Too Big/Tough to Hurt: 0
Difficult to Repair: 0
Faulty Wiring: 0
Enhanced Output: 1
Fine-tuned Circuits: 0
Enhanced Power to Deflectors: 0
Easy to Repair: 0
Fine Tuned: 0
Treacherous to Repair: 0
Unreliable Output: 0
Prone to Failure: 0
Fuel Hog: 0
Safety Limiters: 0
Cargo Pod: 3
Layered Plating: 0
Maneuvering Fins: 3
Flies Like A Brick: 0
Tight Quarters: 0
Loose Plating: 0
Improved Safety Features: 0
Customized Controls: 0
Distinctive Style: 0
Deceptive Advertising: 0
Masterful Construction: 0
Finicky Internals: 0
Doesn't Look Like Much: 0
Complex Construction: 0
Defective Seals: 0
Total Mods: 0
Dedicated Cargo Pods: 0
Dedicated Hangar Bays: 0
Dedicated Medical Bays: 0
Dedicated Repair Bays: 0
Dedicated Passenger Berths: 0
Modular Pod Docking Clamp: 0
Mothership Docking Clamp: 0
Astromech Droid Socket: 0
Auxillary Generator: 0
Bike Rack: 0
Engineering Access: 0
Folding Design: 1
Folding Seats: 0
Escape Pods: 0
Highly Automated Systems: 0
High Output Repulsor Coils: 0
Hyperdrive Module: 0
Life Support Systems: 0
Military Grade Shield Generators: 0
Navicomputer: 0
Oversized External Weapon Mount: 0
Reinforced Frame: 0
Sensors (Basic): 1
Sensors: 0
Weapons Bank: 0

Note: Needs an Armor reduction to 0. Hull defect and Threat cost?

Threat equal to advantage used in layered plating (which I think is 2)

@EliasWindrider

I have a few more Speeder Bikes to go.

I have been trying to include notes in the individual sheets.

There are quite a few Armor 0 bikes, so definitely need to factor that in.

The easiest is to either add a defect to the hull table or reduce at least the Basic Hull's Armor to 0 (and add an extra Armor mod).

Cheers!

Reduced protection, 2 threat.

I like Reduced Protection. Are you adding it to the Hull crafting table or possibly to the frame table or to both?

Maybe add a special onto Speeder Bikes that they get a -1 to armor no matter the Hull, with a minimum zero disclaimer. I leave wording to you.

I mean, you don't see armored Harley Davidsons rolling down the street. But on a more serious note, the armor rating also equates to the structural make up of the vehicle (i.e. how hard they are to hurt/wreck), and speeders are small, light, and fast. Generally without an enclosure to protect the driver and passenger. So a low structural rating.

Should be part of the base frame architecture, not just a design choice (creative design talent) or fluke of the dice (uncancelled threat) in how you build it.

The Foot Speeder is doable, not perfect but close.

Foot Speeder

Frame – Speeder bike
Base Silhouette: 2 - 1 (from elegant design) = 1
Base Hull trauma: silhouette
Max altitude: 15 meters
Crew: 1
Encumbrance Capacity: 1
Passenger Capacity: None
Customization Hard Points: 2 + Sil = 3
Cost: 250 cr
Time: 12 hours
Frame Crafting Table options: Elegant Design (reduce sil by 1)

Engine – Single Ion Coil
Base speed: 1
Base Defense: 0/0/0/0
Base System Strain: (2 x sil) + 2 (from Fine-Tuned Circuits) = 4 total
Hard Points Required: 2
Cost: 500 cr
Time: 24 hours
Engine Crafting table options: 2 Fine-Tuned Circuits (increase system strain by sil)

Hull – Basic
Base armor: 1 – 1 (for speeder bike) = 0
Base Handling: -2
Cost: 500 cr
Time: 48 hours

Assembly
Cost: none
Time: 24 hours

Attachments
Folding Design: Reduce silhouette by one when stowed/folded (encumbrance 5 when stowed folded)
Cost: 500 cr (2 or 1 HP)

Total Cost: 1,750 cr
Total Time: 108 hours (4.5 days)

Notes :

Needs 1 extra Hard Point from one of the crafting tables (dealers choice) or reduce the HP cost of folding design by 1 (still TBD in the doc).

Only problems are the Max altitude of 15 meters instead of 4, can't reduce Hull trauma to zero, and the encumbrance when stored is 5 instead of 4. Almost forgot, it has a storage capacity of 1 encumbrance.

@Gordian Naught

Yep. I added the Foot Speeder into the spreadsheet, with notes.

My big issue is that it isn't a vehicle. Like the Jetpack, it's a piece of gear that allows a character to act like a Sil 1 vehicle (which is, I guess, because at the time all PC characters were assumed to be Sil 1; now you can have Sil 0 or Sil 2 characters).

It doesn't have an HTT as it takes damage as gear (via Sunder, etc.).

It doesn't "fold" down to 4 Encumbrance. It simply is 4 Encumbrance if carried/stowed instead of ridden.

I'm not trying to be antagonistic with you, just pointing out that in the end, some things really don't fit the vehicle crafting rules.

Now, if a special and separate single check crafting table was created to simulate the Foot Speeder, Jetpack and Jet Boots (maybe even the Gravchute), that would be cool.

Not sure if it would have a home in the Nubian Design Collective, though.

I understand, just running the numbers to see if it was possible.

I didn’t see that you had already done it when I scrolled through the spreadsheet.

11 hours ago, Gordian Naught said:

I like Reduced Protection. Are you adding it to the Hull crafting table or possibly to the frame table or to both?

Maybe add a special onto Speeder Bikes that they get a -1 to armor no matter the Hull, with a minimum zero disclaimer. I leave wording to you.

I mean, you don't see armored Harley Davidsons rolling down the street. But on a more serious note, the armor rating also equates to the structural make up of the vehicle (i.e. how hard they are to hurt/wreck), and speeders are small, light, and fast. Generally without an enclosure to protect the driver and passenger. So a low structural rating.

Should be part of the base frame architecture, not just a design choice (creative design talent) or fluke of the dice (uncancelled threat) in how you build it.

I was thinking the same thing

@salamar_dree can you remove 2 threat from speeder bikes with armor zero and add 2 advantage to all speeder bikes with 1+ armor?

That might not be quite right... the speeder bike frame will get the stripped down design feature which says to add reduced protection on the frame crafting check.

This may not have been clear but I'm trying to price the cost of making an attempt to manufacture each component and assembly in a manner that is consistent with RAW vehicle prices.... this is not an attempt to duplicate RAW vehicle prices. Having eyeballed the aggressor assault fighter I expect it to be significantly different than trend (comparatived to other crafted vehicles cheaper) ... but since there was a despair on the engine for safety limiters, that means the difficulty for the factory was not simple which means more failed attempts during mass production to make up the difference.

1 hour ago, EliasWindrider said:

I was thinking the same thing

@salamar_dree can you remove 2 threat from speeder bikes with armor zero and add 2 advantage to all speeder bikes with 1+ armor?

That might not be quite right... the speeder bike frame will get the stripped down design feature which says to add reduced protection on the frame crafting check.

@salamar_dree

If you target an armor of 1 and switch to a hull with 2 armor... that could be different.

@EliasWindrider

I would suggest that a good solution is that all Speeder Bike* Frames lower the base armor of any Hull by 1.

They can easily use Layered Plating to increase this.

* While I haven't started on the Land/Air Speeders, I have looked them over a bit. Enough to see that 0 Armor is common, so it might be a good option to apply it to all three Frames.

A case could be made for Walkers as well, but that one might be best dealt with using Reduced Protection (which I have as a defect for the Hull Crafting table), as I think only a few Walkers have 0 Armor.

I changed the spreadsheet before I saw your update, so I had already dropped the Threat/Reduced Protection and added Advantage/Layered Plating as needed.

The barc has an optional sidecar which I think would be a modular pod... at first glance I didn't see it in the table.

Of the 9 Speeder Bikes (including the Foot Speeder), only 2 have Armor 1. The rest have Armor 0.

Both the BARC and the Starhawk can have Sidecars. I haven't checked the BARC, but I did put a note in the Starhawk spreadsheet entry about it's sidecar as an attachment.

Speeder Bike Only:

Sidecar Attachment

Cr 500, HP 1, 1 Passenger, Integrated Folding Seats (as it can instead hold 10 Enc instead).

8 minutes ago, salamar_dree said:

@EliasWindrider

I would suggest that a good solution is that all Speeder Bike* Frames lower the base armor of any Hull by 1.

They can easily use Layered Plating to increase this.

* While I haven't started on the Land/Air Speeders, I have looked them over a bit. Enough to see that 0 Armor is common, so it might be a good option to apply it to all three Frames.

A case could be made for Walkers as well, but that one might be best dealt with using Reduced Protection (which I have as a defect for the Hull Crafting table), as I think only a few Walkers have 0 Armor.

I changed the spreadsheet before I saw your update, so I had already dropped the Threat/Reduced Protection and added Advantage/Layered Plating as needed.

That's what I did... through the mechanism of reduced protection. When you craft the frame the hull doesn't exist yet so as an order of operations... apply reduced protection to the hull when it's made.... I might call the frame special reduced protection.... apply 1x reduced protection hull crafting defect to any hull added to this frame.... rather than stripped down design.