Exhausted Heavy Weapons units and shooting

By Icelom, in Rules

7 minutes ago, Kalandros said:

Its not less meaningful and its not hurting the game.
You're firing the rifle, that means you're not using the weapon you used points on.

Making things easier for the player always hurts the game.

2 minutes ago, Rumar said:

Making things easier for the player always hurts the game.

What a meaningless statement. This game makes everything easier and simpler compared to the mess that is Warhammer.

Now if you don't have anything to prove your point, the rules are still that a full unit of 6 minis (extra trooper and the heavy weapon upgrade) will shoot with 6 weapons. If your heavy weapon is exhausted - it is not the mini holding it that is exhausted and somehow unable to attack - you've got nothing in the rules to even suggest this - so the unit will fire 6 dice with their blasters until the heavy weapon is readied with a recover action.

5 minutes ago, Kalandros said:

What a meaningless statement. This game makes everything easier and simpler compared to the mess that is Warhammer.

Now if you don't have anything to prove your point, the rules are still that a full unit of 6 minis (extra trooper and the heavy weapon upgrade) will shoot with 6 weapons. If your heavy weapon is exhausted - it is not the mini holding it that is exhausted and somehow unable to attack - you've got nothing in the rules to even suggest this - so the unit will fire 6 dice with their blasters until the heavy weapon is readied with a recover action.

That is a misunderstanding. Making things easier tactically hurts the game, not making rules easier to grasp. Your interpretation of cumbersome is more cumbersome. To prove my point: every card lists the dice. There is nothing on the ion trooper or rocket launcher trooper card, that would point to a possible weapons switch. And the cards trump the rules. So stop that overly complicated rules lawyering. Besides, real lawyers interpret rules always as intended, not as written.

6 minutes ago, Rumar said:

That is a misunderstanding. Making things easier tactically hurts the game, not making rules easier to grasp. Your interpretation of cumbersome is more cumbersome. To prove my point: every card lists the dice. There is nothing on the ion trooper or rocket launcher trooper card, that would point to a possible weapons switch. And the cards trump the rules. So stop that overly complicated rules lawyering. Besides, real lawyers interpret rules always as intended, not as written.

That’s because the basic rule for heavy weapons upgrade cards already dictates that they can use any weapon that the unit can use.

RRG page 46:

Personnel and heavy weapon upgrades can add trooper minis to a unit. While attacking, these minis can use the weapons of the unit card they are equipped to.
» Heavy weapon upgrade cards include the ranges, attack dice, keywords, and other rules speci c to the weapon that the Heavy Weapon upgrade card grants to the unit.
» While attacking, only the speci c mini sculpted with this weapon can use it, though it may choose to use one of the unit’s other weapons instead.

Edited by Derrault
Include citation of why this is not a debate.

RRG pg 46 under "Weapons"

Personnel and heavy weapon upgrades can add trooper minis to a unit. While attacking, these minis can use the weapons of the unit card they are equipped to.


»» Heavy weapon upgrade cards include the ranges, attack dice, keywords, and other rules specific to the weapon that the Heavy Weapon upgrade card grants to the unit.
»» While attacking, only the specific mini sculpted with this weapon can use it, though it may choose to use one of the unit’s other weapons instead.

Seems crystal clear to me.

6 hours ago, Derrault said:

That’s because the basic rule for heavy weapons upgrade cards already dictates that they can use any weapon that the unit can use.

RRG page 46:

Personnel and heavy weapon upgrades can add trooper minis to a unit. While attacking, these minis can use the weapons of the unit card they are equipped to.
» Heavy weapon upgrade cards include the ranges, attack dice, keywords, and other rules speci c to the weapon that the Heavy Weapon upgrade card grants to the unit.
» While attacking, only the speci c mini sculpted with this weapon can use it, though it may choose to use one of the unit’s other weapons instead.

Reread it and I stand corrected. My apologies. I still don't like it, but that is, what FFG apparently intended. Limiting it to grenades or other cards would have been mentioned.