So based on the a separate thread, Drokatta became a focal point. I used to love playing Sabs, before the hidden from Rangers and Equays put them away in the corner to sit and sulk. With Mos Eisely and Jabba's Palace being being 4 of the 6 maps, the distance isn't so bad anymore. They are still squishy, but if I 'm looking at capitalizing on Drokatta I think some other Heavy Weapons would be nice. I'd also like to have enough activations that Han can pick and choose his battles.

Thoughts?

◄12▪ Han Solo
◄9▪ Drokkatta
◄7Rebel Saboteur
◄3▪ Gideon Argus
◄3▪ Mak Eshkarey
◄2▪ C-3P0
◄2▪ Rebel High Command
◄2 Alliance Smuggler

◄2 Alliance Smuggler
◄-2▪ Rogue Smuggler

Command Deck:

◄(3) ▪ On the Lam
◄(2) ▪ I Make My Own Luck
◄(2) ▪ Lock On
◄(2) ▪▪ Slippery Target
◄(2) ▪ Heart of Freedom
◄(1) ▪ Brace for Impact
◄(1) ▪ Negation
◄(1) ▪ Collateral Damage
◄(1) ▪ Strategic Shift
◄(0) ▪ Battle Scars
◄(0) ▪ Element of Surprise
◄(0) ▪ Planning
◄(0) ▪ Stall for Time
◄(0) ▪ Brace Yourself
◄(0) ▪ Devotion

I ran a very similar build at my last regionals and did ok. It's not the strongest, for reasons that you mention, but it's fun. Drokkatta is a blast (Pun intended).

I would first consider dropping Mak. His utility is a cheap spy count, and actions to use on cards like Strategic shift are his best features. If you're not running comm disruptions, he doesn't have that much value. I think there's a couple things you can consider with your last 9 points (3Mak, 2 RHC, 2Smuggler, 2Smuggler). I like R2 better than RHC. In the current rotation maps, he can get to the terminal in round 1 (either with Gideon movement or Hera bonus), and having that card during the round is more valuable than getting it at the end of the round. I also love Hera with the Sabs. Adding modifiers is great, and she can assist a little with their accuracy challenges. You can't go wrong with Hera, R2, 1 Smuggler.

In the command deck, if you do drop Mak, you'll probably want to replace Strategic shift as you won't want to waste a Sab action on it. Intelligence Leak would be a great replacement.

17 hours ago, Fightwookies said:

Intelligence Leak would be a great replacement

Intel Leak is legit. Oh you just devotioned your Blaze of Glory, let me think.......yep, I don't want to get attacked twice by IG.

I also don't think Heart of Freedom is necessarily worth it any more. Heavy hitters like Han, Vader, IG, eSentries, eWeequays, etc., don't care about your extra 2 health in most situations. The condition removal is situationally nice, but I don't find myself with conditions very often. The 2 movement points is for sure nice, but not for 2 pts.\

Devotion seems wasted to me on I Make My Own Luck, I'd rather have Take and still have 2 pts to work with for something like Tools for the Job.

Personal opinions of course.

5 hours ago, ImperialOfficer said:

So based on the a separate thread, Drokatta became a focal point. I used to love playing Sabs, before the hidden from Rangers and Equays put them away in the corner to sit and sulk. With Mos Eisely and Jabba's Palace being being 4 of the 6 maps, the distance isn't so bad anymore. They are still squishy, but if I 'm looking at capitalizing on Drokatta I think some other Heavy Weapons would be nice. I'd also like to have enough activations that Han can pick and choose his battles.

Thoughts?

◄12▪ Han Solo
◄9▪ Drokkatta
◄7Rebel Saboteur
◄3▪ Gideon Argus
◄3▪ Mak Eshkarey
◄2▪ C-3P0
◄2▪ Rebel High Command
◄2 Alliance Smuggler

◄2 Alliance Smuggler
◄-2▪ Rogue Smuggler

Command Deck:

◄(3) ▪ On the Lam
◄(2) ▪ I Make My Own Luck
◄(2) ▪ Lock On
◄(2) ▪▪ Slippery Target
◄(2) ▪ Heart of Freedom
◄(1) ▪ Brace for Impact
◄(1) ▪ Negation
◄(1) ▪ Collateral Damage
◄(1) ▪ Strategic Shift
◄(0) ▪ Battle Scars
◄(0) ▪ Element of Surprise
◄(0) ▪ Planning
◄(0) ▪ Stall for Time
◄(0) ▪ Brace Yourself
◄(0) ▪ Devotion

Yeah, I just took a similar list to the MN Regionals, but using Chewie, Drok, ESabs, Hera, Gideon, 3P0, 2 Smugglers. The hardest part was choosing when to activate Chewbacca. It's easiest on Nal Hutta and hardest on Alleys, especially against Vader lists. I split sets 2-2.

I would say that Deadeye and Urgency are both great cards with Sabs. A focused Sab with either of those can threaten a Round 1 kill on a number of "safe" figures in the back, and Deadeye + Hera can give you a ridiculous 7 range on anything with Priority Target ... I've been tempted to drop Chewie for Ko-Tun and Jyn or something. I never did get Collateral Damage to synergize well with blast or Drokatta.

I wouldn't run devotion for just one character; maybe throw in Officer's Training instead and let Han or Hera mill for the cards you want?

Ive played a similar list and the sabs just don't carry any weight. Even with targeting computer their damage can be horrible and they die much too fast.

I play against a lot of imperial lists and unfortunately Pierce 2 is actually a liability. It is similar to BT-1 surges, but 2 less dice for damage. Stun is amazing but these guys need a lot of support to be truly efficient. Take eSabs against IG or Vader or someone that rolls well on the defense die. I've found too many times that you only do 1-2 damage if you roll well. Sometimes you can't even get the Stun to go off, because you have to do damage first

Alright, so clearly my fondness for the rebel sabs is outdated to say the least.

From regional reports it looks like survive-ability is catching on. Don't laugh, but with Mos eisley and Jabba the maps are small enough to get in their face. With nal hatta, the high health figures can get to the shield generators and earn some points.

Because of the high health cost, the amount of work that drokk can do, do you think this can stand up to the current meta?

10 figures at 84 health. 7 activations

◄9▪ Drokkatta
◄82x Wookie Warrior
◄8Echo Base Trooper
◄3▪ Gideon Argus
◄2▪ C-3P0
◄2Alliance Smuggler

Im looking to try localy and looking for feedback

Han + RS, Drokkotta, Jyn, Lando, Guideon, 3po, and R2.

25 minutes ago, ImperialOfficer said:

Alright, so clearly my fondness for the rebel sabs is outdated to say the least.

From regional reports it looks like survive-ability is catching on. Don't laugh, but with Mos eisley and Jabba the maps are small enough to get in their face. With nal hatta, the high health figures can get to the shield generators and earn some points.

Because of the high health cost, the amount of work that drokk can do, do you think this can stand up to the current meta?

10 figures at 84 health. 7 activations

◄9▪ Drokkatta
◄82x Wookie Warrior
◄8Echo Base Trooper
◄3▪ Gideon Argus
◄2▪ C-3P0
◄2Alliance Smuggler

There was a conversation at one point about EEchoes vs rWookie Warriors, and essentially everyone landed on the Echo side, given they had a ranged attack and the pierce block might mean that it takes 2 huge or 3 middling attacks to take down either figure.

In the current meta, it feels like Vader can one-shot an EEcho, but maybe not a Wookie. And there are two new brawler-movement cards that are both priced well for inclusion. The wookies are likely to get to their target with the right build.

All of that said, I'm not sure I'd give up the trooper synergy. Wookie cards don't do a lot for you (Battle Scars is the best of them, and Drokatta doesn't really need the surge help, and the Warriors are unlikely to live if you leave them someplace they can be attacked, so you're not going to get the extra token). Pummel would be a fun card, but the Wookies don't really swing hard, and it takes a lot of positioning play to basically commit to a start-of-round middling double-attack. On the other hand, switch one wookie warrior to an EEcho, and you've got 4 figures to use Call the Vanguard, Grenadier, and Concentrated Fire on.

As for Drokatta, you could think about swapping her for Ko-Tun (another CtV/Gren/CF figure) and letting her hand out block tokens. The extra two points are good for another Smuggler (fitting your objective focus), or you could swap out your current smuggler and use all four points for Hera, who can add 2 fairly needed accuracy to any of the Echoes.

Strategically, I might re-build the list from a trooper perspective.

2 x EEchoes (16)
1 x ERangers (12)
1 x Hera (4)
1 x Gideon (3)
1 x C3P0 (2)
1 x Smuggler (2)
1 x Balance of the Force

Basically, the Rangers become your heavy hitters instead of Drok (21 hp for 12 pts instead of 12 for 9), the Echoes are your objective campers/area control, Hera lends the equivalent of a command card each round (with a moderate shot), Gideon leads, 3P0 boxes, Smuggler runs points or camps terminal. 6 activations is tight, and your hp count is only going to hit 72, but only 3P0 and the Smuggler are behind paper dice.

If you want a hit-and-run build, you could swap a set of E-Echoes for Jyn and R2. Or you could swap the ERangers for Drok's single big hit and add R2 to get your good cards faster. Anyway. Season to taste.

Command Cards could include:
Covering Fire (3)
Grenadier (3)
Assassinate (3)
Tools for the Job (2)
Call the Vanguard (2)
Prepared for Battle (2) (Questionable; ideal choice here is Hera, but even on a trooper, you'll get SOME use here)
Brace for Impact (1)
Stealth Tactics (1)
Negation (1)
Ready Weapons (0)
Take Initiative (0) (Though this list is activation light)
Again, season to taste.

Brace Yourself could be fun, though it's optimal inclusion is in a Zillo list.

1 hour ago, IamtheBendu said:

Im looking to try localy and looking for feedback

Han + RS, Drokkotta, Jyn, Lando, Guideon, 3po, and R2.

I'm pretty sure that I played against a list like this at Omaha Regionals, but instead of Lando it had 3 rSmugglers. @Fightwookies , maybe?

He had a command card list that included Smuggled Supplies and I think Armed Escort, and basically marched up a Han/Jyn box with 3P0, often having 2 free evades (=2 cunning blocks) each round. Drok and Han did big hitting work for him, and the Smugglers grabbed objectives from behind their covering fire.

He wiped the floor with me; I didn't really have a plan for breaking apart a rebel box at the time.

I think there's a guy in the NW somewhere -- Utah, maybe? -- who plays Lando in a box regularly, and basically notes that On the Lam, Miracle Worker (he runs MHD) and Cheat to Win can all save Lando from death, so it can be done!

31 minutes ago, GottaBadFeelingAboutThis said:

I think there's a guy in the NW somewhere -- Utah, maybe? -- who plays Lando in a box regularly, and basically notes that On the Lam, Miracle Worker (he runs MHD) and Cheat to Win can all save Lando from death, so it can be done!

That is Kenny's box, he usually runs 9 activations, and Ashoka to do damage, but he really likes the Han list. I've played against this similar box and it sucks to play against. You just have to have patience, get focused and your card draw, then go blast, retreat, heal and blast again. After you failed to kill Lando for the third time you start to get frustrated.

1 hour ago, IamtheBendu said:

Im looking to try localy and looking for feedback

Han + RS, Drokkotta, Jyn, Lando, Guideon, 3po, and R2.

4 minutes ago, GottaBadFeelingAboutThis said:

I'm pretty sure that I played against a list like this at Omaha Regionals, but instead of Lando it had 3 rSmugglers. @Fightwookies , maybe?

He had a command card list that included Smuggled Supplies and I think Armed Escort, and basically marched up a Han/Jyn box with 3P0, often having 2 free evades (=2 cunning blocks) each round. Drok and Han did big hitting work for him, and the Smugglers grabbed objectives from behind their covering fire.

@IamtheBendu looks like you're at 38 points, which leaves room for an alliance smuggler, or rebel high command and Heroic Effort. It looks fun, but I just don't get Lando. He's never pulled his weight for me. I love Hera, she can help you get what you need to finish a figure when your dice fall short, which seems to happen pretty often for me, haha.

This list was good enough to get me some dice.

◄12▪ Han Solo
◄9▪ Drokkatta
◄5▪ Jyn Odan
◄4▪ Hera Syndulla
◄3▪ R2-D2
◄3▪ Gideon Argus
◄2▪ C-3P0
◄2Alliance Smuggler
◄2Alliance Smuggler
◄-2▪ Rogue Smuggler

I only ran 2 smugs. Stealth tactics is a must have card with this group, as it gives evades. I switched out Armed Escort for Brace for Impact If you play it right, you should be able to matchup against anything except hunters with Devious scheme on Nal Hutta.

I’ve been playing around with Chewie, Drokkatta, rWookiee Warriors, Hera, Gideon, 3PO, rSmuggler, and Balance of the Force.

It’s not top tier, but I’ve won some games with it and have had a lot of fun. Those Wookiee Warriors are great objective runners and body shields. Their melee attack is pretty limiting, but I get to make a lot of Wookiee growls while playing ?

-ryanjamal

1 hour ago, ryanjamal said:

I’ve been playing around with Chewie, Drokkatta, rWookiee Warriors, Hera, Gideon, 3PO, rSmuggler, and Balance of the Force.

That's what I'm planning to take for the next store tourney. #Wookies4Life

Here's a Drokatta question, off of @brettpkelly 's Twitch game vs @ryanjamal :

If Drokatta adds a rubble token next to difficult terrain (e.g., Nal Hutta swamps), is the blue border considered then to expand around it? Or does it cost 2 movement points to go from rubble to swamp, or swamp to rubble?

29 minutes ago, GottaBadFeelingAboutThis said:

Here's a Drokatta question, off of @brettpkelly 's Twitch game vs @ryanjamal :

If Drokatta adds a rubble token next to difficult terrain (e.g., Nal Hutta swamps), is the blue border considered then to expand around it? Or does it cost 2 movement points to go from rubble to swamp, or swamp to rubble?

Rubble tokens are considered to be difficult terrain. The rules say that when you enter a space that is difficult terrain, it costs the extra movement point. If you moved from difficult terrain to difficult terrain, it costs 2 movement points.

In other words, the terrain of each space you enter is considered separately when determining the movement points required to enter that space. (Or those spaces for large figures.)

The "blue border" is just a visual aid to specify which spaces are difficult terrain, just like "red border" (and walls) specify which spaces are blocking terrain.

1 hour ago, a1bert said:

In other words, the terrain of each space you enter is considered separately when determining the movement points required to enter that space. (Or those spaces for large figures.)

The "blue border" is just a visual aid to specify which spaces are difficult terrain, just like "red border" (and walls) specify which spaces are blocking terrain.

To clarify, moving within an area that has a blue border around multiple squares still costs 2 mp per each square entered? I feel like my last tournament someone may have shenanigan'd me on the cover-wall side of Nal Hutta, moving into a blue space @2 mp, then into the adjacent space for a mere 1, then out into a normal terrain space to take a shot. This should have cost all four movement points just to move into, then across, the two connected blue squares?

3 minutes ago, GottaBadFeelingAboutThis said:

To clarify, moving within an area that has a blue border around multiple squares still costs 2 mp per each square entered? I feel like my last tournament someone may have shenanigan'd me on the cover-wall side of Nal Hutta, moving into a blue space @2 mp, then into the adjacent space for a mere 1, then out into a normal terrain space to take a shot. This should have cost all four movement points just to move into, then across, the two connected blue squares?

Yup. It’s based on the space you’re moving to/entering. If you move from blue to blue, you’re enterting a space with difficult terrain. Moving out of a difficult terrain space to a normal space would just cost 1.

7 minutes ago, GottaBadFeelingAboutThis said:

To clarify, moving within an area that has a blue border around multiple squares still costs 2 mp per each square entered? I feel like my last tournament someone may have shenanigan'd me on the cover-wall side of Nal Hutta, moving into a blue space @2 mp, then into the adjacent space for a mere 1, then out into a normal terrain space to take a shot. This should have cost all four movement points just to move into, then across, the two connected blue squares?

Yes. Every square of blue terrain costs two movement points to move through unless an ability says otherwise.

Edit: Wookiee ninja’d

The space you exit does not matter when determining the movement point cost for the space you enter .

(This is among the usual mistakes. We didn't get it right until rereading the RRG either.)

35 minutes ago, a1bert said:

The space you exit does not matter when determining the movement point cost for the space you enter .

(This is among the usual mistakes. We didn't get it right until rereading the RRG either.)

... aaaaand I just added EEchoes back to my squad ...

I received a hard beating by Chewie, Drokkatta, 2 rWookiee Warriors, Hera on a regionals just recently. Looks like a fun list.

I've been crunching more numbers on Drokatta using http://mattyellen.github.io/imperial-assault-calculator/#/
I ran numbers against die rolls and max-results, and I used focused Drokatta dice (BGGY -- ahem, "Biggy" attacks?), adding the +2 damage surge and a +1 damage surge for Shrapnel , on the theory that this is the maximum you could deal to a single figure. Some cases I ran numbers adding either a surge or a damage from Hera, and took the higher percentage curve. Chewbacca attacks also run with Focus and Hera support.

IF I've got all this straight:

Against 3 blocks and 2 evades (a max-roll EJet with Agile, Fuel Upgrade, and Zillo discard), a focused Drokatta still has a 5% chance of a 6-damage attack. Goes up to 18% if Hera lends a surge. Add in demolish and you kill it. So focused Drok + Hera has a one-in-five shot of one-shot'ing (with Demolish ) even the best defended EJet. Chewbacca, for comparison, has a 2% chance of killing a max-roll, Agile/Upgrade/Zillo EJet, without Slam , rising to 13% with Hera support.

Against 5 blocks from an ERiot (Max roll black die + Zillo + Block Token), focused Drok has a 1% chance to deal 6 damage, rising to 13% with Hera support. Again, add in Demolish for the kill. Chewbacca with Hera has a 3% of 7 damage straight up.

Against 4 blocks from Palp (Max roll black die + Zillo), focused Drok with Hera support still has a 1% chance of dealing 8 damage, with 56% chance of doing 5 or more. Against the black die roll +1 Zillo, she's got a 1% chance of dealing 10 with Hera support ... the 50% chance against Palp for a Hera-backed shot is around 7 damage). Palp is theoretically killable in a single activation with either Maximum Firepower or Blitz, Positioning Advantage , and Hera, along with Demolish. Chewbacca + Hera gives you 3% chance of 8 damage, with 46% odds of 6 or more.

Against Vader max-blocks:
Against 7 blocks (triforce, triforce, zillo), focused Drok + Hera has a 45% chance of dealing 3, pre- Demolish . Chewbacca has a 51% chance of 3.
Against 4 blocks and an evade (triforce, evade, zillo), focused Drok + Hera has a 48% chance of dealing 5, pre- Demolish . Chewbacca is 46% of 5 (though you're probably taking it as 3+stun).

All of which is to say, Focused Drokatta + Hera offers pretty serious damage against current Imperial meta, even before considering splash damage from Shrapnel. Chewbacca still seems to be a slightly stronger hitter, especially given that he can often add stun along-with/instead-of damage, and between Slam and Chewie's command card support from Tools for the Job, Smuggled Supplies, or even Toxic Dart , Chewie's probably still the stronger figure, depending on how you feel about Debts Repaid shenanigans, and Demolish , ahem, takes a strain on your character or your build.

But I think we can agree that if there had been a couple of crazed Wookies in that hallway at the end of Rogue One, R2-D2 and C-3P0 might never have had to jettison onto Tattoine, and Uncle Lars and Aunt Beru might still be enjoying blue milk while Luke picked up some power converters at Toshi Station ...

Quick Focused Han Solo comparisons:

Against 3 blocks, 2 evades: max of 5 damage at 4%; 6 at 4% with Hera
Against 5 blocks: Max of 5 damage, at 20% with Hera
Against 4 blocks: Max of 5 damage at 20%; 6 damage at 20% with Hera

So the Wookies top out higher than Han does, although with the Re-Roll and all those Greens, Han's curves stay in the high percentages up through higher damage amounts farther than the Wookies' do, and Han does pretty well against EJets and ERiots just on rolls instead of max rolls -- with Hera he has a 10% chance to one-shot an ERiot with Zillo and a block token, which takes 9 damage, and he's got a 2/3 chance of doing 5 or more.

Even using Return Fire against an EJet, focused Han with Hera support has at least (the numbers are a little screwy with Agile, so I just added in the evade and a block from Zillo) a 10% chance of one-shot'ing the Jet, and I think it's actually closer to 37%, since one of the blocks would have to get spent to gain Agile . Meanwhile, an EJet using Fly-By has 57% chance of doing 4 against a white die, but that's before you factor in Cunning , and if 3P0 is near Han, the EJet has <40% chance of doing 3 damage.

19 hours ago, GottaBadFeelingAboutThis said:

adding the +2 damage surge and a +1 damage surge for Shrapnel , on the theory that this is the maximum you could deal to a single figure.

Why are you adding +1 damage for Shrapnel? My understanding for the second half of Shrapnel is it acts the same way as Blast only instead of doing 2 damage to adjacent figures/objects, you can opt to do one damage to figures/objects two spaces away from the target space. That doesn't include the target itself though, so Drokkatta only has a +2 damage surge for single target attacks. Other cards that have similar effects, like Grenadier, say something along the lines of "the figures on and within X spaces of the target space". So my impression is if the +1 damage for Drokkatta's Shrapnel were meant to hit the target as well, it would read, "if it did not miss, each figure and object on and within 2 spaces of the target space suffers 1 damage."

Am I off base here, guys? Am I the only one reading it that way?

EDIT: Answer was provided later in the thread.