4 hours ago, TheSapient said:

Nice! My initial feeling is that the concentration part of the improved spell should be dropped, as it is already fairly complicated.

Thanks! I feel like the question would come up how Concentration works in this case. I suppose it could just be that you have to spend a maneuver for each separately...

4 hours ago, TheSapient said:

Question. We've just been calling user created talents Community Created Content. Do people want individual credit? I think people should get credit.

Credit is nice, but for me, personally, I don't care one way or another. If it can be done cleanly (doesn't jumble the text) and you want to do the legwork, go for it! Connect four!

3 hours ago, TheSapient said:

Another question. Out of the Box it's listed as community created, but it's really a combination of a bunch of SW talents. Should I move it to the main body of the talents and cite one of the FFG talents as the source?

Probably worth making that statement prominent.

10 hours ago, yeti1069 said:

Idea for two new talents:

Mystic Theurge

Tier: 4

Passive

Choose one Magic skill. That skill becomes a career skill for you. You may learn and cast spells of that discipline, even if you already use another discipline of magic.

Mystic Theurge (Improved)

Tier: 5

Active

One per session, you may take the Mystic Theurge action. Flip a Story Point, and spend 3 strain to cast two spells at the same time. Determine the difficulty of each spell separately, then take the larger pool, and upgrade it by the smaller pool. Determine all effects from the spell with the higher difficulty first, then the lower. If only one spell has an ongoing effect, you may maintain the concentration on that effect as normal. If they both do, you may concentrate on just one, or spend 2 strain each round to concentrate on both.

Need to call out which Magic skill to use when casting this spell. I'm thinking the skill with the worse dice pool? Or fewest ranks? It can be hard to compare different pools. Need to look at what the language is for dual-wielding. Ahh...

"To assemble the dice pool, if the spells you are casting don't use the same Magic skill, take the lower of the two characteristics used for each, and the lower of the two ranks used for each to assemble your dice pool."

Is that clear enough it how it works?

26 minutes ago, yeti1069 said:

Need to call out which Magic skill to use when casting this spell. I'm thinking the skill with the worse dice pool? Or fewest ranks? It can be hard to compare different pools. Need to look at what the language is for dual-wielding. Ahh...

"To assemble the dice pool, if the spells you are casting don't use the same Magic skill, take the lower of the two characteristics used for each, and the lower of the two ranks used for each to assemble your dice pool."

Is that clear enough it how it works?

37 minutes ago, yeti1069 said:

Thanks! I feel like the question would come up how Concentration works in this case. I suppose it could just be that you have to spend a maneuver for each separately...

Credit is nice, but for me, personally, I don't care one way or another. If it can be done cleanly (doesn't jumble the text) and you want to do the legwork, go for it! Connect four!

Probably worth making that statement prominent.

For Theurge Improved, I think it best just to stick with the CRB maneuver rules. Have you looked at the math for the difficulty? Maybe it is very difficult to pull off, and should be priced lower. It is already once per session, and costs a story point AND 3 strain, and will have at least one red die. Maybe this is Tier 3 and the other actually "Improved". Then you could limit this one to one magic skill, which simplifies things. Maybe the one is not an improved over the other, but 2 individual things. I think it should also specific the caster decides the order the spells take effect, in case one affects the other.

Tracking who contributed what Talent is trivial, and would be easy to include. The Community Contributions section would start with a little text explaining it, that these are FFG Forum usernames, and point to this thread. (Hello people from the future, finding this thread because you were looking at the Community Contributions section!) The "Source" would just be the username.

6 hours ago, TheSapient said:

For Theurge Improved, I think it best just to stick with the CRB maneuver rules. Have you looked at the math for the difficulty? Maybe it is very difficult to pull off, and should be priced lower. It is already once per session, and costs a story point AND 3 strain, and will have at least one red die. Maybe this is Tier 3 and the other actually "Improved". Then you could limit this one to one magic skill, which simplifies things. Maybe the one is not an improved over the other, but 2 individual things. I think it should also specific the caster decides the order the spells take effect, in case one affects the other.

Tracking who contributed what Talent is trivial, and would be easy to include. The Community Contributions section would start with a little text explaining it, that these are FFG Forum usernames, and point to this thread. (Hello people from the future, finding this thread because you were looking at the Community Contributions section!) The "Source" would just be the username.

Good points.

Another pair of talents I'm considering.

Finesse

Tier : 1

Passive

You may use your Agility in place of your Brawn when making Melee (light) combat checks.

Tier 1 because changing characteristic away from Brawn is much less relevant in this system than it was for Star Wars characters who had specific talents tied to the different characteristic, and who were most likely wielding Lightsabers, which don't care about your Brawn so much.

Finesse (Improved)

Tier : 1

Passive

When using your Agility to make a Melee (light) combat check, add the Pierce quality (or increase the weapon's existing Pierce) with a rating equal to your Agility characteristic.

Considering requiring a maneuver before making the attack to add the Pierce. The only way alternative characteristics will be worthwhile for making melee attacks is if they have enough support to warrant changing away from the super-stat that Brawn is.

Bold Fighter

Tier: 1

Passive

You may use your Presence in place of your normal Characteristic when making combat checks.

Calculated Fighter

Tier: 1

Passive

You may use your Intellect in place of your normal Characteristic when making combat checks.

Focused Fighter

Tier: 1

Passive

You may use your Willpower in place of your normal Characteristic when making combat checks.

Sly Fighter

Tier: 1

Passive

You may use your Cunning in place of your normal Characteristic when making combat checks.

Honestly, the ability to take a useless fighter and turn them into a demigod with a single 5xp talent is a real bad idea. It needs to be tied to a specific combat ability. Agility on Melee Light seems fairly ok since the agile character will already be good at range, giving them options with small melee Weapons isn’t too unbalanced.

The problem arises with the other 4 characteristics, especially if it’s any combat skill. An Intellectual who can hit a bullseye at 500 yards with a peasants bow? A Socialite who swings a massive hammer? A Cunning thief with a Gatling gun? It just doesn’t work in my head.

The system is built around the fact you can offset a low characteristic by training hard to get higher skill ranks. Characteristic 5/Skill 1 is the same dice pool as Characteristic 1/Skill 5.

Now I do agree there are exceptions, mostly around small weapons in the hands of nobles, but to have a 5xp Talent for every characteristic and combat skill is over the top.

5 hours ago, yeti1069 said:

Another pair of talents I'm considering.

Finesse

Tier : 1

Passive

You may use your Agility in place of your Brawn when making Melee (light) combat checks.

Tier 1 because changing characteristic away from Brawn is much less relevant in this system than it was for Star Wars characters who had specific talents tied to the different characteristic, and who were most likely wielding Lightsabers, which don't care about your Brawn so much.

Finesse (Improved)

Tier : 1

Passive

When using your Agility to make a Melee (light) combat check, add the Pierce quality (or increase the weapon's existing Pierce) with a rating equal to your Agility characteristic.

Considering requiring a maneuver before making the attack to add the Pierce. The only way alternative characteristics will be worthwhile for making melee attacks is if they have enough support to warrant changing away from the super-stat that Brawn is.

I really like that Improved Finesse, I would definitely make it a manoeuvre though, it’s probably going to be adding Pierce 4.

Perhaps you could tie it to the Skill Rank instead though, that way it has a growth to it rather than especially a flat number that probably increases once. Otherwise it could be somehow be ranked.

So something like this:

Finesse

Tier : 1

Passive

You may use your Agility in place of your Brawn when making Melee (light) combat checks.

Finesse (Improved) (Ranked)

Tier : 2

Active

Before you make a Melee (light) combat check, make a Finesse Manoeuvre to add the Pierce quality (or increase the weapon's existing Pierce) with a rating equal to your ranks in Finesse (Improved).

An idea I had to continue the theme, it’s kind of a killing blow strike that a musketeer May make:

Finesse (Supreme)

Tier : 4

Active

When activating Finesse (Improved) you may flip a Story Point to instead add Vicious equal to ranks in Finesse (Improved).

2 hours ago, Richardbuxton said:

Honestly, the ability to take a useless fighter and turn them into a demigod with a single 5xp talent is a real bad idea. It needs to be tied to a specific combat ability.

it was ment as a joke, ok it did not come thru :-((

although i must say that i own a rpg that has such talents ... hmm but now in ernest:

Focused Fighter
Prerequisite: Willpower 3
Tier: 2
Passive
You may use your Willpower in place of your normal Characteristic,
when making combat checks for a specific combat skill (designate one when you take this Talent).
Restriction: You cannot take any other XXX Fighter Talent,
but you can take the same Talent (at a higher Tier) for another combat skill.

Bold Fighter
Prerequisite: Presence 3
Tier: 2
Passive
You may use your Presence in place of your normal Characteristic,
when making combat checks for a specific combat skill (designate one when you take this Talent).
Restriction: You cannot take any other XXX Fighter Talent,
but you can take the same Talent (at a higher Tier) for another combat skill.

Calculated Fighter
Prerequisite: Intellect 3
Tier: 2
Passive
You may use your Intellect in place of your normal Characteristic,
when making combat checks for a specific combat skill (designate one when you take this Talent).
Restriction: You cannot take any other XXX Fighter Talent,
but you can take the same Talent (at a higher Tier) for another combat skill.

Sly Fighter
Prerequisite: Cunning 3
Tier: 2
Passive
You may use your Cunning in place of your normal Characteristic,
when making combat checks for a specific combat skill (designate one when you take this Talent).
Restriction: You cannot take any other XXX Fighter Talent,
but you can take the same Talent (at a higher Tier) for another combat skill.

1 hour ago, Terefang said:

it was ment as a joke, ok it did not come thru :-((

although i must say that i own a rpg that has such talents ... hmm but now in ernest:

Focused Fighter
Prerequisite: Willpower 3
Tier: 2
Passive
You may use your Willpower in place of your normal Characteristic,
when making combat checks for a specific combat skill (designate one when you take this Talent).
Restriction: You cannot take any other XXX Fighter Talent,
but you can take the same Talent (at a higher Tier) for another combat skill.

Bold Fighter
Prerequisite: Presence 3
Tier: 2
Passive
You may use your Presence in place of your normal Characteristic,
when making combat checks for a specific combat skill (designate one when you take this Talent).
Restriction: You cannot take any other XXX Fighter Talent,
but you can take the same Talent (at a higher Tier) for another combat skill.

Calculated Fighter
Prerequisite: Intellect 3
Tier: 2
Passive
You may use your Intellect in place of your normal Characteristic,
when making combat checks for a specific combat skill (designate one when you take this Talent).
Restriction: You cannot take any other XXX Fighter Talent,
but you can take the same Talent (at a higher Tier) for another combat skill.

Sly Fighter
Prerequisite: Cunning 3
Tier: 2
Passive
You may use your Cunning in place of your normal Characteristic,
when making combat checks for a specific combat skill (designate one when you take this Talent).
Restriction: You cannot take any other XXX Fighter Talent,
but you can take the same Talent (at a higher Tier) for another combat skill.

Requiring a certain rank in a characteristic is an odd qualifier, as literally nothing else in the game works like that. The closest is Cumbersome/Unwieldy, but they merely penalize you, not ban you. You can maybe bump it to tier 3 as a trade off.

Thus, here is how I would write such a talent:

Adaptable Fighter

Tier 3. Activation: Passive. Ranked: No.

When purchasing this talent, the player may select one characteristic and one combat skill. When making skill checks with the chosen skill, they may use the chosen characteristic when building the dice pool.

1 hour ago, Swordbreaker said:

Requiring a certain rank in a characteristic is an odd qualifier, as literally nothing else in the game works like that. The closest is Cumbersome/Unwieldy, but they merely penalize you, not ban you. You can maybe bump it to tier 3 as a trade off.

Thus, here is how I would write such a talent:

Adaptable Fighter

Tier 3. Activation: Passive. Ranked: No.

When purchasing this talent, the player may select one characteristic and one combat skill. When making skill checks with the chosen skill, they may use the chosen characteristic when building the dice pool.

I understand the idea of Finesse. A quick and agile fighter can land a lot of hits.

I like your version best however I dislike the concept as a whole.

This is 4th edition D&D all over again where every class had a base attack that relied on it’s primary attribute.

Feels like the road to min/maxing to me.

My opinion. Feel free to ignore me ?

1 hour ago, ESP77 said:

I understand the idea of Finesse. A quick and agile fighter can land a lot of hits.

I like your version best however I dislike the concept as a whole.

This is 4th edition D&D all over again where every class had a base attack that relied on it’s primary attribute.

Feels like the road to min/maxing to me.

My opinion. Feel free to ignore me ?

I feel the same way. I can see this for a very specific campaign, but not as appropriate for a general ruleset.

I've been working on some talents for different specs from my Warcraft conversion, let me know what you think (The T3/T5 thing means that the talent can be taken multiple time at the respective tier):

Rogue specific talents:

ASSASSINATION specialization:

Master Poisoner (T1): May apply/re-apply poison to a weapon as a maneuver.

Nightstalker (T2): While undetected, may move up to twice the range that you normally would.

Toxic Blade (T3/T5): Whenever you hit with a blade that has poison of any type applied, deal +1 additional dmg, regardless of soak.

Elaborate Planning (T4): You may spend an entire turn planning your next attack/action, but you must be uninterrupted while doing so. If you’re left alone for the duration, add +2 SUCCESS to the result of your next action that you roll for.

Marked for Death (T5): Spend an entire turn planning your victim’s demise, must be uninterrupted. If successful, you or a designated character will deal twice the damage on the first successful attack.

SUBTLETY:

Ambush (T1/T3/T5): Whenever breaking out of Stealth/being undetected to attack/take action against a specific target , add +1 Boost dice to roll.

Soothing Darkness (T2/T4): Whenever fighting in darkness or the opponent’s vision is obscured, you count as having +1 soak.

Subterfuge (T3): Whenever detected, may spend a Story Point to insert a detail which would divert your opponent’s attention, and be safely back in Stealth without making any rolls.

Cheap Shot (T4): On a successful attack, you may decide not to deal damage and instead disorient the enemy, giving them +2 Setback dice to any rolls for rounds = your AGI.

Master of Shadows (T5): Once per round, may suffer 2 strain to decrease Diff of next Stealth/Skulduggery check by one.

OUTLAW

Iron Stomach (T1/T4): +1 restored wounds after natural rest or after any type of healing.

Grappling Hook (T2): May move up to twice the normal range as a single maneuver, but must spend a maneuver before that preparing the Grappling Hook itself.

Parley (T3): Count as having +2 SUCCESS to Negotiation results.

Prey on the Weak (T4): Any targets that are impaired, prone, blinded, etc. receive +2 damage from your attacks, or an added +1 SUCCESS to any non-combat results concerning those targets.

Adrenaline Rush (T5): Once per encounter. Any strain suffered is instead ignored. Lasts rounds = AGI.

1 hour ago, TheSapient said:

I feel the same way. I can see this for a very specific campaign, but not as appropriate for a general ruleset.

the original idea comes from "All for One" which is a Musketeer Setting.

First off, nice work and thank you for the exhaustive list of talents here!

I had a question on how you guys go about choosing tiers for each talent.

I just started going over your list compared to mine and found several were in drastically different tiers. I've only gone through Tier 1 so far. Was the criteria that if you found a single talent tree with a talent in a specific low tier, that became its tier? I ask because a couple of your tier 1 talents are tier 5 talents in Star Wars. Examples being Museum Worthy and Soothing Tone. Now, don't get me wrong. I absolutely think those shouldn't be Tier 5 talents for Genesys in your average setting/campaign, but dropping them down to a tier 1 seems a bit much. Specifically Museum Worthy could be pretty powerful.

Several other tier 1 talents in your list are most often tier 2 or 3 in various Star Wars talent trees (Bad Cop, Good Cop, Call 'Em, Familiar Sky, Signature Vehicle). One notable exception was Knowledge Specialization, which I think was tier 2 or 3 for most everything but the Scholar? Specifically, I think Call 'Em can be a potentially very powerful talent when used correctly.

44 minutes ago, OgreBane99 said:

First off, nice work and thank you for the exhaustive list of talents here!

I had a question on how you guys go about choosing tiers for each talent.

I just started going over your list compared to mine and found several were in drastically different tiers. I've only gone through Tier 1 so far. Was the criteria that if you found a single talent tree with a talent in a specific low tier, that became its tier? I ask because a couple of your tier 1 talents are tier 5 talents in Star Wars. Examples being Museum Worthy and Soothing Tone. Now, don't get me wrong. I absolutely think those shouldn't be Tier 5 talents for Genesys in your average setting/campaign, but dropping them down to a tier 1 seems a bit much. Specifically Museum Worthy could be pretty powerful.

Several other tier 1 talents in your list are most often tier 2 or 3 in various Star Wars talent trees (Bad Cop, Good Cop, Call 'Em, Familiar Sky, Signature Vehicle). One notable exception was Knowledge Specialization, which I think was tier 2 or 3 for most everything but the Scholar? Specifically, I think Call 'Em can be a potentially very powerful talent when used correctly.

We used the Genesys core book criteria. We ranked everything independently and debated when we disagreed. I personally didn’t pay much attention to where they were ranked in SW.

we also took input from the community.

Museum worthy is so niche and doesn’t do a whole lot so we went with one. It is really up to the GM how powerful it is.

One rank of soothing tone isn’t that powerful and if you’re willing to burn enough xp to make it so then you deserve to succeed.

As ESP77 says. We also rejected many that were already covered by Genesys, did not fit Genesys, or were Force specific. And we reworded or renamed more to make them a better fit.

But we do recognize that our conclusions may not be your conclusions, or may not be appropriate for your campaign. So we also provide the other file types. Move things around, Remove talents you don't like. Reword them. Whatever works for you. We want this to be something for tables to use, not something that dictates your games.

It is

17 hours ago, yeti1069 said:

Another pair of talents I'm considering.

Finesse

Tier : 1

Passive

You may use your Agility in place of your Brawn when making Melee (light) combat checks.

Tier 1 because changing characteristic away from Brawn is much less relevant in this system than it was for Star Wars characters who had specific talents tied to the different characteristic, and who were most likely wielding Lightsabers, which don't care about your Brawn so much.

Finesse (Improved)

Tier : 1

Passive

When using your Agility to make a Melee (light) combat check, add the Pierce quality (or increase the weapon's existing Pierce) with a rating equal to your Agility characteristic.

Considering requiring a maneuver before making the attack to add the Pierce. The only way alternative characteristics will be worthwhile for making melee attacks is if they have enough support to warrant changing away from the super-stat that Brawn is.

These are good, IMO. However, we already have a Finesse and Finesse Improved in the list.

3 hours ago, Tkalamov said:

I've been working on some talents for different specs from my Warcraft conversion, let me know what you think (The T3/T5 thing means that the talent can be taken multiple time at the respective tier):

Rogue specific talents:

ASSASSINATION specialization:

Master Poisoner (T1): May apply/re-apply poison to a weapon as a maneuver.

Nightstalker (T2): While undetected, may move up to twice the range that you normally would.

Toxic Blade (T3/T5): Whenever you hit with a blade that has poison of any type applied, deal +1 additional dmg, regardless of soak.

Elaborate Planning (T4): You may spend an entire turn planning your next attack/action, but you must be uninterrupted while doing so. If you’re left alone for the duration, add +2 SUCCESS to the result of your next action that you roll for.

Marked for Death (T5): Spend an entire turn planning your victim’s demise, must be uninterrupted. If successful, you or a designated character will deal twice the damage on the first successful attack.

SUBTLETY:

Ambush (T1/T3/T5): Whenever breaking out of Stealth/being undetected to attack/take action against a specific target , add +1 Boost dice to roll.

Soothing Darkness (T2/T4): Whenever fighting in darkness or the opponent’s vision is obscured, you count as having +1 soak.

Subterfuge (T3): Whenever detected, may spend a Story Point to insert a detail which would divert your opponent’s attention, and be safely back in Stealth without making any rolls.

Cheap Shot (T4): On a successful attack, you may decide not to deal damage and instead disorient the enemy, giving them +2 Setback dice to any rolls for rounds = your AGI.

Master of Shadows (T5): Once per round, may suffer 2 strain to decrease Diff of next Stealth/Skulduggery check by one.

OUTLAW

Iron Stomach (T1/T4): +1 restored wounds after natural rest or after any type of healing.

Grappling Hook (T2): May move up to twice the normal range as a single maneuver, but must spend a maneuver before that preparing the Grappling Hook itself.

Parley (T3): Count as having +2 SUCCESS to Negotiation results.

Prey on the Weak (T4): Any targets that are impaired, prone, blinded, etc. receive +2 damage from your attacks, or an added +1 SUCCESS to any non-combat results concerning those targets.

Adrenaline Rush (T5): Once per encounter. Any strain suffered is instead ignored. Lasts rounds = AGI.

There is a lot to unpack here, and it is a very cool collection. I'm going to address some things I think may be problematic.

Nightstalker: Doubling movement is a huge thing, and "undetected" is pretty vague. I'm not sure what this would mean in a lot of situations as well. If a character is successfully being stealthy, they can move twice as fast as someone who is flat out running?

Toxic Blade: I take this to mean that one damage that bypasses soak is applied. If that is correct, I think this is a nice, flavorful talent,

Elaborate Planning: needs more precise wording. Like "Take an Elaborate Planning action. If you take no other actions, maneuvers, or incendentals, and you are not the target of any other characters actions, before your next action, your first action on your next turn gains 2 SUCCESS.

Marked for Death: Also needs more precise wording.

I'll look at the rest later!

Would you be so kind as a to keep a changelog when you post new versions of the list? I'd like to know what's been added/changed in each version.

1 hour ago, FortyFaced said:

Would you be so kind as a to keep a changelog when you post new versions of the list? I'd like to know what's been added/changed in each version.

Absolutely! From V1.0 on. Will put up the log from from 1.0 to 1.1. in the opening post and also right below.

HERE YOU GO

Version 2 will be released with more significant additions and changes.

Genesys Talents Expanded is now seeking your homebrew talents.

Our goal is to create a useful collection of talents from which gaming groups can choose as many or as few as they like. However, we do wish this list to be internally consistent and cohesive. As such, please follow these guidelines:

1) Talents must be usable with the Genesys Core Rulebook, including any/all of the Alternate Rules.

2) Talents should assigned tiers in accordance with the Create A Talen t rules in the Core Rulebook.

3) Talents should be designed to fit within the talents already published in the Genesys Talents Expanded document.

4) Generalized talents are preferred when possible. See the "Natural", "Master", and "Out of the Box" talents as examples.

You can use this thread to hash out ideas, but please MESSAGE ME, TheSapient, with talents in the following format:

All-Terrain Driver
Tier: 1
Activation: Passive
Ranked: No
Do not suffer usual penalties for driving through different terrain when using Driving.

Your username in this thread will be cited with your talent, and a link to this thread will be included. All submitted talents are being reviewed by a team consisting of ESP77, Swordbreaker, Richardbuxton, and TheSapient, and I will get back to you as soon as we have a chance to consider your submission(s).

I'll post up all the more generic talents from my Dark Heresy hack, might be some useful stuff in there to add to your collection. Some of these might already have equivalents, I've read through your list but I skimmed some of it.

Any stuff in my hack is absolutely fine for anyone to use, for the record, but I figure these are the ones which are particularly generic and easy to fit into any game.

Tier 1 Talents

Tier 2 Talents

Tier 3 Talents

Tier 4 Talents

Signature Spell

Tier 2

Activation: Passive

Ranked: No

When purchased choose one spell the character is able to cast, whenever casting the Signature Spell reduce the difficulty by one

(from GenCon Module)

Signature Spell (Improved)

Tier 4

Activation: Passive

Ranked: No

Must have Signature Spell Talent to purchase this. Reduce the Strain cost to use Signature Spell by 1.

Signature Spell (Supreme)

Tier 5

Activation: Active

Ranked: No

Must have Signature Spell Talent to purchase this . When casting your Signature Spell you may reduce the Advantages required to activate any effect by 1 to a minimum of 1.

6 hours ago, TheSapient said:

Thanks for the input. Not gonna lie, a lot of the talents have been written out in a first draft kind of way, so I do need to polish out the wording as to make it understandable to people beside myself as well. Glad I'm on the right track, though, will see what I'll come up with for other classes.

3 minutes ago, Tkalamov said:

I'll be sending you some requests for revision for the ones we think are a good fit for this project.