I would think instead of a night's watch agenda why not this:

The Wall

5 gold.

No attachments. Immune to triggered effects. Cannot be discarded.

Instead of having a setup you may place the wall in play.

When you lose a challenge, discard 1 power from the wall.

You may not place or claim power on your house card.

When you gain control of a night's watch character place one power on the wall. When a night's watch character leaves play discard one power from the wall.

Take the Black

Attachment - condition.

0 gold.

Take control of attached character.

Attached character loses all icons, printed traits and gains the night's watch trait.

bloodycelt said:

Wow, power creep much?

Kennon said:

Seriously. Can you say "broken Targ/AHoTal-Daario deck"?

DB_Cooper said:

I'd say you wouldn't want that. I'm not even sure that the MB one is the best for a 2-claim. Remember that the primary idea behind these plots is to deny your opponent one of his/her three challenges. If you do it right, that's the benefit of this plot. Throwing 2-claim on all of them might make them over-powered (e.g. "Ha, ha. Not only are you short a challenge, but all of mine are 2-claim!")

bloodycelt said:

I like the idea of an Eyrie-like setup card, but this just seems like it would create decks that have 60 cheap night's watch characters in them, and your goal would be to play characters instead of playing the game...

jmccarthy said:

Yes, i agree. I like the "Eyrie like" setup. But the gametext seems to be more about just winning the game quickly by deploying massive forces of sworn brothers.

Also keep in mind, that people might need glasses to dechiffer the font size that would be needed for a gametext like this. I think db-cooper also had some other very good ideas , but the gametexts were simply too long for even two cards.

Oh, and i hope the nightwatch agenda won´t be reprinted. I never liked these totally icon-less nightwatch charachters which were totally rubbish for any deck except a nightwatch deck (Maester Aemon being the exception that proves the rule). Also there isn´t any nightwatch charachter in the LCG format (exception Maester Aemon) with no icons. So why should the agenda be reprinted?!

Old Ben said:

Well, as written, the card only claims power when you take control of a NW character. Playing or putting into play would not be considered the same thing as "gain control." So the idea as presented needs some work. But I like the idea of a NW deck driven by The Wall as a pre-setup location (you might even want a "No Attachments" on this, BTW).

I have a bunch of old cards I did randomly scattered through here.

http://s2.photobucket.com/albums/y7/PIGNRave/

And some random ones for the thread.

Marillion
-Neutral
-Character

0 cost

0 STR
I
P

Renown.

Marillion doesn't kneel to attack.
Marillion gains +1 STR for each Noble character you control.

Ice
-Lannister
-Weapon

1 Cost

Infamy

Attached character gains Deadly.
Response: After you win an intrigue challenge, discard 1 power from Ice to change the claim to that of a military challenge.

How about this:

Renly Baratheon, 3 cost, tricon, 4 STR, King

Renown.

If it is Summer, Renly does not kneel to attack.

If it is Winter, discard Renly.

jmccarthy said:

Good card, man...Even if a little bit overpowered (renown + 4 str + triIcons + 3 cost). The winter drawback is not so big to justify his power.

I think 3 strength it's enough (and maybe it'll stiil be powerful, but not broken).

Another thing: I would not use the King trait. Lord/Knight could be more appropriate than it.

Just ideas...

Maybe we'll put together our ideas and pull out a couple of good new Chapter Packs :-)

Here's my new creatures...

Jaqen H'ghar

Cost 4, Str 3, M-I-P

Renown.

Challenge: Discard one power from Jaqen H'ghar, from a character you control or from your house, to give him a Keyword of your choice until the end of the challenge (limit 1 per phase).

Any Phase: kneel 3 influence to take control of Jaqen H'ghar. Any player may trigger this ability.

Casterly rock

Location (Lannister)

Cost 5

Infamy

Characters with cost lower than the number of powers on Casterly rock cannot be played.

Aerys Targaryen

Cost 3, Str 2, M-P

Any phase: choose a character to get -2 str until the end of the phase, and it's killed if its strength is 0 (limit 1 per turn). Any player with the Targaryen house card may play this ability.

And for the Night's watch issue:

Samwell did it

Plot

Night's watch trait

1G 3I 1C

If you have one or more Night's watch plots in your used pile, after you win a miltiary or power challenge against a player who controls at least one Others character and you have at least 1 night's watch partecipating character, claim 3 power for your house.

DB_Cooper said:

Whoa! Super NPE. I would seriously quit if that ever saw a card like that. Not that I ever get to play anyway, but if I did....

DB_Cooper said:

My goal was to have him follow along with Robert and Stannis as kings for Baratheon. I thought it a bit lame that Renly got the shaft in 5KE, and deserved a King version as well. I was thinking of making him overpowered along with the other kings and queens, but you're right, 4 STR is a bit much. Perhaps 2 STR, like Core Renly, would make him more balanced...

jmccarthy said:

Three Kings in one House would have been way too much. Seriously, 3 characters with 3-cost, 4-STR and Renown in one House is a lot, even if they don't do anything else. Particularly if you're going to throw a 3rd icon on it! Or perhaps he was originally slotted for an expansion that never came.

If your goal was to make him like Robert, Stannis and the other Kings from 5KE, you need an "if he's the only King in play" restriction. That's part of what offsets the other 3-cost, 4-STR Renown bicons. Plus, not kneeling to attack in any form on a character with 4-STR, 3-icons and Renown? Hard to justify the 3 cost on that.... Need to lower the STR, raise the cost, or both.

Ok an attempt to fix this:

The Wall

5 gold.

No attachments. Immune to triggered effects. Cannot be discarded.

Instead of having a setup you may place the wall in play.

When you lose an Int. challenge or a night's watch character is killed, discard 1 power from the wall.

You may not place or claim power on your house card.

When you play or gain control of a night's watch character place one power on the wall.

Take the Black

Attachment - condition.

0 gold.

Take control of attached character.

Attached character loses all icons, printed traits and gains the night's watch trait.

Yoren

3 G 2 STR MI

Night's Watch

Challenges: Kneel Yoren to choose a unique character. That character becomes a night's watch character loses all icons and you gain control of it until the next challenge.

Oh.. and reprint veteran builders.

Ktom, this does make it so infamy doesn't work right?

bloodycelt said:

If you cannot claim power for your House card, then yes, Infamy doesn't do anything. Of course, as you have written it, you will probably never win since the power on The Wall (a location) doesn't count toward victory.

Personally, bloodycelt, I think it's just a bad idea. You are setting up for a deck that is about shutting down the Challenge phase for everyone involved. You have made the power challenge all but meaningless (you'll never have power to take and you cannot take any from your opponent) and made the "cost" of losing intrigue and military high enough that preventing your opponent from initiating any challenges at all is the best strategy. Since you don't gain much of anything by winning challenges, your resources and cards are more likely to be put toward challenge denial than any challenges yourself. It looks like it would take most of the interaction out of the game. It just doesn't sound like much fun to play or play against.

And didn't we learn anything about how distasteful alternate win conditions are from Doomed?

Plus, I don't find it particularly flavorful that the Night's Watch wins the game when it gets big enough.

I don't know, my problem was always that Doomed was a loss mechanic. Not something we had ever had in AGOT before, and not something I was interested in seeing added. An alternate win mechanic (like getting the 5 Rings in L5R or the like) would have been fine, but I rather liked AGOT not having a way to eliminate players.

Displays of Might and Prowess

Plot

3G 3I 1C

Challenges: Military challenges count as Claim 0. All characters participating in Military challenges gain Renown.

Kennon said:

True, but consider the way it evolved into the "forced Doom" deck, essentially making it so that eliminating you was the way that I won.

I see the same sort of thing happening with this. By making it so that the way most of your power is gained comes by playing/taking control of traited characters, you change the basics of how power is gained and lost, totally changing the player's goals and the way both deck and game are played. That's a lot like what Doomed ended up doing, especially in the "force Doom" deck, whether that was the original point of the mechanic or not.

As long as they've created the precedent of triggered effects on plots, how about:

Titles and Honors

Plot

3/3/1

Response: After you win a challenge, choose a participating character. That character gains the Lord trait until the end of the phase.

Challenge: Lord characters you control each claim 1 power. Use this ability only if you have won 3 challenges this phase. (Limit 1 per phase.)

I think that we need more cards which reward winning challenges and have an effect in the long run. So here we go: .

Bounty of the realm

attachment / 2 gold / unique

Immune to events.

Everytime you win an intrigue challenge stack the top card of your opponents deck beneath this card.

If there are 5 or more cards stacked on bounty of the realm discard it (cannot be saved) and dicard your hand, than

put the top 5 cards of your deck into your hand.

No prisoners

attachment / 2 gold / unique

Immune to events.

Everytime you win a military challenge stack the top card of your opponents deck beneath this card.

Marshalling: If there are 5 or more cards stacked on No prisoners discard it and discard all charchters from play (cannot be saved).

An empty throne

attachment / 2 gold / unique

Immune to events.

Everytime you win a power challenge stack the top card of your opponents deck beneath this card.

If there are 5 or more cards stacked on an empty throne discard it (cannot be saved) and claim 3 power for your house.

I was thinking a long time about some good defending character and I came with:

Deadly Defenter

3 cost, unique, six House Affiliance

tricon, 2 STR

While Deadly Defender is defending, add 2 Deadly keywords to your total count for the duration of the challange.

About the lack of plots in LCG I have one idea.

4/4/1

When revealed name two challange types. During the challange phase this round each player may initiate another chalange of the named type if he does not initiate the other named challange this round.

OK, so I haven't bothered to really look at anything so oops if someone posted a similar idea.

how about a neutral character. 2 gold, 2 str, mil pow, At the beginning of the dominance phase, if CARD is in your dead or discard pile, and you won a military challenge this round, put CARD into play knelt.

I dig it. Some kind of Brotherhood perhaps?

KTom, you are right... the card is still problematic.

OTOH, for a night's watch deck... unlike a house they don't care about the game of thrones... nor would attacking them gain a house anything towards that race. That is an inherent problem with having a night's watch theme deck, it's inherently un nedly. So you can either keep them as a sub theme of a few houses (Bara/Lanni) which is sort of what FFG is currently doing.

But an actual night's watch deck's goal is to get brothers to the wall, they're under manned, and overwhelmed. But you're right... the challenges should still matter.