I see no point to debating this any further, since you're calling RAW erroneous. I do grant that your interpretation is less problematic in that it does prevent the edge case scenario of a 5+ tray front rank. But in my opinion the rule is not at all "self evident" and needs further clarification.

I don't disagree at all. Either way it's meant to be, should be clarified.

We only have two heroes per faction at the moment.

Anyone got a scan of the Maro rules insert, thought it explicitly said cannot increase threat. I'd take it further if that is the case, to it cannot 'restore' threat if you are down to a single block, in other words only build back rank in your current unit arrangement.

2 hours ago, Darthain said:

Anyone got a scan of the Maro rules insert, thought it explicitly said cannot increase threat. I'd take it further if that is the case, to it cannot 'restore' threat if you are down to a single block, in other words only build back rank in your current unit arrangement.

It doesn't say anything like that. It only contains the "Adding Trays" rules, exactly the same as in the FAQ.

24 minutes ago, Uthoroc said:

It doesn't say anything like that. It only contains the "Adding Trays" rules, exactly the same as in the FAQ.

Gotcha, I see the issue then. Thats a RAI v RAW type mismemory I think.

On 8/27/2017 at 7:01 AM, Uthoroc said:

Please point me to the place where it says I cannot place it on the side of the unit (meant quite sincerely)! Or a statement that it can't add threat!

My apologies i made an assumption that game players know what a rules exception based game is.

Rules exception based games nearly never include what you can't do. Because the list could be very long. You cant write a rules set listing all the things you can't do.

So you will not find this sentence any where. Rules exception games have the general rules of the game.

Then the individual units or upgrade cards can bend or break the rules in certain situations. The cards and units tell you when and how they break/bend the rules. They tell you what you can do .

Normally you must move the full distance of your move. If you dial a 3 straight move you must move 3 forward, you cannot stop at 2. Metered March allows you to bend that rule and stop marching any where along its length.

Uthoroc you need to change the way read and look at the rules. Stop looking for more meaning than the literal translation of what you can do.

1 hour ago, Asmo said:

Rules exception based games nearly never include what you can't do.

"• If the unit has four full ranks of trays, a new tray cannot be added to that unit."

Huh.

I said nearly never.

Not never.

It's becoming clearer to me why some people just don't get it...

5 minutes ago, Asmo said:

I said nearly never.

Not never.

It's becoming clearer to me why some people just don't get it...

Just a little joke, my droid friend.

That was as funny as a fart in an elevator.

Got up on the wrong side of the bed? Take it easy, it's just a game!

From the adding trays wording (I've added the emphasis):

If the back rank of the unit is a full rank , and if the unit has fewer than four ranks, the added tray can be connected to the unit’s back edge, creating a new back rank for that unit

If when you only have a single rank you could continue to add extra trays to the side (thus increasing threat indefinitely) there would be no need for the term "Full Rank" in the adding trays rule as the rank would never be full.

Example:
Say you are down to a single base of Reanimates and you then add trays. The number of trays you can add to the side of the remaining tray is determined by what size a "Full Rank" is for that unit.

If originally bought as a 2x1 or 2x2 unit then a full rank is 2 trays and you can only add one tray to the side with others being added behind.

If originally bought as a 3x2 or 3x3 unit then a full rank is 3 trays and you can add two trays to the side with others being added behind.

If originally bought as a 4x3 unit then a full rank is 4 trays and you can add three trays to the side with others being added behind.

5 minutes ago, stet2 said:

From the adding trays wording (I've added the emphasis):

If the back rank of the unit is a full rank , and if the unit has fewer than four ranks, the added tray can be connected to the unit’s back edge, creating a new back rank for that unit

If when you only have a single rank you could continue to add extra trays to the side (thus increasing threat indefinitely) there would be no need for the term "Full Rank" in the adding trays rule as the rank would never be full.

This is also how I think it should work, and hopefully FFG will eventually make a statement to this effect. Unfortunately it's still pretty vague for now, because the rules define a "full rank" as having the same number of trays as the front rank. Also apparently the front rank can never be considered either full or partial? Shrug.

"66 Ranks

Each horizontal row of trays running the width of a unit is one rank of that unit.

66.1 A unit’s front row of trays is that unit’s front rank, and a unit’s back row of trays is that unit’s back rank.

• When a unit is made up of a single rank, that rank is both the front and back rank.

66.2 A full rank is any rank that contains as many trays as the front rank for the unit.

66.3 A rank is partial if it contains at least one tray, but fewer trays than the front rank of the unit.

66.4 A unit’s front rank is not full or partial.

66.5 When determining the number of ranks of a unit, and if those ranks are full or partial, only trays are relevant; the number of figures remaining in a tray is irrelevant."

If you are down to one rank then that rank is the front and the back rank. When looking at it as the back rank, it has as many trays as the front rank (since those ranks are one and the same). By definition, it is then a full rank. Since the back rank is full, your tray placement would be to create a new rank.

Makes sense to me, good call @rowdyoctopus . The lesson here seems to be, use Maro's ability before your front rank gets whittled down!

Thanks for doing the legwork @rowdyoctopus . That kills this discussion right dead.

Okay, we're going in circles now. May I quote myself, from the very first post in this thread:

Quote

3. If the unit has only 1 rank, that rank is both the front rank and the back rank, and that back rank is full because its got the same number of trays as the front rank (see rules 66.1 to 66.4).

I think it's time to leave this be. Hoping for a clarification from FFG for my peace of mind. Thanks everybody for the discussion!

On ‎8‎/‎29‎/‎2017 at 11:11 PM, Asmo said:

That was as funny as a fart in an elevator.

Perspective... The farter may find it funny, the fartee may not...

On ‎8‎/‎30‎/‎2017 at 0:53 PM, stet2 said:

From the adding trays wording (I've added the emphasis):

If the back rank of the unit is a full rank , and if the unit has fewer than four ranks, the added tray can be connected to the unit’s back edge, creating a new back rank for that unit

If when you only have a single rank you could continue to add extra trays to the side (thus increasing threat indefinitely) there would be no need for the term "Full Rank" in the adding trays rule as the rank would never be full.

Example:
Say you are down to a single base of Reanimates and you then add trays. The number of trays you can add to the side of the remaining tray is determined by what size a "Full Rank" is for that unit.

If originally bought as a 2x1 or 2x2 unit then a full rank is 2 trays and you can only add one tray to the side with others being added behind.

If originally bought as a 3x2 or 3x3 unit then a full rank is 3 trays and you can add two trays to the side with others being added behind.

If originally bought as a 4x3 unit then a full rank is 4 trays and you can add three trays to the side with others being added behind.

So the statement you can't add threat, but you can restore threat is kind of your thought then on this?

On ‎8‎/‎30‎/‎2017 at 1:22 PM, rowdyoctopus said:

"66 Ranks

Each horizontal row of trays running the width of a unit is one rank of that unit.

66.1 A unit’s front row of trays is that unit’s front rank, and a unit’s back row of trays is that unit’s back rank.

• When a unit is made up of a single rank, that rank is both the front and back rank.

66.2 A full rank is any rank that contains as many trays as the front rank for the unit.

66.3 A rank is partial if it contains at least one tray, but fewer trays than the front rank of the unit.

66.4 A unit’s front rank is not full or partial.

66.5 When determining the number of ranks of a unit, and if those ranks are full or partial, only trays are relevant; the number of figures remaining in a tray is irrelevant."

If you are down to one rank then that rank is the front and the back rank. When looking at it as the back rank, it has as many trays as the front rank (since those ranks are one and the same). By definition, it is then a full rank. Since the back rank is full, your tray placement would be to create a new rank.

Wrench... this makes sense.

On 30/08/2017 at 7:22 PM, rowdyoctopus said:

"66 Ranks

Each horizontal row of trays running the width of a unit is one rank of that unit.

66.1 A unit’s front row of trays is that unit’s front rank, and a unit’s back row of trays is that unit’s back rank.

• When a unit is made up of a single rank, that rank is both the front and back rank.

66.2 A full rank is any rank that contains as many trays as the front rank for the unit.

66.3 A rank is partial if it contains at least one tray, but fewer trays than the front rank of the unit.

66.4 A unit’s front rank is not full or partial.

66.5 When determining the number of ranks of a unit, and if those ranks are full or partial, only trays are relevant; the number of figures remaining in a tray is irrelevant."

If you are down to one rank then that rank is the front and the back rank. When looking at it as the back rank, it has as many trays as the front rank (since those ranks are one and the same). By definition, it is then a full rank. Since the back rank is full, your tray placement would be to create a new rank.

You contradict yourself at the very end. You say:

"When looking at it as the back rank, it has as many trays as the front rank (since those ranks are one and the same). By definition, it is then a full rank."

However rule 66.4 you quoted above states that "a unit's front rank is not full or partial." So it is unambiguously not full, and therefore I see no reason you can't add to the front rank when it's the only one left. Though I hope they rule you can never had more threat than you started the game with.

No i don't believe you can add threat at all.

Once you are down to your front rank (whether that be 4, 3, 2 or 1 trays), you are only allowed to add trays behind that rank.

So once your initial death star of 12 trays (4x3) is reduced to 2 trays (2x1) you can add behind making it 2x2 or 2x3 or even 2x4. But it will never gain threat again.

You should have sacrificed more elves to waiqar for more green runes and more trays earlier.

On 9/2/2017 at 9:31 AM, KrisPWales said:

You contradict yourself at the very end. You say:

"When looking at it as the back rank, it has as many trays as the front rank (since those ranks are one and the same). By definition, it is then a full rank."

However rule 66.4 you quoted above states that "a unit's front rank is not full or partial." So it is unambiguously not full, and therefore I see no reason you can't add to the front rank when it's the only one left. Though I hope they rule you can never had more threat than you started the game with.

I don't contradict myself. The rank is both front and back. If you are looking at a unit that only has 1 rank and you ask, "is the back rank of this unit full?", the answer is unequivocally yes. A single rank unit is neither full nor partial, and is simultaneously also full. It depends on the game effect in question and what is needed of the rank at the time.

On 9/2/2017 at 8:31 AM, KrisPWales said:

66.4 A unit’s front rank is not full or partial.

2 hours ago, DekoPuma said:

Is the back rank of a single rank unit full?

Yes.