3 hours ago, Tlfj200 said:

I mean, you know I don't think 5striker +1 is too unfair, but I'm not FFG.

I'm pretty sure 40-point t65s are fine, but I dont get to make the points

a game where 5 x wings is the strongest list isn't the worst thing in the world, though I'm kind of liking the 'don't count to 200' constraint of the 41pt bracket. Figuring out what that 5th ship is or how to squeeze leia in is more interesting then copy pasta.

1 hour ago, gennataos said:

I keep hearing podcasts ask, "Why aren't people playing the TIE swarm? It's good" I think people are. List Fortress is has a fair amount of local events where the TIE swarm shows up. They're not usually doing great, but they're there. I'm also not sure who the people are. I haven't seen a podcaster play it yet, so I'm guessing other people aren't playing it for the same reasons...?

pre points adjustment (not counting phx, because i can't be arsed), Tie swarm showed up 20 times, for reference, 1374 lists were played, or 561 imperial lists. this is for major events (nationals, system opens). 3 made cut in nationals (2 in spanish, 1 at french). That'a 3.5% of imperial lists or 1.4% overall.

Regardless of local metas, they weren't being played in large events and we don't have any data yet to say otherwise. Also the xwing meta is conservative. If it makes some good showings at regionals there will be an uptick in play. No one wants to be the one to spend the time to figure out if it's good, they want someone else to do it for them.

12 minutes ago, jagsba said:

No one wants to be the one to spend the time to figure out if it's good

Its good.

1 hour ago, jagsba said:

a game where 5 x wings is the strongest list isn't the worst thing in the world, though I'm kind of liking the 'don't count to 200' constraint of the 41pt bracket. Figuring out what that 5th ship is or how to squeeze leia in is more interesting then copy pasta.

pre points adjustment (not counting phx, because i can't be arsed), Tie swarm showed up 20 times, for reference, 1374 lists were played, or 561 imperial lists. this is for major events (nationals, system opens). 3 made cut in nationals (2 in spanish, 1 at french). That'a 3.5% of imperial lists or 1.4% overall.

Regardless of local metas, they weren't being played in large events and we don't have any data yet to say otherwise. Also the xwing meta is conservative. If it makes some good showings at regionals there will be an uptick in play. No one wants to be the one to spend the time to figure out if it's good, they want someone else to do it for them.

Really, I wasn’t looking for an explanation. I was just taking a shot at anyone who says people aren’t playing TIE swarms, while they’re included in that group of people.

59 minutes ago, Boom Owl said:

Its good.

I don't believe you?

Like I'm OK with "It could be good" because I'm not sure you're wrong either but the evidence of it actually really being good does not seem to be forthcoming in a way that elevates it to data as opposed to anecdotes and head sims

2 hours ago, Jeff Wilder said:

Uh, they do have an extra attack die ... and that's more valuable than 2-3 points.

Alpha 32, Sabre 34.

He may be saying that the Acad is bad too though.

TIEs should generally be cheaper - they appear to be paying the "Howl and iden" tax.

So howl and Iden should just cost more, and the others cost less. Same inferno squad costs the same, but the pieces to get there shifted.

2 minutes ago, Tlfj200 said:

TIEs should generally be cheaper - they appear to be paying the "Howl and iden" tax.

So howl and Iden should just cost more, and the others cost less. Same inferno squad costs the same, but the pieces to get there shifted.

3 red dice (Hask) and potent abilities (Meeko and Marana). Inferno Squad is where they should be.

Just now, Hiemfire said:

3 red dice (Hask) and potent abilities (Meeko and Marana). Inferno Squad is where they should be.

I meant tweak the points so you can build the same TIE swarm, but stuff is changed.

Like, an academy is basically a joke ship without howl, etc.

5 hours ago, Jeff Wilder said:

Uh, they do have an extra attack die ... and that's more valuable than 2-3 points.

Alpha 32, Sabre 34.

Let me break the game!

2 hours ago, Kaptin Krunch said:

He may be saying that the Acad is bad too though.

I mean one single academy tie is pretty Eh. That’s why there so cheap, right? There supposed to fly using the buddy system.

4 hours ago, Boom Owl said:

Its good.

3 hours ago, Makaze said:

I don't believe you?

Like I'm OK with "It could be good" because I'm not sure you're wrong either but the evidence of it actually really being good does not seem to be forthcoming in a way that elevates it to data as opposed to anecdotes and head sims

If it's good and nobody plays it, is it good?

2 hours ago, Tlfj200 said:

TIEs should generally be cheaper - they appear to be paying the "Howl and iden" tax.

So howl and Iden should just cost more, and the others cost less. Same inferno squad costs the same, but the pieces to get there shifted.

I've been thinking about this. Are iden and howl too cheap? Would you slot them into a list with just two or three tie fighters?

21 minutes ago, jagsba said:

If it's good and nobody plays it, is it good?

I've been thinking about this. Are iden and howl too cheap? Would you slot them into a list with just two or three tie fighters?

Contemplated playing Howl with Swarm Tactics, Iden, and Wampa as a threesome alongside other stuff in Hyperspace but that seems bad right?

Also, heres another one I looked at:

"Pure Sabacc" (44)
Crack Shot (1)
Seismic Charges (3)
Shield Upgrade (6)

Ship total: 54 Half Points: 27 Threshold: 3

"Countdown" (44)
Crack Shot (1)
Seismic Charges (3)
Hull Upgrade (5)

Ship total: 53 Half Points: 27 Threshold: 3

Gideon Hask (30)
Crack Shot (1)

Ship total: 31 Half Points: 16 Threshold: 2

Del Meeko (30)
Crack Shot (1)

Ship total: 31 Half Points: 16 Threshold: 2

Seyn Marana (30)
Marksmanship (1)

Ship total: 31 Half Points: 16 Threshold: 2

1 hour ago, jagsba said:

If it's good and nobody plays it, is it good?

I don't know, I'm not sure anyone else actually knows either. But I'm willing to be convinced by people playing it

1 hour ago, Makaze said:

I don't know, I'm not sure anyone else actually knows either. But I'm willing to be convinced by people playing it

And this mentality is part of the problem of a stale meta.

I thought it was very interesting when @Brunas said something along the lines of "I don't want to play right now because the meta isn't solved and nobody knows what's good" in one of the recent episodes.

Different fun types I guess, but figuring out what works or making something work is fun to me.

30 minutes ago, GreenDragoon said:

And this mentality is part of the problem of a stale meta.

I thought it was very interesting when @Brunas said something along the lines of "I don't want to play right now because the meta isn't solved and nobody knows what's good" in one of the recent episodes.

Different fun types I guess, but figuring out what works or making something work is fun to me.

There are actually a few different possible archetypes that I am surprised haven't shown up yet.

49 minutes ago, Scott Pilgrim2 said:

There are actually a few different possible archetypes that I am surprised haven't shown up yet.

It looks like you have to be the change you want to see.

I am (obnoxiously, I know) loud about the 5 Awings, but 25 picture heavy battlereports later I see the list showing up on listfortress in some more places. It seems to work, but also takes a lot of work.

Just now, GreenDragoon said:

It looks like you have to be the change you want to see.

I am (obnoxiously, I know) loud about the 5 Awings, but 25 picture heavy battlereports later I see the list showing up on listfortress in some more places. It seems to work, but also takes a lot of work.

I am. This weekend at Krayt Cup is going to be hilarious.

8 hours ago, FlyingAnchors said:

I mean one single academy tie is pretty Eh. That’s why there so cheap, right? There supposed to fly using the buddy system.

I’m just saying we see Z-95s played and used as filler, but a single academy is almost always wrong.

Another note- I don't think TIE Swarm is that great, especially with the data we have.

Pre points, it had a conversion rate on-par with Wedge, or around half of Boba And Pals.

Do we have HS data?

Tie swarms are so luck reliants that usually games tend to be overly frustrating to one of the players, most often than not to the one flying the TIEs

3 minutes ago, Sunitsa said:

Tie swarms are so luck reliants that usually games tend to be overly frustrating to one of the players, most often than not to the one flying the TIEs

I mess up too much with TIE swarms and end up relying on lucky green dice... which are rarely lucky.

5 minutes ago, LagJanson said:

I mess up too much with TIE swarms and end up relying on lucky green dice... which are rarely lucky.

It’s also really boring.

only rebel players and TIE swarms came to stay in formation. The rest of us enjoy freedom.

10 minutes ago, Tlfj200 said:

The rest of us enjoy freedom.

If your gonna go through the effort of running Imperials against all the I5+ stuff you might as well enjoy yourself and run some named Strikers.

Random Imperial List #92:

All of it is considerably more effort with significantly less bid than Poe + 3 but still decent.

14 minutes ago, Tlfj200 said:

only rebel players and TIE swarms came to stay in formation. The rest of us enjoy freedom.

Is it bad that I fly neither my Rebel squadrons or my TIE swarms in boxes or pinwheels? Am I doing it wrong and will have to renounce my Rebelship?

7 minutes ago, LagJanson said:

Is it bad that I fly neither my Rebel squadrons or my TIE swarms in boxes or pinwheels? Am I doing it wrong and will have to renounce my Rebelship?

Whats it gonna take for Rebel players to start using Biggs in 3-4 ship lists?

Leia levels of price decrease into the 41 pt range?