Yeah this whole push is harmful.

Also not anywhere close to practiced defense against this archetype.

This is hilarious. Like, a genuine w t f moment for pretty much every post of you, all over the place. We live in very different realities, and you really are confusing me.

I feel like I'm having a stroke reading this thread right now

Are you ok @Blail Blerg?

The last few posts across several threads don't sound ok.

28 minutes ago, Kieransi said:

I feel like I'm having a stroke reading this thread right now

S T R O N K T E A M

13 minutes ago, Flurpy said:

Are you ok @Blail Blerg?

The last few posts across several threads don't sound ok.

Yeah, this whole hyperspace only business is getting way too hype-y for my blood. Also, I'm tired of the lack of strategy content over archetype whine and Xwing politics.

50 minutes ago, Blail Blerg said:

Yeah, this whole hyperspace only business is getting way too hype-y for my blood. Also, I'm tired of the lack of strategy content over archetype whine and Xwing politics.

Well to quote a random Hockey player "is only game, why u heff to be mad".

I only use this forum to sithpost during downtime at work. Taking it seriously is not a smart move.

9 minutes ago, Flurpy said:

Well to quote a random Hockey player "is only game, why u heff to be mad".

I only use this forum to sithpost during downtime at work. Taking it seriously is not a smart move.

are you kidding? how are you supposed to play hockey without being mad?

I hope and expect that CoronaPlagueis will have burnt itself out by October.

Unfortunately, I don't see any way for Adepticon to be a smart move in 2 weeks.

3 hours ago, Blail Blerg said:

Yeah, this whole hyperspace only business is getting way too hype-y for my blood. Also, I'm tired of the lack of strategy content over archetype whine and Xwing politics.

Worlds and Primes should be hyperspace only.

3 hours ago, Blail Blerg said:

are you kidding? how are you supposed to play hockey without being mad?

Being pissed off clouds judgement in anything... Though, if you like seeing the guys drop the gloves, I suppose being mad is a feature.

2 hours ago, gamblertuba said:

Unfortunately, I don't see any way for Adepticon to be a smart move in 2 weeks.

Rumors are it won't be a choice to attend much longer...

3 minutes ago, LagJanson said:

Rumors are it won't be a choice to attend much longer...

Not surprised. Probably the right choice?.?... Just glad I don't have to make that call. Who wants to run a Vassal tournament that weekend?

16 minutes ago, LagJanson said:

Rumors are it won't be a choice to attend much longer...

I'm pretty conflicted about it. I was planning on kind of shutting it down for a while after Adepticon, anyway, so I guess I would just shut it down earlier.

6 hours ago, Hoarder of Garlic Bread said:

If Coronavirus remains a problem nearing October--be it directly or in responses to it--World's should be cancelled. It would be merely a US invitation only event.

Hold up. I want to go back to this. Is this a real post or a joke? Because if it’s real, it’s arguably the dumbest thing I’ve read on this forum. And this forum says A LOT of dumb stuff.

Of course folks shouldn't be holding large events and conventions right now.

With regards to Worlds specifically, the timeline is pretty distant, but if it were happening in April, yeah, 100% cancel.

8 minutes ago, theBitterFig said:

Of course folks shouldn't be holding large events and conventions right now.

With regards to Worlds specifically, the timeline is pretty distant, but if it were happening in April, yeah, 100% cancel.

Right, but the reason for canceling isn’t that it would be a US only event. It’s because there is a pandemic and people’s lives will be affected. Not because some people can’t come so it’s not fair...

6 hours ago, Hoarder of Garlic Bread said:

If Coronavirus remains a problem nearing October--be it directly or in responses to it--World's should be cancelled. It would be merely a US invitation only event.

To dial it back somewhat - the reason you cancel is because of the virus, not because it becomes a US-only event. I don't want to harp on the last part, but even then, it barely becomes even that (due to lack of attendance).

But you cancel because of overall safety, not because of some grand idea of universal tournament.

5 hours ago, Blail Blerg said:

Yeah, this whole hyperspace only business is getting way too hype-y for my blood. Also, I'm tired of the lack of strategy content over archetype whine and Xwing politics.

Strategies, i.e. turn 0 engages, range control, etc, are not only difficult to discuss, but are situational and can be vulnerable to counter strategies. There's also broadly something to be said for one list having to put together a 10 step flowchart of "if then" statements and the other list just operating on the "don't f*** up" strategy that perhaps the disparity in power in said lists is unacceptably high. While I'm all for finding gameplay over listbuilding or nerf solutions, at some point we have to be realistic that one side just has an unreasonable edge.

1 hour ago, MasterShake2 said:

Strategies, i.e. turn 0 engages, range control, etc, are not only difficult to discuss, but are situational and can be vulnerable to counter strategies. There's also broadly something to be said for one list having to put together a 10 step flowchart of "if then" statements and the other list just operating on the "don't f*** up" strategy that perhaps the disparity in power in said lists is unacceptably high. While I'm all for finding gameplay over listbuilding or nerf solutions, at some point we have to be realistic that one side just has an unreasonable edge.

I think its 100% possible though difficult to discuss tactics with words and pictures. Like anything worth talking about. Takes time though and some amount of trust that the people participating can appreciate nuance, imperfect context, and the value of thinking about scenarios or board states that are points in time and intentionally simplified to get at a key concept. I do that all the time with many of the players in this thread, sometimes here usually elsewhere without List Building Thonkers getting in the way. Often time those discussions are based on actual test games and scenario play throughs followed by shockingly productive use of words.

Its possible to participate in those discussions without turning it into list building 101 every time. Alot of players just throw their hands up and shout “thats theoretical...just tell me what List beats these other lists and spoon feed me how to play it”. Thats usually the constraint. Large subset of players who only view the game through the lense of counter tech and list building rather than in game counter strategy. I don't mind list building which can be fun but I am substantially more interested in archetype strategy.

Having the discussions is usually doable. Getting open minded people to participate in those conversations meaningfully without it devolving into card tech is usually the challenge.

Alot of people also dont really contribute much to begin with and just ask questions which is fine but only useful if the questions go beyond turn 0 strategy and list building.

This is also why worlds and primes should be hyperspace only. The general strategy has alot less to do with list building in hyper. In extended I just take the highest initiative list ( essentially two options total ) that is the most mobile effective jouster and I am pretty much good to go.

16 minutes ago, Boom Owl said:

Takes time though and some amount of trust that the people participating can appreciate nuance, imperfect context, and the value of thinking about scenarios or board states that are points in time and intentionally simplified to get at a key concept.

"But have you tried this list here instead?!?! I'm super successful locally with it, so the problem is solved!!1!!"

Question: Why isn't Falcon Leia seeing more use in HS?

I ran Leia 3X in a store kit tournament about a month ago she did good work. She's a solid ship - it's a double modded, 3 dice, boosting turret at I5 that can tank a decent amount of fire and then kite and has a pilot ability that is better than it seems on paper. She's a pretty hard counter to Fangs, which are all over the place right now and has the speed/arc coverage to keep Boba fairly honest.

Is nobody flying Rebels? Are Rebel players getting stuck trying to run architect builds? She's not broken, but she's solidly A-tier without any upgrades...

1 minute ago, Transmogrifier said:

Question: Why isn't Falcon Leia seeing more use in HS?

Because we as community are collectively stuck in list building as primary strategy.

You can ask that question about a LOT of pilots. They are often very close, and almost any reasonable list can do well. That is precisely the reason why HS is the better format.

But we need to solve everything by list building, and as a result are very conservative. Look how hard v1s or droids had and still have it to break through into the meta.

The usual explanation is points drop. But it's a very simple argument against that: any old list X with a bid of A points, or optional upgrades of B points. If the new list Y is as cheap as X+A or X+B then the points change is a bad argument. Or rather, we as community are irrational to jump from playability to meta staple on such a ship.

It's a very repetitive discussion, anyway.

17 minutes ago, Transmogrifier said:

Question: Why isn't Falcon Leia seeing more use in HS?

I ran Leia 3X in a store kit tournament about a month ago she did good work. She's a solid ship - it's a double modded, 3 dice, boosting turret at I5 that can tank a decent amount of fire and then kite and has a pilot ability that is better than it seems on paper. She's a pretty hard counter to Fangs, which are all over the place right now and has the speed/arc coverage to keep Boba fairly honest.

Is nobody flying Rebels? Are Rebel players getting stuck trying to run architect builds? She's not broken, but she's solidly A-tier without any upgrades...

I took the same list to a local tournament and did middling with it.

Difference being my tactics with large ships like the Falcon are quite flawed. I left Leia hanging when I should have run, run would I should have fought. My take away was similar, Leia is good, but you need to know what you're doing. That last bit generally eliminates a lot of lists from the generally accepted pool of "good" lists.

9 minutes ago, GreenDragoon said:

Because we as community are collectively stuck in list building as primary strategy.

You can ask that question about a LOT of pilots. They are often very close, and almost any reasonable list can do well. That is precisely the reason why HS is the better format.

But we need to solve everything by list building, and as a result are very conservative. Look how hard v1s or droids had and still have it to break through into the meta.

The usual explanation is points drop. But it's a very simple argument against that: any old list X with a bid of A points, or optional upgrades of B points. If the new list Y is as cheap as X+A or X+B then the points change is a bad argument. Or rather, we as community are irrational to jump from playability to meta staple on such a ship.

It's a very repetitive discussion, anyway.

I guess my surprise is that she's a splashy new pilot with purple on her card but there are barely any documented attempts to try and make her work. Meanwhile, everyone is trying to make double tapping B-Wings happen (11 squads in MetaWing for Falcon Leia, 43 Squads for Stabilized S-Foils).

34 minutes ago, Transmogrifier said:

I guess my surprise is that she's a splashy new pilot with purple on her card but there are barely any documented attempts to try and make her work. Meanwhile, everyone is trying to make double tapping B-Wings happen (11 squads in MetaWing for Falcon Leia, 43 Squads for Stabilized S-Foils).

Ten + Autoblaster and S-Foil is 53pts and shoots like 2 ships (depending on bullseye, 2 3x dice ships). Comparatively pretty easy to slot in especially since Rebels have been 4-ships foe most of 2.0.