2 minutes ago, Brunas said:

Tournaments are mostly moving to graduated cuts, so this would make little difference.

Also, it would just translate into a different crusade on how MoV is stupid, we shouldn't use it, and literally just flipping coins to see who makes cut would be a better tiebreaker.

Okay, was just throwing it out there as a possibility.

29 minutes ago, tampermagnitude said:

I'm not building a list to specifically counter one overpowered list that then loses to everything else i'm afraid, and I think a lot of that list is rather hopeful theories. The point is Boba is so OP that he's warping the whole meta.

Might I ask, do you play competitively? Or is your concern just locally he isn't fun to play against in general? Because part of playing competitively, in any game, is having counters for some of the top performers, right? There's ALWAYS going to be something you must design for. And perhaps some experimentation, and possibly even mastery of a list constructed with the above options might even result in wins against other lists because no one else is doing it yet, or knows how to deal with it?

Boba is doing well-- no doubt. But is he TRULY meta warping? Sure, he's won a System Open and made finals in another. But apart from that, a look at the most recent two pages of double digit player Hyperspace events shows him winning 5 out of 22 events. That's hardly meta warping. Talent of the players goes a long way.

But regardless----isn't this is how metas are formed or evolve? Someone comes up with something that they design and master, that others are unfamiliar with, and has success with it. Maybe it's slamming a couple of Deadman's Switch fireballs straight into a CIS swarm. Maybe it's someone daring to run dual Falcons or Decimators now in HS whereas they wouldn't have have considered in Extended. Trailblazing, yo. Parappa sez you gotta believe!

Don't people complain about everything though? If someone can point me to a tournament where Boba is in every top 8 list I'll shut up but it seems to me that he is beatable.

Is he too good for his cost? Yes

All I am saying is if he was as good as you guys are making out he should be at least in every top 4 list. Sure he wins in lots of events but he also loses in lots of events.

The point regarding the bid situation: would you prefer 2 ships like whisper to have force upgrades or the guarantee to move last. That's what you can get for 20 points! 2 aces with force instead of just aces.

If fenn could get a force upgrade in a Boba fenn list my guess would be they would slap that on him and have a 10 point bid instead. I am just a mere mortal though so my word is just a opinion.

4 minutes ago, K13R4N said:

All I am saying is if he was as good as you guys are making out he should be at least in every top 4 list. Sure he wins in lots of events but he also loses in lots of events.

That's where you should look at conversion rate, not actual numbers in cuts. And as always there is a diluting factor

7 minutes ago, Cloaker said:

Might I ask, do you play competitively? Or is your concern just locally he isn't fun to play against in general? Because part of playing competitively, in any game, is having counters for some of the top performers, right? There's ALWAYS going to be something you must design for. And perhaps some experimentation, and possibly even mastery of a list constructed with the above options might even result in wins against other lists because no one else is doing it yet, or knows how to deal with it?

Boba is doing well-- no doubt. But is he TRULY meta warping? Sure, he's won a System Open and made finals in another. But apart from that, a look at the most recent two pages of double digit player Hyperspace events shows him winning 5 out of 22 events. That's hardly meta warping. Talent of the players goes a long way.

But regardless----isn't this is how metas are formed or evolve? Someone comes up with something that they design and master, that others are unfamiliar with, and has success with it. Maybe it's slamming a couple of Deadman's Switch fireballs straight into a CIS swarm. Maybe it's someone daring to run dual Falcons or Decimators now in HS whereas they wouldn't have have considered in Extended. Trailblazing, yo. Parappa sez you gotta believe!

Yeah I do, I've run Boba competetively since 1st ed and won stuff with him as well. It's not that he's winning everything (why do people always fall into that trap?) it's that Boba/Fenn dunks hard on a lot of things and that's not fun nor encourages a healthy approach to list building (See Nym/Miranda).

2 minutes ago, tampermagnitude said:

Yeah I do, I've run Boba competetively since 1st ed and won stuff with him as well. It's not that he's winning everything (why do people always fall into that trap?) it's that Boba/Fenn dunks hard on a lot of things and that's not fun nor encourages a healthy approach to list building (See Nym/Miranda).

I hear ya. I just suppose we could make the argument for 4-5 other lists out there right now that are just as tough to balance for. Many of them are swarms, where Boba excels. But if you look at ranks after the cut, he's #6 overall. It's probably more of a volume thing, so it FEELS like he is everywhere, you know? I wonder, if he wasn't in Hyperspace how much more prevalent do you think swarms would be?

2 hours ago, K13R4N said:

Boba

Is he too good for his cost? Yes

I think his cost is overlooked. Every ship I bring that costs as much as him is f**king awesome. I'm fine with how good he is for what he costs.

Whether that individual power level belongs in HS is definitely the question.

Personally, I think I'd rather a few more were in. There would be less Boba, anyway.

But I kinda prefer playing against Boba to some of the others.

One man army....

5 hours ago, miguelj said:

Yeah he kind of is

I believe he had significant help getting way up there .

Beware Fangs and other Sprays!

Just FYI there are 81 prime champs in the us and only 12 weeks in which to schedule them. Allowed dates will be may 2 through Aug 8, excluding Aug 1 for gencon.

13 hours ago, Ablazoned said:

Just FYI there are 81 prime champs in the us and only 12 weeks in which to schedule them. Allowed dates will be may 2 through Aug 8, excluding Aug 1 for gencon.

What is being excluded? Is GenCon excluded from having a Prime? Is Aug 1 excluded from having a Prime because of GenCon? If so, is the exclusion NA or US only? Is Aug 1 now excluded from May 2 through Aug 8? If so, where will Aug 1 now be located on the calender?

On 2/19/2020 at 10:56 PM, Jeff Wilder said:

I made a mistake in a recent game with Boba and got unnecessarily blocked, so I ended up facing four shots (I think it was 13 or 14 dice) without a Reinforce, instead of five shots, but with a Reinforce.

I took 7 damage, instead of 4 or 5 damage. So in that respect, Boba Maul (BoMa?) cares about blocks.

OTOH, then I just stuck around the same position for a round or two and wrecked face, winning the game pretty easily. So in that respect, BoMa doesn't really care about blocks.

All a matter of perspective.

(I really have to agree with the post immediately above this one: Fett should not be in Hyperspace. It's not just an Extended ship, it's a 1E ship.)

Sorry to drag this up from the depths, but this really is the nub of the problem with Boba in Hyperspace. In extended there are things he doesn't want to see (7B Ani, AB Vader, Torp Wedge, Fel, FunSac, Guri etc), and they've all either been removed or neutered, meaning flying him goes from occasionally challenging to laughably easy. To move after him at I5 (to counter the 1pt Slave I) you have to bid 20 points and still worry about Fenn. There isn't much I can see in Hyperspace that can bid that deep and still have enough on the board to challenge other lists. He really is 'dial-in-whatever or bump do what you want man no consequences', which is not how it should be and feels very late stage first Ed.

18 hours ago, K13R4N said:

but it seems to me that he is beatable.

Why do people keep trying to refute a point that no one is making?

40 minutes ago, miguelj said:

Why do people keep trying to refute a point that no one is making?

Apologies, may I ask what point your making then?

7 minutes ago, K13R4N said:

Apologies, may I ask what point your making then?

Unbeatable is NEVER the point. Not even for dengaroo, triple defenders or paratanni was that the point.

2 hours ago, tampermagnitude said:

.... they've all either been removed or neutered, meaning flying him goes from occasionally challenging to laughably easy. To move after him at I5 (to counter the 1pt Slave I) you have to bid 20 points and still worry about Fenn. There isn't much I can see in Hyperspace that can bid that deep and still have enough on the board to challenge other lists.

If you're FO, unleash the hate of all your friends upon yourself and fly 5 SFs with Mag-Pulses. An NPE of the highest magnitude right now that I didn't really want to bring attention to regarding our Mandalorianfrends (and not too shabby potentially vs. CISwarms) because I'm Team Scum first. People are sleeping on MPW right now, but play a game where Boba or Fenn or CISwarm have 3-4 depletes land on them, guaranteed crits, and jam tokens. Different game.

Should I decide to fly more Hyperspace Rebel, I also find this double mod monstrosity very appealing also to deal with the big 2-3 HS meta eminences.

Lando Calrissian (79)
Mag-Pulse Warheads (6)
Nien Nunb (5)
Engine Upgrade (7)

Jake Farrell (36)
Mag-Pulse Warheads (6)

“Dutch” Vander (40)
Expert Handling (2)
Proton Torpedoes (13)
R3 Astromech (3)
Total: 197

The answers are out there

13 minutes ago, GreenDragoon said:

Unbeatable is NEVER the point. Not even for dengaroo, triple defenders or paratanni was that the point.

Sorry, not arguing I think I just joined the conversation a bit late. What is the point people are making?

9 minutes ago, K13R4N said:

Sorry, not arguing I think I just joined the conversation a bit late. What is the point people are making?

About Boba? That he is a 1.0 type ship with consequence-free pre-maneuver dial change (!) and complementary (focus+reroll) offensive&defensive passive mods (!) with a pseudo turret. On top of that he has not quite large base boost, but still larger-than-small-base. Any single one of these is strong. The facts that fearless gives him a third source of passive mods, that hull upgrade allows him to adjust the points threshold, or that bombs make him very hard to chase are just icing. Very delicious, but still just icing.

Luckily he is expensive and gives up decent half points. Defense is generally not on 1.0 level.

By the way, what about stealth device Boba?

18 minutes ago, K13R4N said:

Sorry, not arguing I think I just joined the conversation a bit late. What is the point people are making?

Boba makes Hyperspace less fun more than any other ship.

Just like Tripsilons. They didn't win any major tournaments. They just sucked to play against. Even if you won.

I think the importance of Slave one is also highlighted by just how hard Boba loses to Vader/Soontir. No value there and he just dies to range control.

13 minutes ago, GreenDragoon said:

By the way, what about stealth device Boba?

I think Stealth Device Boba is worth taking if you're 100% confident in your ability to control range. I'm pretty good at range control, but not perfect, so the points-threshold manipulation of Hull Upgrade is undoubtedly better for me.

2 hours ago, tampermagnitude said:

In extended there are things he doesn't want to see (7B Ani, AB Vader, Torp Wedge, Fel, FunSac, Guri etc), and they've all either been removed or neutered,

I'd like to throw Crack Shot in that mix as well. Two die shots have a much greater chance against Bobby Feet when they can nullify a result.

10 minutes ago, GreenDragoon said:

I think the importance of Slave one is also highlighted by just how hard Boba loses to Vader/Soontir. No value there and he just dies to range control.

I hope Boba is kept in the next Hyperspace curated with the Squint added in just to humble him. Slave 1 mebbe should be costed point for point to initiative also methinks to keep him honest

2 minutes ago, Jeff Wilder said:

I think Stealth Device Boba is worth taking if you're 100% confident in your ability to control range. I'm pretty good at range control, but not perfect, so the points-threshold manipulation of Hull Upgrade is undoubtedly better for me.

I never thought about it before. Rey profits a lot from stealth device, but she can of course use the second or third die in other ways, too. We found that she is pretty tanky with it.

Boba can't turn a blank into an evade, but he can reroll 1-2 of them and has force, often even focus on top. That should give him also a good defensive improvement in theory. Another lesson from Rey is that a single extra evade is as good as more HP. Obviously that's not quite true for Boba, as he also gets the changed points threshold (and you and me both like that very much!). But he pays just a point more. Every game where he uses it twice should be a success.

1 minute ago, GreenDragoon said:

I never thought about it before. Rey profits a lot from stealth device, but she can of course use the second or third die in other ways, too. We found that she is pretty tanky with it.

Boba can't turn a blank into an evade, but he can reroll 1-2 of them and has force, often even focus on top. That should give him also a good defensive improvement in theory. Another lesson from Rey is that a single extra evade is as good as more HP. Obviously that's not quite true for Boba, as he also gets the changed points threshold (and you and me both like that very much!). But he pays just a point more. Every game where he uses it twice should be a success.

What's a stealth device?

1 minute ago, Smikies02 said:

What's a stealth device?

Just in case I'm not missing a joke here...