9 minutes ago, GreenDragoon said:

Just in case I'm not missing a joke here...

What's extended?

1 minute ago, Smikies02 said:

What's extended?

Hahaha, you got me good! I was pretty sure that you had to know stealth device, but maybe I mistook you for someone else or something...

I agree, the question is irrelevant in hyperspace and that makes it admittedly quite irrelevant overall.

40 minutes ago, GreenDragoon said:

By the way, what about stealth device Boba?

Given that he likes to be at range 1 and when he's not he can't do anything with blank results...I'd say pass. Reinforce is a GREAT trick but makes stealth device dubious.

Boba doesn't often take big hits, but often at least 1 damage.

Other than what has already been said, stealth device takes the spot of hull upgrade which is awesome on Boba since it raises the threshold.

Also it's not boba the enemy, it's the dumbing down of xwing every new HS interaction brings

How long before Hyperspace becomes BobaFenn/BobaKoshka Vs CIS Swarms only? Maybe with a few Jedi lists and FOcho/FO aces thrown in?

Just now, tampermagnitude said:

How long before Hyperspace becomes BobaFenn/BobaKoshka Vs CIS Swarms only? Maybe with a few Jedi lists and FOcho/FO aces thrown in?

Never? There are way too many good, highly competitive lists in hyperspace for that to be a problem

18 minutes ago, tampermagnitude said:

How long before Hyperspace becomes BobaFenn/BobaKoshka Vs CIS Swarms only? Maybe with a few Jedi lists and FOcho/FO aces thrown in?

Haven't you heard? It's all about Teh Fireball now, Boba/CIS is SO early February

https://listfortress.com/tournaments/1578

#SkillsMatterMoreThanLists

#DontGiveUpItsGonnaBeAlright

6 minutes ago, Cloaker said:

Haven't you heard? It's all about Teh Fireball now, Boba/CIS is SO early February

https://listfortress.com/tournaments/1578

#SkillsMatterMoreThanLists

#DontGiveUpItsGonnaBeAlright

#IflewKylo2batoonly1tourneyandIplanondoingtripsilencersfortomorrow'sstorechamp

#heavyweaponsKyloBlackoutandsquadleaderMusetoafuturestorechamp

#KyloLeHuseOmegaExpertRivasifIgetthecoolplasticssoIcanflex

#flywhatyouloveandyou'llhaveabettertimethanflyingwhatismoremetaacknowledgedascompetitive

20 minutes ago, GreenDragoon said:

Never? There are way too many good, highly competitive lists in hyperspace for that to be a problem

Agreed! I think the balance is remarkable between 2 ship, 8 ship, and the in-between 5-ship lists.

I'd be willing to take 5X or 5 Resistance Salad or /ba + filler FO lists up against any Vulture swarm. It's one of the reasons why I moved away from Vultures lately: it's too easy to beat with 5 ship lists if you get a little practice in against it. Most people I talked to at the Texas SOS said they didn't have a Vulture player in their playgroup, so most of their strategies were just theoretical.

And 5 ships can do well against Boba/Fenn. You have to guess Fenn's move right on the One Important Turn and blow him up quick, and then grind Boba down over time.

1 hour ago, GreenDragoon said:

Never? There are way too many good, highly competitive lists in hyperspace for that to be a problem

I was being hyperbolic (?) of course, I'm just scarred by 1st ed when everyone just went for the best thing and top cuts were the same 3 lists and a couple of outliers. Happened early in second as well.

1 hour ago, pheaver said:

Agreed! I think the balance is remarkable between 2 ship, 8 ship, and the in-between 5-ship lists.

I'd be willing to take 5X or 5 Resistance Salad or /ba + filler FO lists up against any Vulture swarm. It's one of the reasons why I moved away from Vultures lately: it's too easy to beat with 5 ship lists if you get a little practice in against it. Most people I talked to at the Texas SOS said they didn't have a Vulture player in their playgroup, so most of their strategies were just theoretical.

And 5 ships can do well against Boba/Fenn. You have to guess Fenn's move right on the One Important Turn and blow him up quick, and then grind Boba down over time.

can confirm that no one in Texas plays CIS, let alone plays CIS well.

Has this not been working against Fett?

I really don't know what the track record is but this feels like as much of a hard counter as we could expect. It's only 3 points and you can slap it on a cheap ship so easily. Is it really that easy to Slave I YOLO out of it? I hear more complaints that blocking doesn't work than that he can't be blocked at all.

Even with infinite mods, one defense die vs 3 or more 3-dice attacks (or 5+ 2-dice attacks) feels like it would make him hurt. Very curious what people who have attempted it have to say on its effectiveness. After all, so many have been lamenting the loss of Crack Shot, but against double-mods, removing a green die gives almost similar results, but potentially far more than just 3 times.

3 minutes ago, ClassicalMoser said:

Has this not been working against Fett?

I really don't know what the track record is but this feels like as much of a hard counter as we could expect. It's only 3 points and you can slap it on a cheap ship so easily. Is it really that easy to Slave I YOLO out of it? I hear more complaints that blocking doesn't work than that he can't be blocked at all.

Even with infinite mods, one defense die vs 3 or more 3-dice attacks (or 5+ 2-dice attacks) feels like it would make him hurt. Very curious what people who have attempted it have to say on its effectiveness. After all, so many have been lamenting the loss of Crack Shot, but against double-mods, removing a green die gives almost similar results, but potentially far more than just 3 times.

SHHHHHHH!!!

is your hard counter a card that requires you to block a ship with a free maneuver change bevore moving?

2 minutes ago, Ablazoned said:

SHHHHHHH!!!

But seriously though. I mean Fett will have 1+ rerolls. If he doesn't he'll just boost to where he can get them or else boost to where you can't shoot him. The advice of "Stay at R2" has never worked for me personally because he has I5 boost on top of his passive mods. Why not just put every gun you have at R1? It's not like he can re-roll 4-5 dice?

And if every gun you have is at R1, you'll probably have at least someone in there blocking him. And after blocking him, you'll have 12ish dice pouring into him. If the blocker has intimidation, he'll likely as not be losing more than half his health in one turn, and his chances of absolutely nuking one of your ships isn't that good. I feel like that tilts things in your favor.

Is this actually a very hard thing to do in practice or are people legitimately not trying it? Or are they too afraid of what Fenn/Koshka/2xFangs will do in the meantime?

1 minute ago, GreenDragoon said:

is your hard counter a card that requires you to block a ship with a free maneuver change bevore moving?

Addressed:

10 minutes ago, ClassicalMoser said:

Is it really that easy to Slave I YOLO out of it? I hear more complaints that blocking doesn't work than that he can't be blocked at all.

It's not a statement; it's a question. Have you tried it? Most 5A lists have room for one copy of intimidation to deal with one of their tougher matchups.

10 minutes ago, ClassicalMoser said:

It's not a statement; it's a question.

It should be that easy, yes. If you have a ship with intimidation even remotely close to my Boba, then I'm going to move more defensively than usual.

So in a way, yes, intimidation might require me to adjust a bit. But it is not a secret ultimate counter. It's nice and fun if you have the points.

There's a great 5A version* that I seriously consider, including an intimidation as somewhat crackshot replacement. But Boba should not be caught by that. Should not. Of course, someone will eventually fail to dodge and anecdotes can spread freely.

e: *courtesy of @RStan by the way

7 minutes ago, GreenDragoon said:

But it is not a secret ultimate counter.

I didn't really mean to imply that; only that it can either severely hurt him or force him to keep his distance from you (which is exactly what you want, right?) or force him to target-prioritize an expendable ship, when played correctly. I didn't mean that it was the "Kill-Boba-Super-Card" because that wouldn't belong in 2.0 anyway.

7 minutes ago, GreenDragoon said:

But Boba should not be caught by that. Should not. Of course, someone will eventually fail to dodge and anecdotes can spread freely.

I'd like to see a better matchup aggregate; what are the lists or list features/archetypes that beat Fett most easily, and how do they accomplish that?

Obviously Player skill >>>>> List quality but we can find common threads regardless. It's best to be well-equipped in order to leverage the ideal strategy as well as possible.

Just now, ClassicalMoser said:

I didn't really mean to imply that; only that it can either severely hurt him or force him to keep his distance from you (which is exactly what you want, right?) when played correctly. I didn't mean that it was the "Kill-Boba-Super-Card" because that wouldn't belong in 2.0 anyway.

What I expect to happen: the game generally slows down a bit because Boba will disengage more often. That does not necessarily mean that intimidation leads to more wins over Boba.

1 minute ago, ClassicalMoser said:

I'd like to see a better matchup aggregate; what are the lists or list features/archetypes that beat Fett most easily, and how do they accomplish that?

Imo strongly modified and/or massed 3dice attacks. If the BigDeal list was still around then that. 4 double modified range1 attacks into Boba are too much for him. Even with reinforce you're likely to push 6 damage through.
Obviously the question is: why would Boba allow you to get 4 range 1 shots? He won't, or shouldn't. But that means he has to decide between rerolls and taking a lot of damage.
The other "problem" is that you don't get 4 double modified 3dice guns. That's a good thing, mind. The strong resistance jousters would still push 5 through, while 5X with just 2 range1 shots would still get 4. That last one is relatively realistic (of course, you expect to lose one of them, but does Boba want to risk it?). All those are with reinforce!

This reveals a hidden assumption on my part, by the way. I do not expect you to bring many guns AND intimidation; and I definitely don't expect Boba to be stupid enough to get caught by that. Boba should probably already avoid the scrum against the lists above, anyway. Intimidation does not change too much, it just punishes a mistake even harder. A 1x 4v1 and 3x 3v1 would almost kill Boba. The 5th shot of course lost due to the block.

12 minutes ago, GreenDragoon said:

This reveals a hidden assumption on my part, by the way. I do not expect you to bring many guns AND intimidation; and I definitely don't expect Boba to be stupid enough to get caught by that.

My hyperspace list:

Red Squadron Veteran (41)
Servomotor S-Foils (0)

Red Squadron Veteran (41)
Servomotor S-Foils (0)

Red Squadron Veteran (41)
Servomotor S-Foils (0)

Phoenix Squadron Pilot (29)
Intimidation (3)
Concussion Missiles (6)

Phoenix Squadron Pilot (29)
Intimidation (3)
Concussion Missiles (6)

Total: 199

View in Yet Another Squad Builder 2.0: https://raithos.github.io/?f=Rebel Alliance&d=v8ZhZ200Z2XWWWW142Y2XWWWW142Y2XWWWW142Y53X122W99Y53X122W99&sn=Unnamed Squadron&obs=

I couldn't make it to the LVO but this is what I'll be using for store champs. Obvs I need way more practice with it, but Intimidation and 3-4 3-dice attacks isn't at all unrealistic in this scenario; you put one A-Wing at each potential ending location, and sit back with your Xs with all arcs on both targets. If some get 4-dice attacks it's just gravy.

Of course, this majorly struggles against stuff like 5A and Fang Fighters, but I haven't found Firesprays to be that hard. That could be because my local scene isn't made up of all-stars, but I'm not all that either.

20 minutes ago, ClassicalMoser said:

I'd like to see a better matchup aggregate; what are the lists or list features/archetypes that beat Fett most easily, and how do they accomplish that?

Gimme 5 Black Squadron Scouts with Intimidate and Seismics and unchecked Imperial ego and let me at 'em! I'll do don't think I won't I have zero regard for the well being of my TIE Strikers I really do

(but yeah, in all seriousness 3 Bounty Hunters are pretty good against the Fearless Mandalorians 2 ship list... Enjoy chasing my triple 3 primary kill box rear arc and Seismics)

Yeah, if I'm flying Boba, you're gonna have to be pretty legendary to get an intimidation block on him. Mind you, if it's on 1 of 5 identical ships, I am gonna forget which is which and blithely drive into at some point. But that's kind of on me

Boba is gonna R1 something. The counter is to only give him 1, shoot him at R2 with the others.

Unless you're 4 Fangs. Then plant them all in his face and ask who's the f**king boss now, fake Mando? Vode An yeah?

1 minute ago, Cuz05 said:

Boba is gonna R1 something. The counter is to only give him 1, shoot him at R2 with the others.

5X at R1 is sad Boba, no? Doesn't seem like he'd enjoy 20 red dice, even with 2 rerolls. That calculate doesn't last long...

8 minutes ago, ClassicalMoser said:

5X at R1 is sad Boba, no? Doesn't seem like he'd enjoy 20 red dice, even with 2 rerolls. That calculate doesn't last long...

5 damage with reinforce, 6.5 if you got the block (and lose a shot). That's still surprisingly low, but also ends the game right then and there.

1 minute ago, GreenDragoon said:

5 damage with reinforce, 6.5 if you got the block (and lose a shot). That's still surprisingly low, but also ends the game right then and there.

And assuming Boba saves his mods for defense, in which case he can expect to deal, what, 0.926 damage in return?

Sad Boba.