1 hour ago, Brunas said:In all seriousness
supernatural kylo sends his regards
I'll be happy to argue (from wholly diverging experience sets) with you and @Tlfj200that SNR Kylo costs enough to be manageable with a variety of well rounded squads. It beats sitting around grumbling about Jedi.
I’m just gonna drop this here. We’ll discuss it after the fuse marker is removed.
16 minutes ago, FlyingAnchors said:I’m just gonna drop this here. We’ll discuss it after the fuse marker is removed.
Some of the most fun I've had in aces high is yoloing into the middle of the board with deathfire with this. Then at the start of the next round, dropping another.
As for real games, my experiences against it have mostly just been annoying, but it seems to usually be chaos for both players. Range 2 is massive.
Edited by Tsavong2 hours ago, FlyingAnchors said:I’m just gonna drop this here. We’ll discuss it after the fuse marker is removed.
It's hilarious but hasn't been too effective on any table I've seen so far. Not that I've seen it a bunch...
I'm not really sure I want to see it be good though... It inflicts sadness on anything it's dropped on.
Y'all can't even wait for a fuse to go off?
15 hours ago, Biophysical said:I'll be happy to argue (from wholly diverging experience sets) with you and @Tlfj200that SNR Kylo costs enough to be manageable with a variety of well rounded squads. It beats sitting around grumbling about Jedi.
Not sure which side of this I'm supposed to be on - I think I agree he's probably too expensive to hang, because aethersprites. I don't know about "a variety of well rounded squads", but that's nitpicking to levels that don't really matter. Like 40% of squads are Empire or Republic, which are a pretty good proxy for "scary thing moving after kylo"
It's taken me entirely too long to come around from skepticism to belief, but I'm now firmly convinced Force breaks the game and breaks the promise of 2.0. I'm not sure what kind of points adjustment would have to happen to convince me to keep playing the game competitively anymore, and I don't expect it to ever happen. If I'm not hunting cool faction prizes, I don't think I'll be hunting at all. I'm sad.
30 minutes ago, gennataos said:It's taken me entirely too long to come around from skepticism to belief, but I'm now firmly convinced Force breaks the game and breaks the promise of 2.0. I'm not sure what kind of points adjustment would have to happen to convince me to keep playing the game competitively anymore, and I don't expect it to ever happen.
, but also 
and 
18 minutes ago, svelok said:
Bummer, right? It's alright, I suppose...maybe just need to adjust hopes/expectation based on not joining the arms race. I'll have some of the coolest looking stuff on the 3-3 tables, though!
4 minutes ago, gennataos said:Bummer, right? It's alright, I suppose...maybe just need to adjust hopes/expectation based on not joining the arms race. I'll have some of the coolest looking stuff on the 3-3 tables, though!
3-3, but going for faction prizes?
Boy do I have the faction for you!
Edited by Brunas10 minutes ago, Brunas said:3-3, but going for faction prizes?
Boy do I have the faction for you!
According to some (inaccurate) counts, just showing up is enough!
But no, I already have a force-starved faction full of middling efficiency to squat within.
16 minutes ago, Brunas said:3-3, but going for faction prizes?
Boy do I have the faction for you!
Scum?
2 minutes ago, gennataos said:According to some (inaccurate) counts, just showing up is enough!
But no, I already have a force-starved faction full of middling efficiency to squat within.
Actually, here's a well deserved plug for OP:
There were 9 FO players day 1A of worlds that didn't drop. We scrounged together a dial etc for the unlucky 9th place (top 8 in faction was all the good prizes), but OP (I think Watkins?) saw us doing it, and just grabbed another set for them. Super classy.
1 minute ago, Brunas said:Actually, here's a well deserved plug for OP:
There were 9 FO players day 1A of worlds that didn't drop. We scrounged together a dial etc for the unlucky 9th place (top 8 in faction was all the good prizes), but OP (I think Watkins?) saw us doing it, and just grabbed another set for them. Super classy.
That's ridiculously awesome for all involved.
Would it be a good rule of thumb that a top level ace (with good equipment) should cost about twice as much as a basic ship of the same type?
I don't mean every highest initiative ship in a ship class, but if there's a ship that's a constant mainstay of a faction, it should be a question as to whether you'd rather have that ship or two basic ships.
Soontir: 57 with Crack/TC, compared to 68 for two Alphas. Soontir at 57 is a great buy.
Vader: 75 with FCS/Burners, compared to 76 for two Tempests (tempests are really bad, though, and x1s scale weird). Vader is comically better than two Tempests, this stretches the rule of thumb because of the extreme scaling of the Tempests.
Kylo: 76 vs 102 for 2 Seinar Analysts. I think I might rather have Kylo vs most squads.
Obiwan: 77 with 7b, Sense, and R2 vs 110 for two 7b Jedi Knights. The two Jedi Knights are probably better than that Obiwan, but not a lot better.
Luke: Luke 62 vs 82 for 2 Blues. I feel like 2 Blues are probably better than naked Luke, and I don't think Luke gets way better with upgrades. Blues are probably also overpriced, though. This seems the least egregious points difference between basic and ace.
Grand Quiz: naked 52 vs 2 Barons at 64. Does anyone think Quiz isn't worth at least as much as two Barons?
Anyway, I'm not saying aces have to be twice their basic equivalent, but it seems like it's probably an okay ballpark to shoot for, balance wise. If we have a hypothetical basic ship that is 50 points, you could get 4 basic ships, 2 basic ships and an ace, or 2 aces. That seems relatively reasonable.
1 hour ago, gennataos said:I'm not sure what kind of points adjustment would have to happen to convince me to keep playing the game competitively anymore, and I don't expect it to ever happen.
It depends on the points (IDOTP). The kind of point adjustment I think it would need is to take stuff like (Vader/Soontir/GI) and price it from 172 pts to 194ish pts without any upgrades. Then do something similar to any 655 555 combinations in Republic by primarily messing with base ship costs.
Bring it all more in line with the point costing approach for Aces in FO, Resistance, Rebels, and Scum with some minor exceptions. Just need Ace costs to be more consistently 200ish with minimal upgrades across factions and the game could start to look really interesting. With the way Force works those ships really need to be near upgradless when brought in groups of 3 i5+ things.
Keep in mind that Soontir, Sensor Torp Redline, and Whisper still fits with Fifth Bro and Passive Sensors on Whisper at 197 pts. That list never stopped being good and arguably was never fully addressed by FFG because of Soontir Bias. The old version Runs comfortably up to 200 now as well with Passive Sensors. Time to stop pretending “Trip Aces” are part of any factions untouchable identity. They are the top of the 2.0 Food Chain which leaves a pretty obvious choice of pricing them correctly or making other Aces and AOE equivalents substantially cheaper.
There are a few ways we can do this, and the choice is FFGs. Thankfully this isnt a price the stupid cards entirely out of the game situation like Luke Gunner or Supernatural. Its more just price the base pilot costs correctly and consistently towards 200 pts. Id still prefer a force rules change because Kylo, Vader, Obi, and Luke are my favorite Star Wars Characters. But the likelihood of that happening to keep their costs down and their list options open is pretty low.
Edited by Boom Owl1 minute ago, Biophysical said:Would it be a good rule of thumb that a top level ace (with good equipment) should cost about twice as much as a basic ship of the same type?
I don't mean every highest initiative ship in a ship class, but if there's a ship that's a constant mainstay of a faction, it should be a question as to whether you'd rather have that ship or two basic ships.
Soontir: 57 with Crack/TC, compared to 68 for two Alphas. Soontir at 57 is a great buy.
Vader: 75 with FCS/Burners, compared to 76 for two Tempests (tempests are really bad, though, and x1s scale weird). Vader is comically better than two Tempests, this stretches the rule of thumb because of the extreme scaling of the Tempests.
Kylo: 76 vs 102 for 2 Seinar Analysts. I think I might rather have Kylo vs most squads.
Obiwan: 77 with 7b, Sense, and R2 vs 110 for two 7b Jedi Knights. The two Jedi Knights are probably better than that Obiwan, but not a lot better.
Luke: Luke 62 vs 82 for 2 Blues. I feel like 2 Blues are probably better than naked Luke, and I don't think Luke gets way better with upgrades. Blues are probably also overpriced, though. This seems the least egregious points difference between basic and ace.
Grand Quiz: naked 52 vs 2 Barons at 64. Does anyone think Quiz isn't worth at least as much as two Barons?
Anyway, I'm not saying aces have to be twice their basic equivalent, but it seems like it's probably an okay ballpark to shoot for, balance wise. If we have a hypothetical basic ship that is 50 points, you could get 4 basic ships, 2 basic ships and an ace, or 2 aces. That seems relatively reasonable.
Probably doesn't hold, unless you have a very strict definiton of ace:
Imdaar: 44, Whisper 57
Delta: 69 (nice), Rexler 81
Academy 23, Scourge 32
Epsilon 26, Midnight 43 (lmao)
Lothal 68, Hera 73
RZ2As are probably the best counterexample, and the aciest example: 33 points for the generic who is good not great, and 36 points for tallie who is good not great.
3 minutes ago, Boom Owl said:Soontir Bias
We should make signs and bring them to OP events until Soontir has a real price
Pick Any 60-80 ish Point Ace:
Name the Logical Aces that don't win >50% of the time vs the above Teams of 3.
Edited by Boom Owl1 minute ago, Boom Owl said:Pick Any 60-80 ish Point Ace:
<stuff>
Name the Logical Aces that don't win >50% of the time vs the above Teams of 3.
God I'd vote for Ric over most of these. I think the only even scary one are the Alphas, Strikers, and Cartel Marauders
5 minutes ago, Brunas said:the only even scary one are the Alphas, Strikers, and Cartel Marauders
Maybe 👣 to? They are pretty bad though at 36 pts.
1 minute ago, Boom Owl said:Maybe 👣 to? They are pretty bad though at 36 pts.
Oh yeah, they'd be scary too. Didn't even realize what it was, haha.
6 minutes ago, Brunas said:God I'd vote for Ric over most of these. I think the only even scary one are the Alphas, Strikers, and Cartel Marauders
So the 3 attack die ones
Just now, jagsba said:So the 3 attack die ones
Weird pattern you've found there
...so what should the signs say. One side for Soontir, the other 7B? If they don't get nuked from orbit, at least.
12 minutes ago, Brunas said:Weird pattern you've found there
...so what should the signs say. One side for Soontir, the other 7B? If they don't get nuked from orbit, at least.
Might just be easier to get shirts that say "We are the 99%" with a picture of an i3 ship on the front.
Edited by Boom Owl