Just now, svelok said:

Tallissan Lintra: i5, 2/3/4, s-tier dial with a turret and boost, 36 points

Malarus: i5, 2/3/4, tie fighter dial, 39 points

Oddball: i5, 2/2/5, b-wing dial, 35 points

really makes you

The worst part is no one even mad that at Tallie. They're like, mostly playableish. Pretty much (maybe the only?) 2 die ship where more than either the cheapest or most expensive pilot is playable.

1 minute ago, Brunas said:

Really? SWG still has a reputation as one of the best multiplayer RPGs, if not the best, ever made.

It was less popular because it didn't feel very star wars until space combat dropped, but yeah. Before wow totally changed what success meant, it was wildly successful.

I played Earth and Beyond from 2002 - 2003 and got into the open beta for WoW in 2004. Earth and Beyond was exclusively space combat and exploration.

SWG might have been well played, but I can't say I know anyone in my day to day life the played it, and the early 2000s was high school for me, so we definitely had time.

2 minutes ago, Brunas said:

The worst part is no one even mad that at Tallie. They're like, mostly playableish. Pretty much (maybe the only?) 2 die ship where more than either the cheapest or most expensive pilot is playable.

Is she to cheap or the others too expensive?

Because Tallie barely sees play. Sure, many resistance lists have her. But there are only few of those in the first place. Malarus and Oddball are simply ignored entirely.

That points to the others being too expensive, and not her too cheap.

4 minutes ago, GreenDragoon said:

That points to the others being too expensive, and not her too cheap.

Depends on how committed FFG is to making Aces "bad".

2 minutes ago, Boom Owl said:

Depends on how committed FFG is to making Aces "bad".

"Not at all" ? Maybe. Probably.

And when you say bad...

I never played but I thought SWG went downhill when they let everyone be a Jedi?

26 minutes ago, Brunas said:

The worst part is no one even mad that at Tallie. They're like, mostly playableish. Pretty much (maybe the only?) 2 die ship where more than either the cheapest or most expensive pilot is playable.

Tallie being not at all broken at 36 in an RZ2 is a strong indicator that a lot of TIE Fighter aces need to go way down. Not necessarily the bonus attack ships, but pretty much all the others.

25 minutes ago, Transmogrifier said:

I never played but I thought SWG went downhill when they let everyone be a Jedi?

SWG went downhill in multiple places.

It started as an extremely sandboxy, not very star warsy game with an entirely run player economy, all items were crafted/created by players. Basically, space fantasy Eve on the ground.

After WoW was wildly successful at launch, SoE decided that changing their game more like WoW would make it more popular. They implemented this: https://swg.fandom.com/wiki/Combat_Upgrade_Changes. Basically, instead of a "build your own character" with mix and match whatever skills you want, and replaced it with a very standard leveling system. More standard RPG loot too, etc.

...Then SWG became a worse version of Wow, so they slowly bled people to Wow because if that's the game you were looking for Wow was just better at it.

Years later, SoE decided doubling down on theme (what the game was weakest at) was the winning strategy for gaining players and implemented https://swg.fandom.com/wiki/New_Game_Enhancements. This was wildly unpopular and destroyed the playerbase more or less overnight. The game was basically on maintenance mode instantly after this came out.

As for Jedi, it's mostly unrelated to the game's success. Initially it was really, really grindy (and luck based) for whether you unlocked jedi, and they weren't amazing, and suffered from permadeath. With the CU they made them into a more regular class, but they were still better than everything else but took some grinding to get. After the NGE there were just 9 classes with no customization, which were supposed to be balanced with each other, so there was a lot of jedi salt.

9 minutes ago, Biophysical said:

Tallie being not at all broken at 32 in an RZ2 is a strong indicator that a lot of TIE Fighter aces need to go way down. Not necessarily the bonus attack ships, but pretty much all the others.

She's 36. Howl/Iden tax are probably always going to keep TIE l/n points high, yeah?

23 minutes ago, gennataos said:

She's 36. Howl/Iden tax are probably always going to keep TIE l/n points high, yeah?

I corrected myself like <1 minute after I posted. How long did you sit on that reply before you hit post?

I was maiy thinking of TIE/FOs, as most of the Imperial aces are attack bluffs anyway.

3 minutes ago, Biophysical said:

I was maiy thinking of TIE/FOs, as most of the Imperial aces are attack bluffs anyway.

I think Malarus / Static / Longshot (since it's kinda hard to pull off) can come down, but I'm kinda okay with unplayable midnight and muse if I'm honest.

Also Drop Swoop down, and also probably Axe.

I have thoughts on Malarus and Lt Kestal, (the TIE/ag), that relate back to the badness of certain things.

I think they both fall into this pool of pilots that are actually good but no one ever uses them because they are also bad. Pilots in average frames who cross a point boundary where you cannot get sufficient specific 'other' in the squad to leverage their init/ability, making them essentially useless.

Basically, rather than the pilot, it's down to squad balance and certain meta trends regarding what's needed for a good one. Ultimately, you end up being infinitely better off trimming a bit from the 'other' and taking 2 naked generics instead.

But, things are always in flux, points, upgrades, new ships and squad components. I think it's weĺl worth having a proper idea of what you could do with these not too bad things, for when you get that little window of opportunity that new throws up.

Malarus and Kestal in particular, fit that for me. Both edge towards being better than people would expect and could find a place in the new wave.

The Aggressor itself does need proper help though, ofc...

5 hours ago, PaulRuddSays said:

Balanced is a loaded word. The lower bound is really "are 2 attack dice ships relevant?"

Balanced is the new bad

8 hours ago, gennataos said:

She's 36. Howl/Iden tax are probably always going to keep TIE l/n points high, yeah?

Idk. I kinda wanna see 8 tie swarm with Howlie in the center for a points change update.

5 hours ago, FlyingAnchors said:

Idk. I kinda wanna see 8 tie swarm with Howlie in the center for a points change update.

I've been playing since the dark days of early 1e. No. **** that. It does not lead to the interesting games that you think it will. If I never have to fight another Howl swarm I will die a happy man. That list **** near killed the game before it even took off in the first place.

11 hours ago, jagsba said:

Balanced is the new bad

New Balance is bad. Seriously. Such low sneaker quality.

4 hours ago, Flurpy said:

New Balance is bad. Seriously. Such low sneaker quality.

Their running shoes fit so well, though.

1 hour ago, Biophysical said:

Their running shoes fit so well, though.

Team ASICS for life

2 hours ago, Biophysical said:

Their running shoes fit so well, though.

I don't wear any of your fancy, name-brand shoes. Just give me two burlap sacks on my feet and I'll be fine.

Having better Red, Green, Yellow, and Blue numbers on your ship is often not as good as having better Orange and Pink numbers.

Orange. And. Pink.

Dunkin Donuts takeover of FFG confirmed.

59 minutes ago, theBitterFig said:

Orange. And. Pink.

thanks doc

This discussion reminds me how Red/Green colorblindness would suck in the Great Sith War for non-force users.

25 minutes ago, Hoarder of Garlic Bread said:

This discussion reminds me how Red/Green colorblindness would suck in the Great Sith War for non-force users.

That assumes being a non-force user in the great sith war wouldn't suck in general.

On 12/21/2019 at 1:49 AM, DarkArk said:

I've been playing since the dark days of early 1e. No. **** that. It does not lead to the interesting games that you think it will. If I never have to fight another Howl swarm I will die a happy man. That list **** near killed the game before it even took off in the first place.

I was a big fan of it in 1.0, why do you think I want it back? Also how did it kill the game? My opponents had no problem Ps killing Howlie and then mopping up the academy pilots.

Random Thoughts:

List building an entire list isnt a skill although it kinda is early in a point cycle or release. Netlisting isnt enough, have to be able to make small list iterations well without destroying what was a good list. Aces and Turret Aces usually arent actually difficult to play. Jousting isnt always wrong or easy or clearly defined, its a bad word. Box Formations arent always bad, just easy to counter with basically anything. Its still not your dice. Your opponent isnt slow playing. Slow play isnt the same thing as fortressing. Moving first isnt an auto loss in all matchups it just requires more effort. Turn 0 doesnt matter as much as Turns 1-3. 100% Destruction isnt necessary or more honorable. Running away can be more risky than fighting. Power Creep and Point Increases are legitimate balancing strategies, players usually have a preference for one vs the other. Bid rules arent a huge problem, high init ship cheap point costs are. Playing “bad” lists at tournaments is fun. Playing “broken” lists at tournaments is fun to. X-Wing should be balanced around Tie Fighters. Aces High is the best X-Wing format. **** takes are fun.