• Give me a 1 or 2 point drop on Scyks, please
• Leia up, up, up!
• Send Braylen up a couple and Cassian up a few more than that
• A-Wings (RZ1) down (except Jake)
• Imperials... oh boy. Generics need to be reworked somehow, in most of the ships
• Rest of the factions... meh, who cares?

45 minutes ago, LagJanson said:

• Give me a 1 or 2 point drop on Scyks, please
• Leia up, up, up!
• Send Braylen up a couple and Cassian up a few more than that
• A-Wings (RZ1) down (except Jake)
• Imperials... oh boy. Generics need to be reworked somehow, in most of the ships
• Rest of the factions... meh, who cares?

RZ-1s should get a mod slot, and maybe a 1-2 point reduction (depends on where that puts them next to Z95s.)

47 minutes ago, LagJanson said:

Give me a 1 or 2 point drop on Scyks, please

What does Autoblaster+Scyk need to cost to make Drea Scyks meta?

3 minutes ago, prauxim said:

What does Autoblaster+Scyk need to cost to make Drea Scyks meta?

Assuming no change to Drea or dorsal, 156/6?

Ill try 156/5 (31?) but I don’t think it’ll be enough.

36 minutes ago, prauxim said:

What does Autoblaster+Scyk need to cost to make Drea Scyks meta?

To make Drea Scyk meta, I think you'd need Autoblaster + Scyk to cost [Scyk] points. It's a 2 red dice weapon, and 2 red dice Scyks with Drea are already playable, and currently bad.

I just don't think Autoblaster is very good on them. Doesn't give all that much to a Scyk. Unpreventable crit from out-of arc. Scyks aren't going to be that great at getting that together. Flankers without boost is pretty hard to pull off. Extra attack die in Bullseye isn't bad. But HLC gives TWO extra attack dice in bullseye. I guess Autoblaster is going to be cheaper. 5x HLC Scyks won't currently fit with Drea, but 5x Autoblaster might. I still don't really think it'd matter much.

Autoblaster seems more like a Gunboat option (Maybe XG-1 and Autoblaster on a Passive Sensor/Torpedo Gunboat, rather than OS-1, since it might be easier to make Cannon rather than Torpedo attacks while disarmed), and a great tool for IG-88 B adjacent ships (mostly due to cheapness and what that does for listbuilding options... I have my eye on A/B/4-LOM). That is, places where the fact that it's a *cannon* weapon matters, rather than the specifics of the Autoblaster's attack.

Dang I wish I had access to a 1e dice calc, to see how much the old Ten Nunb ability actually adds in damage.

1 hour ago, prauxim said:

What does Autoblaster+Scyk need to cost to make Drea Scyks meta?

Psst. Already using it and being surprised about effectiveness. Auto blaster would be icing on the cake.

3 hours ago, Bucknife said:

RZ-1s should get a mod slot, and maybe a 1-2 point reduction (depends on where that puts them next to Z95s SCYKS.)

FTFY Rebels have their Z-95 as their simile (in Extended anyways, which still needs to be taken into account) to the over priced Scum Z-95. The closest simile in S&V is the M3-A, which when you set the RZ-1 next to the M3-A their prices in relation to each other is about right, so unless the M3-A drops in price an equal amount the RZ-1 needs to stay put 😠… The RZ-1 already gets nearly "free" access to cheap mods via the talent slot across the friggin board and has allot more going for it action economy side than the Scyk...

Edit: For clarity as to why I hold the opinion I do lets look at the dials, Action Bar, base stats and ship ability.

RZ-1:

Action Bar; Every action but Rotate, Reload and Reinforce.

Dial; Every turn, missing 1 banks, fast and nimble blues, versatile (fast K-Turn and 3 S-loops) turnaround options.

Stats; 2 fp, 3 agil, 2 hull, 2 shield

Ability; Linked to Boost from every action on the Bar other than its Boost

M3-A:

Action Bar; Does not have the Boost action, same as RZ-1 otherwise.

Dial; Every bank, missing 3 turns, movement restrictive and slow blues, K-turns only for turnaround.

Stats; 2 fp, 3 agil, 3 hull, 1 shield

Ability; Pay extra points to get a single slot special weapon (2 slot when Diamond Boron missiles release)

So, for 2 points over the Spacer the Phoenix gains linked boost, much better blues, better crit mitigation (2 shield vs 1 shield), wide turns, the ability to turn around without being in the same flight lane and not have to invest anything further to make use of its pilot ability (other than Jamming beam on the M3-A, which is an extremely situational and otherwise crap upgrade). For 2 points... That is a min of 1 point too cheap of a price difference.

Now for current Slots (Inc ability on the M3-A just to be fair).

Phoenix RZ-1: Talent, Missile

Spacer Scyk: Hardpoint, Mod

Talent slot gives the RZ-1 access to dirt cheap passive mods (I'll grant that Marks, Pred and Crack take a little work to get to trigger, but at 1/2/1 point that is still dirt cheap and bullseye is not as hard to get to trigger even on low Init as people claim) and the Phoenix is the fastest cheap Coordinate ship in the game (Phoenix + Squad Leader is 34, the RZ-1 action bar covers all but 3 actions).

IF The RZ-1 gets reduced in cost at all, the Scyk needs to go down as far if not slightly further to compensate. IF The RZ-1 gains the mod slot, further opening up its potential, the Scyk needs to gain a slot as well (preferably Sensor). If they buff the RZ-1 and don't do so equitably for the M3-A then in my opinion FFG is putting the final nail in the coffin of the Scyk and might as well cancel its rerelease in Wave 5.

Am I the only one who still thinks Force Charges are 1.0 bull? I dont see any reason to play a list that doesnt have a force charge or an equivalent like "assign" in it.

Also, I promise I am not just complaining about whatever mechanic I lost to most recently.

RE Scyk Costs: I think I agree with something @ficklegreendice was saying the other day about TIE/fo. The problem isn't necessarily the 28 point price on the cheapest, but perhaps the scaling. Cartel Spacer -> Tansarii Point Veteran is +4 points, while Phoenix -> Green A-Wing is 2 points. Inaldra pays 3 points over a Spacer for +1 Init, and an incredibly risky self-damaging ability. Back when Scyks could regen in 1e, that didn't seem so wrong, but she feels overpriced. Genesis Red and Quinn Jast feel about right, but Serissu might be better off at like 38 rather than 40.

I'd also agree that any reduction in A-Wing prices should probably be met with Scyk and TIE/fo price reductions. However, I don't really think they need to go down. If the peaks get shaved off the more over-tuned and over-represented stuff, these don't seem too wrong.

12 minutes ago, Boom Owl said:

Am I the only one who still thinks Force Charges are 1.0 bull? I dont see any reason to play a list that doesnt have a force charge or an equivalent like "assign" in it.

Also, I promise I am not just complaining about whatever mechanic I lost to most recently.

Hrm. The force is almost a test of "if we price it right, is it still broken?" It's quite strong, but somewhat expensive (expensive enough?). Likewise, I'm incredibly glad Force Talents are typically either wicked costly or wicked situational.

(Except you, Hate.)

Id probably stop complaining about it if it loosely fell under action rules and didnt work while blocked or stress or over a rock. Its good enough functioning as a stress less “resource” based linked action and at minimum permanent free calculate token if your bad with money.

Also while im ranting Regen isnt nearly as bad as it should be.

8 minutes ago, Boom Owl said:

Also while im ranting Regen isnt nearly as bad as it should be.

R2 Astromech almost surely didn't need the price cut it got in January.

Well.

Maybe it did in the metagame of January, when Proton Torpedo alpha strikes were so important. But given the nerfs to alpha striking, Regen didn't also need buffs.

Eh, force walks a fine line

It's mainly balanced by ffg not giving it to ships that can perform (non-purple) evades and by pricing it right

It's also nice that most pilot abilities have to spend force as a cost while only a few (Luke and mace?) regain them

So, eh. 1st Ed in loose theory; not even approaching execution

In exchange, it lets you make a lot of meaningful decisions provided your choices when it comes to spending are worth it (so mainly the fine-tuned delta)

Let's just keep it that way and not give it to any more 3 agi ships

Hope ffg explores recurring charge based abilities in the way they did the Sprite

I disagree. Primarily because I want to be mad and im not done being mad at Regen and Unearned Mods.

Serissu has shown up only 13 times on listfortress at the current 40 point price (and only 6 times before that, at 43 points). Genesis Red only 12 times since points, and Quinn Jast only 7.

Just now, Boom Owl said:

I disagree. Primarily because I want to be mad and im not done being mad at Regen and Unearned Mods.

No worries,

Soon we will have passive sensors, the return of alphawing to gripe about!

(Maybe)

4 minutes ago, svelok said:

Serissu has shown up only 13 times on listfortress at the current 40 point price (and only 6 times before that, at 43 points). Genesis Red only 12 times since points, and Quinn Jast only 7.

Which is interesting since in an I5 list (yes I know he's I4) with an decent bid (over 4 points) and Juke he's/she's a mongoose to the Sigma cobras.

19 minutes ago, Boom Owl said:

Id probably stop complaining about it if it loosely fell under action rules and didnt work while blocked or stress or over a rock. Its good enough functioning as a stress less “resource” based linked action and at minimum permanent free calculate token if your bad with money.

Also while im ranting Regen isnt nearly as bad as it should be.

Jam should spend force

Fite me

(On reflection, I'd actually hate this, partly because rockpaperscissors isn't a great game, but mostly because I don't want to have a reason to dig through the back end of my binder to find jamming beam before every tournament (I'd probably still never use it though)).

4 minutes ago, Hiemfire said:

Which is interesting since in an I5 list (yes I know he's I4) with an decent bid (over 4 points) and Juke he's/she's a mongoose to the Sigma cobras.

But even if he's a mongoose, that seems likely to get trampled under the feet of beef cattle.

14 minutes ago, ficklegreendice said:

Soon we will have passive sensors, the return of alphawing to gripe about!

That im totally fine with. Qualifies as earned. Especially on Gunboats.

3 minutes ago, theBitterFig said:

But even if he's a mongoose, that seems likely to get trampled under the feet of beef cattle.

Depends on his/her positioning to be frank, his ability can make getting double mods fairly easy.

This past episode made me feel very much at home with all the data and methodology.

4 hours ago, Boom Owl said:

Am I the only one who still thinks Force Charges are 1.0 bull? I dont see any reason to play a list that doesnt have a force charge or an equivalent like "assign" in it.

Also, I promise I am not just complaining about whatever mechanic I lost to most recently.

Force is incredible. I think that force pilots in general probably need to go up, and really what I want is force pilots to go up a bunch and to have a lot of useful, cheap force talents that give you a benefit when you spend the force for their effect.

At the same time, the only Jedi that I feel is currently oppressive is Anakin, and if the R2 units go up to 6 that gives some tough choices.

5 hours ago, Boom Owl said:

Id probably stop complaining about it if it loosely fell under action rules and didnt work while blocked or stress or over a rock. Its good enough functioning as a stress less “resource” based linked action and at minimum permanent free calculate token if your bad with money.

Also while im ranting Regen isnt nearly as bad as it should be.

44 minutes ago, Micanthropyre said:

Force is incredible. I think that force pilots in general probably need to go up, and really what I want is force pilots to go up a bunch and to have a lot of useful, cheap force talents that give you a benefit when you spend the force for their effect.

At the same time, the only Jedi that I feel is currently oppressive is Anakin, and if the R2 units go up to 6 that gives some tough choices.

I haven't said this in a while, but I'll say it again:

Expertise was good. Like End Times of 1.0 good, and it was 4 1.0 points. Force (even 1) is Expertise that can be used on defense, and while stressed. Force is 1.0 good.

Then I hear people complain about paying too much for Force pilots or Force crew, and I have to channel my inner @Tlfj200 and go "Look ************, you were happy to pay 8 points for crappy Force in the form of Expertise, shut up and pay for your ***-****ed Force."

6 hours ago, Boom Owl said:

Am I the only one who still thinks Force Charges are 1.0 bull? I dont see any reason to play a list that doesnt have a force charge or an equivalent like "assign" in it.

Also, I promise I am not just complaining about whatever mechanic I lost to most recently.

I said the same thing and all I got were a bunch of confused emojis from paste-eaters. Force is probably okay at 1 charge, too good at 2 charges, and completely absurd at 3 charges. I've been, and will continue to be, playing with force pilots until FFG gets their head on straight and nerfs it. You're completely right. It's too good and they're unconditional actions, a mechanic that shouldn't exist in 2.0.