15 minutes ago, Boom Owl said:

I might be overestimating this but I am convinced that regardless of tie swarms obvious power level the people will generally avoid using it because they have been told repeatedly and incorrectly that its a “high skill” list beyond their mental capacity.

Your meta is clearly different... 7 person fun tournament... 3 TIE swarms... Placed 2nd, 3rd and 4th... hilariously, always played side by side across from the varied opponents.

We're getting a lot of TIE swarms up here.

13 minutes ago, Brunas said:

Nope, I completely agree. So many times I've seen "gonna try a tie swarm but guess I'll let because it's hard" followed by "oh my God that was easy"

Can confirm, I put a swarm on the table and somebody walked up to me and was like "wow that's an impressive formation you have going on". What have the people been brainwashed into thinking.

7 minutes ago, SnooSnarry said:

Can confirm, I put a swarm on the table somebody walked up to me and was like "wow that's an impressive formation you have going on". What have the people been brainwashed into thinking.

Most people don't regularly ready forums or reddit or listen to podcasts. For someone who hasn't tried it themselves, flying a swarm probably does look intimidating. I'd argue the majority of brainwashing occurs with those who are most plugged in. It's hard to separate the wheat from the chaff sometimes.

43 minutes ago, Brunas said:

balance is a harder question to answer, because who when knows what that means.

Hah, fair.

43 minutes ago, Brunas said:

In terms of general enjoyability though, I've been preferring extended (I can't believe I'm typing that). I'm not sure if it's less one dimensional, or just feels less one dimensional because phantoms are more interesting than tie swarms.

That must depend on local metas. It's still a rare highlight to play a swarm, and I've had some on vassal. I don't mind the matchup though.

I also argue that more one-dimensional is good if you mean more maneuver focused. But I don't know what you mean by that.

1 minute ago, GreenDragoon said:

Hah, fair.

That must depend on local metas. It's still a rare highlight to play a swarm, and I've had some on vassal. I don't mind the matchup though.

I also argue that more one-dimensional is good if you mean more maneuver focused. But I don't know what you mean by that.

Kind of? Hyperspace is currently dominated by jousting lists that are ignoring core game mechanics pretty hard. Leia is more or less the Luke Gunner or Supernatural of jousting, but literally everything has it. It's impossible to meaningfully punish these lists for poor maneuvering, and since 25% of ALL lists have Leia, it's a little disheartening.

Just now, Brunas said:

Kind of? Hyperspace is currently dominated by jousting lists that are ignoring core game mechanics pretty hard. Leia is more or less the Luke Gunner or Supernatural of jousting, but literally everything has it. It's impossible to meaningfully punish these lists for poor maneuvering, and since 25% of ALL lists have Leia, it's a little disheartening.

I see. I agree on beef being annoying. It is the most frequent and least enjoyable matchup for me in hyperspace.

Now I'm going to sound like the usual NPE apologist, right? 'But Chris, you can play around it, it is just every 3 turns, you can adjust your list a bit, you can do X or Y, ...'

I don't know, some of it feels true to me when talking about Leia, but I know that some feel Han to be fine, too. So... yeah.

36 minutes ago, Brunas said:

So many times I've seen "gonna try a tie swarm but guess I'll let because it's hard" followed by "oh my God that was easy"

It's the dawning realization that you're not actually flying 6 ships with 6 different dials and 6 decisions to make...you're setting one dial per round for half the game...

E
Z

6 minutes ago, GreenDragoon said:

I see. I agree on beef being annoying. It is the most frequent and least enjoyable matchup for me in hyperspace.

Now I'm going to sound like the usual NPE apologist, right? 'But Chris, you can play around it, it is just every 3 turns, you can adjust your list a bit, you can do X or Y, ...'

I don't know, some of it feels true to me when talking about Leia, but I know that some feel Han to be fine, too. So... yeah.

And I think you're (somewhat) right - you can technically play around it, but I don't think you should be able to against a good opponent if that makes sense.

I don't have a huge Leia vendetta or anything - it was an understandable change attempt, just ended up not being fun.

1 minute ago, Brunas said:

And I think you're (somewhat) right - you can technically play around it, but I don't think you should be able to against a good opponent if that makes sense.

Yes, makes sense. As initially said, maybe it just depends on the local or even not so local meta. And even rebel beef games were fine for me, independent of outcome, so I never went there to think about it in that way.

On the chance of being hypocritical, at some point I want to temper my principles with pragmatism. Beef with Leia is just below my treshold of ringing any bells.

Unlike for example 3force Jedi, which I started playing myself after a scarring loss.

Of all the possible Rebel Glue flavors that could destroy the game, Rebel Defenders every 3 turns, minimal regen and damage spreading feels like the most wholesome available timeline.

2 minutes ago, Boom Owl said:

Of all the possible Rebel Glue flavors that could destroy the game, Rebel Defenders every 3 turns, minimal regen and damage spreading feels like the most wholesome available timeline.

Unironically this.

It's the best bad case, and I'm just happy that it's not so bad.

1 hour ago, LagJanson said:

Already enjoying the new 'cast - it's not really content at this point, just laughing about the same things I'm already laughing about.

Thanks @Brunas

Well, let us know when you get to something you disagree with or want to elaborate upon.

I give spicy opinions as facts to try to provoke a discussion.

2 minutes ago, Kaptin Krunch said:

Well, let us know when you get to something you disagree with or want to elaborate upon.

I give spicy opinions as facts to try to provoke a discussion.

Somehow I'd expect you to toss a processed ghost pepper into the mix to see who likes the spice.

Actually, I'll admit I haven't listened to yours in a long while, and then only a couple...

So, I just finished the episode. On one hand, I concede that I had picked the completely wrong topic from the episode.

On the other hand, I don' want to get banned.

In defense of Leia as a Not-That-NPE:

Leia also seems easily "fixable" with points, if FFG thinks she's a problem. She feels a bit under-priced at 2 points, and might even be played at her original 8 points, now that Rebels have a taste for the Defender lifestyle. Somewhere in between might make more sense. Leia is great for jousting, but it's hard to consider a Joust list a NPE, and cost matters significantly to jousting which tends to live and die on cost efficiency. Points can balance them.

Han's tricks are more structural rather than cost-based. ID, Kanan, and R2 are all probably fairly priced... on anyone but Han. Luke Gunner should probably not exist as printed, but price doesn't necessarily seem wrong. Maybe the base cost of Han himself should go up, but that would kill the pilot entirely, rather than addressing a potentially problematic build.

1 minute ago, GreenDragoon said:

So, I just finished the episode. On one hand, I concede that I had picked the completely wrong topic from the episode.

On the other hand, I don' want to get banned.

Spoiler, dang it. Now it's ruined. Why bother listening to the rest?

2 minutes ago, theBitterFig said:

Han's tricks are more structural rather than cost-based.

Spot on. You can fix Leia with a simple cost change.

But Han could be increased in cost by 25 points and still be viable...because the underlying problem is the ID/R2/Han interaction, not the price point.

1 minute ago, LagJanson said:

Spoiler, dang it. Now it's ruined. Why bother listening to the rest?

Don't. Go to the last 20min

10 minutes ago, GreenDragoon said:

So, I just finished the episode. On one hand, I concede that I had picked the completely wrong topic from the episode.

On the other hand, I don' want to get banned.

I still don't know, and now my search history is weirder than usual...

Just now, Brunas said:

I still don't know, and now my search history is weirder than usual...

I

Don't

Believe

You.

24 minutes ago, Kaptin Krunch said:

I give spicy opinions as facts to try to provoke a discussion.

First Order Test Pilots should not be compared to Interceptors as the Evade to Target Lock switch makes them fundamentally different ships.

8 minutes ago, MCRemix said:

But Han could be increased in cost by 25 points and still be viable...because the underlying problem is the ID/R2/Han interaction, not the price point.

Is it a problem on any other pilot though? I think the problem is more than Han enables a lot of **** that other pilots don't (Landos good, but he's more predictable for it, and the other two are meh at best) and he doesn't pay the cost for it. Han may have been fine at his initial price point, and could probably be priced such that this specific build is non-viable.

1 minute ago, Do I need a Username said:

Han may have been fine at his initial price point, and could probably be priced such that this specific build is non-viable.

Or we could just pull a Leebo and yank the illicit slot off Han.

I know, i know..."but muh fluff!"

Just now, MCRemix said:

Or we could just pull a Leebo and yank the illicit slot off Han.

I know, i know..."but muh fluff!"

See my problem with that is that I am unsure if that makes Han balanced, or just removes this one combo.

Just now, MCRemix said:

Or we could just pull a Leebo and yank the illicit slot off Han.

I know, i know..."but muh fluff!"

Didn't Han dump his illicit goods at the first sign of trouble? That's why Jabba put a price on his head.

1 minute ago, Do I need a Username said:

See my problem with that is that I am unsure if that makes Han balanced, or just removes this one combo.

I mean, Han probably just needs a point increase period, that ability is SUPER good. But...

My argument for the slot change is that you can't price Han high enough to dumpster the combo without rendering him completely useless.

Just now, Chumbalaya said:

Didn't Han dump his illicit goods at the first sign of trouble? That's why Jabba put a price on his head.

"Han must discard any equipped illicit before declaring target for an attack or after defending"

Just now, MCRemix said:

I mean, Han probably just needs a point increase period, that ability is SUPER good. But...

My argument for the slot change is that you can't price Han high enough to dumpster the combo without rendering him completely useless.

As long as both show up, I'm fine.