Just found out from my FLGS that their Wave 3 stock won’t be in until Friday afternoon 😭

2 hours ago, Chumbalaya said:

Basically everything that made extended a trash fire of a format got ported into hyperspace.

Not everything, but seeing Vader crew made me pivot hard from what I wanted to fly.

I still like Hyperspace as an idea, like, it's nice to have pretty much even numbers of ships for factions. But I do sort of question why it exists anymore.

New players can't get all the ships in it easily. All the same sort of things are in there meta-wise. All that's missing is a whole bunch of suboptimal "jank" ships.

I'm one of the people who was a staunch defender of Hyperspace and now I'm just sort of thinking it's an unnecessary contrivance.

1 hour ago, Kieransi said:

New players can't get all the ships in it easily.

They never could though:

Ship availability over time per faction:

Per Wave:

• Wave 1: Total 10/12, but was called "second edition" and there were basically no events
  • Rebels: 3/4
  • Imperials: 3/4
  • Scum: 4/4
  • Resistance: -
  • FO: -
  • Republic: -
  • Roger Roger: -
• Wave 2: 14/21 (67%, difference of 7)
  • Rebels: 3/4
  • Imperials: 3/4
  • Scum: 5/5 (+Minigguild TIE)
  • Resistance: 2/4
  • FO: 1/4
  • Republic: -
  • Roger Roger: -
• Wave 3: 22/33 (67%, difference of 11)
  • Rebels: 3/6
  • Imperials: 4/6 (+ Striker)
  • Scum: 6/7 (+Z95)
  • Resistance: 2/4
  • FO: 1/4
  • Republic: 3/3
  • Roger Roger: 3/3
• Wave 4: 30/37 (81%, difference of 7)
  • Rebels: 5/6 (+B-wing and Falcon)
  • Imperials: 5/7 (+Deci)
  • Scum: 6/7
  • Resistance: 3/5 (+Transport)
  • FO: 3/4 (+Silencer and /SF)
  • Republic: 4/4 (+ N1)
  • Roger Roger: 4/4 (+Hyena)

The relative availability of wave 3 is as good as wave 2, but the difference is larger. However this seems to be temporary as wave 4 (from what we know for now) brings it down to the same difference as wave 2 and a much better percentage.

This means you can be temporarily outraged that wave 3 will be not so fair, largely due to rebels, resistance and FO.

And inbefore "but now hyperspace has 37 different ships in wave 4!!!"

Seriously, who expected fewer?! It was always clear that we won't stay on 4 ships per faction in hyperspace. We don't even know yet whether there will be a rotation. But even if there will be, I strongly doubt that they cap it at 4 ships. So, going up to 5 already means 35 ships total. If they do something between 6 and 8 (which I personally expect if they really will rotate) then we should see a total of 42 to 56 ships at a time.

This move by ffg is really...weird

now, I don’t think this ruins hyperspace in any way, it’s not quite as huge of an add on as it feels

scum was getting the z95 this wave anyway so adding that made sense, so it’s really the Star viper, which is a fun and interesting ship, as well really has only one pilot who has proven anything so far, you can kind of say they got Guri and the z95

rebels got the bwing and a wing, which we know the b wing is on its way so that makes sense, and well the a wing...doesn’t make sense really but the good part is that right now it doesn’t really add anything that significant to rebels on its own..oh and as for the rest of the u wing pilots...I think that was sort of a correction because it didn’t make sense to not allow access to those

empire is sort of the weirdest one because they didn’t get the deci, which we know is on its way, that sort of breaks the pattern...now they really mostly added fel and the bomber just because turr isn’t much and the generic interceptor sort of lines up with the striker so it’s not too big of a shake up, the bomber is a bit odd as well as it’s clearly not as efficient as before and i kind of feel like it might serve as a hefty single filler or a squad completely comprised of bombers(and I have no idea how good that actually is yet)

Now I understand the availability argument for new players, but with the added balance of points adjustments I think new players are not kept out of competitive if they can access these ships right away, as many great competitive squads are possible without those models. even with overpriced old versions on amazon this game is still much cheaper then in the first edition world where you basically had to buy everything just for singles of certain upgrades

My biggest problem with this flood of new stuff in hyperspace is...why now? The game felt great and the new factions alone plus the z95 would have shaken up the meta plenty and kept everything plenty interesting, then in 2 months you could add these extra ships to wave 4 and I feel like we all would have not cared so much (although bomber and interceptor still doesn’t make sense lol) or just give us the b wing now and deci now and I also think we would all just go..well ok all is fine. But this flood of really unexplained add on as wave 3 drops is just odd and probably badly timed

I think I’m fine with everything but the timing. I really thought hyperspace would stay the same (with new factions) until the break between seasons and points rebalance.

I’m in a community where we didn’t get any new regulars and there was starting to be a format rift between the people that want to travel (hyperspace) and the people that want to just show up to local stuff with all of their toys (extended). The latter group seems pretty happy.

22 minutes ago, TheOz said:

This move by ffg is really...weird

now, I don’t think this ruins hyperspace in any way, it’s not quite as huge of an add on as it feels

scum was getting the z95 this wave anyway so adding that made sense, so it’s really the Star viper, which is a fun and interesting ship, as well really has only one pilot who has proven anything so far, you can kind of say they got Guri and the z95

rebels got the bwing and a wing, which we know the b wing is on its way so that makes sense, and well the a wing...doesn’t make sense really but the good part is that right now it doesn’t really add anything that significant to rebels on its own..oh and as for the rest of the u wing pilots...I think that was sort of a correction because it didn’t make sense to not allow access to those

empire is sort of the weirdest one because they didn’t get the deci, which we know is on its way, that sort of breaks the pattern...now they really mostly added fel and the bomber just because turr isn’t much and the generic interceptor sort of lines up with the striker so it’s not too big of a shake up, the bomber is a bit odd as well as it’s clearly not as efficient as before and i kind of feel like it might serve as a hefty single filler or a squad completely comprised of bombers(and I have no idea how good that actually is yet)

Now I understand the availability argument for new players, but with the added balance of points adjustments I think new players are not kept out of competitive if they can access these ships right away, as many great competitive squads are possible without those models. even with overpriced old versions on amazon this game is still much cheaper then in the first edition world where you basically had to buy everything just for singles of certain upgrades

Iconic movie ships added to the factions that have iconic movie ships ... and then something cool added to Scum to balance them up. Acknowledging that there is an incoming large release into the other factions across waves 3 and 4. It makes sense strategically, but I agree that the timing is odd.

4 hours ago, GreenDragoon said:

They never could though:

But the trajectory was meaningfully different.

We expected Wave 3 to add 6 new ships, all fully available, plus fill in two empty slots. Then, we expected Wave 4 to add three more new available ships, plus fill in almost all of the remaining gaps. Every faction but FO/Res, missing 1/2 respectively, was expected to be completely filled in by July.

Instead, the number of missing ships has gone up by four, and we've been given the meaningful threat that such rotations will keep happening more rapidly than ships can be re-released and we won't see a fully available hyperspace roster for years.

That's on top of the specific roster of ships being maybe not to people's liking. Barrage Bombers are kinda contentious, and Starvipers are a super-Legendsy ship and kind of seen as an "I came here to bid 15 points with Guri and move last" platform (rightly or wrongly).

As usual there is good and bad.

GOOD:

1. Strongly preferred movie ships were added for Rebel, Scum and Imperials (and seemingly main reason for a lot of complaints from the Extended crowd)
2. ... um....

BAD:

1. Timing is odd - product not available for new players, not even on the horizon in some cases
2. Concerns regarding balance...
3. Faction imbalance increased - so many more ships for Rebels, Imperials, SCUM than anything the other groups have

I'm really quite on the fence. I was initially very excited but the more I've looked the more concerned I've become.

21 minutes ago, svelok said:

That's on top of the specific roster of ships being maybe not to people's liking. Barrage Bombers are kinda contentious, and Starvipers are a super-Legendsy ship and kind of seen as an "I came here to bid 15 points with Guri and move last" platform (rightly or wrongly).

I don't think we have a good assessment of Barrage Bombers at their current points level. I also think big bid Guri is a sad fembot against Poe and Anakin and Vader and maybe Soontir, not even taking into account a 5 ship list that just might say "you have nowhere to barrel roll".

2 minutes ago, Biophysical said:

I don't think we have a good assessment of Barrage Bombers at their current points level. I also think big bid Guri is a sad fembot against Poe and Anakin and Vader and maybe Soontir, not even taking into account a 5 ship list that just might say "you have nowhere to barrel roll".

I don't actually mind Guri that much.

Barrage Bombers: Jonus and four Scimitars - all with barrage rockets, and even a 2 point bid for Rebel Beef matchups? Seems pretty good. Maybe not top tier, but that's pretty potent. They were pretty solid before when used well, don't see why they wouldn't be now.

This is really disappointing

20 minutes ago, svelok said:

But the trajectory was meaningfully different.

We expected Wave 3 to add 6 new ships, all fully available, plus fill in two empty slots. Then, we expected Wave 4 to add three more new available ships, plus fill in almost all of the remaining gaps. Every faction but FO/Res, missing 1/2 respectively, was expected to be completely filled in by July.

Instead, the number of missing ships has gone up by four, and we've been given the meaningful threat that such rotations will keep happening more rapidly than ships can be re-released and we won't see a fully available hyperspace roster for years.

That's on top of the specific roster of ships being maybe not to people's liking. Barrage Bombers are kinda contentious, and Starvipers are a super-Legendsy ship and kind of seen as an "I came here to bid 15 points with Guri and move last" platform (rightly or wrongly).

1) If you were right, which I don't agree with: How is any that a problem? You feel the need of using revealing language like "threat" and "won't see a fully available".

2) I don't agree with you because we always had missing ships and we never knew whether there would be rotation, or whether hyperspace would grow until it's extended, or anything in that direction. It was all speculation.

3) The specific roster adds popular movie ships and one scum ship to balance the worst, by far worst, faction a bit against the others.

1 hour ago, TheOz said:

This move by ffg is really...weird

1 hour ago, AEIllingworth said:

I think I’m fine with everything but the timing

56 minutes ago, Dreadai said:

but I agree that the timing is odd.

6 minutes ago, LagJanson said:

Timing is odd - product not available for new players, not even on the horizon in some cases

What better timing than the possibly largest mixup of meta because of two new factions being added? When you keep saying "timing", what do you guys really mean? Because there are different ways of understanding the word, and you probably don't agree on what part of the timing is odd.

Is it

• because we're in trials season?
• because there is a large gap between their inclusion in hyperspace and their re-release?
• something else?

Those are meaningfully different.

Makes perfect sense.

Get conversion players to help clear the shelves of 1.0 versions of ships that are about to get RE-released.

Falcon. A-wing. B.

Perfect sense.

1 minute ago, GreenDragoon said:

1) If you were right, which I don't agree with: How is any that a problem? You feel the need of using revealing language like "threat" and "won't see a fully available".

2) I don't agree with you because we always had missing ships and we never knew whether there would be rotation, or whether hyperspace would grow until it's extended, or anything in that direction. It was all speculation.

3) The specific roster adds popular movie ships and one scum ship to balance the worst, by far worst, faction a bit against the others.

1. How is it a problem that the game is less accessible to new players? I don't understand how that's a real question.

2. I don't get this either. You don't understand how going from "we don't know whether it's X or Y" to "we know that it is Y" might disappoint people?

5 minutes ago, LagJanson said:

Barrage Bombers: Jonus and four Scimitars - all with barrage rockets, and even a 2 point bid for Rebel Beef matchups? Seems pretty good. Maybe not top tier, but that's pretty potent. They were pretty solid before when used well, don't see why they wouldn't be now.

It's the Imperial version of 5Y. Very limited movement options, very beefy. I don't really have issues with either. I don't think either are the best squad in their factions.

1 minute ago, svelok said:

1. How is it a problem that the game is less accessible to new players? I don't understand how that's a real question.

I take it then that you were also really bothered by Wave 2 where a large amount of ships, particularly half of the popular Resistance faction and a majority of FO, was less accessible to new players?

6 minutes ago, svelok said:

2. I don't get this either. You don't understand how going from "we don't know whether it's X or Y" to "we know that it is Y" might disappoint people?

No, my point is that we still don't know. The introduction of a new faction is a freak event when looking at the whole life of X-wing 2.0. We know that. But if we were to only use what we've seen, then it would be a regular event as every wave introduced new factions.

That means we can be sure that it is going to change and the past 3 waves are not representative of what is going to happen in the future. A new possible trajectory is seen when comparing wave 3 and 4, where the number of missing ships is going down again. Why do you use the trajectory of the known freak events, but not the already visible trajectory of the known more regular event?

11 minutes ago, GreenDragoon said:

Is it

• because we're in trials season?
• because there is a large gap between their inclusion in hyperspace and their re-release?
• something else?

Those are meaningfully different.

I think it's because we are in trials season, but also because the ships aren't on rerelease yet. Both make the timing window make no sense.

11 minutes ago, GreenDragoon said:

What better timing than the possibly largest mixup of meta because of two new factions being added? When you keep saying "timing", what do you guys really mean? Because there are different ways of understanding the word, and you probably don't agree on what part of the timing is odd.

Is it

• because we're in trials season?
• because there is a large gap between their inclusion in hyperspace and their re-release?
• something else?

Those are meaningfully different.

Oh heck - I don't care about the trial season. My initial reaction was "GREAT!" because certain people who are play testers were being a bit arrogant about their chances in Trials based on their experiences with Wave III testing. They didn't see this coming.

Your second point though - yes. It's all about the timing of product availability.

Imperials got TIE Interceptors so I got what I wanted

I think it's pretty remarkable how unoffensive the ships being added are - Soontir Fel and Guri are are pretty wholesome as far as aces go. Vader crew and Biohexacrypt Codes being added are the only additions I worry about, but I'll withhold judgment on them.

11 minutes ago, Biophysical said:

It's the Imperial version of 5Y. Very limited movement options, very beefy. I don't really have issues with either. I don't think either are the best squad in their factions.

I agree with your take that it's very like 5Y. Harder to range control the bracket that barrage bombers have compared to the turret double tap of the Ys... the TIE Bombers are also a heck of a lot more accurate.

I think it's better than five Ys... but as I said, don't think it's going to be the top list in town when the dust settles.

2 minutes ago, LagJanson said:

As usual there is good and bad.

GOOD:

1. Strongly preferred movie ships were added for Rebel, Scum and Imperials (and seemingly main reason for a lot of complaints from the Extended crowd)
2. ... um....

BAD:

1. Timing is odd - product not available for new players, not even on the horizon in some cases
2. Concerns regarding balance...
3. Faction imbalance increased - so many more ships for Rebels, Imperials, SCUM than anything the other groups have

I'm really quite on the fence. I was initially very excited but the more I've looked the more concerned I've become.

More ships isn't always better. Resistance does just fine with 2 (or even just 1).

Imperials needed it to have some chance to break out of only being TIE Swarms.

Scum needed it too since the Z-95 is DOA.

B-Wings are cool. Having all of the U-Wing Pilots is cool.

2 minutes ago, Scott Pilgrim2 said:

More ships isn't always better. Resistance does just fine with 2 (or even just 1).

Imperials needed it to have some chance to break out of only being TIE Swarms.

Scum needed it too since the Z-95 is DOA.

B-Wings are cool. Having all of the U-Wing Pilots is cool.

You'll note I don't necessarily disagree with these points. In fact, most are in my #1 good point.

4 minutes ago, LagJanson said:

I agree with your take that it's very like 5Y. Harder to range control the bracket that barrage bombers have compared to the turret double tap of the Ys... the TIE Bombers are also a heck of a lot more accurate.

I think it's better than five Ys... but as I said, don't think it's going to be the top list in town when the dust settles.

I think that it is worse than 5 Ys just because it doesn't have ion control and 5 hull and 2 green lasts less than 8 HP and 1 green and they can't barrage after a 5k while Y Wings can still double tap.

1 minute ago, LagJanson said:

You'll note I don't necessarily disagree with these points. In fact, most are in my #1 good point.

Also wasn't disagreeing with your points except for the possible faction imbalance part - just adding my thoughts to your discussion.