2 minutes ago, Brunas said:

I just ordered...

2 servants of strife

1 vulture droid

1 sith infiltrator

1 guardian of the republic

1 aethersprite

1 ARC

... less than $200. Thanks atomic, now I feel spoiled, haha.

Pick a side!

Good Guys

or

Bad Guys

I did some more digging, comparing AAAAA to YYYYY. It is interestingly enough almost identical: 132 lists used Ywings, only 16 had 5 of them, 67 had exactly 1 per list.

That refutes my argument linking frequency to known effectiveness, and if not entirely then at least mostly. YYYYY is known to be a strong list, often called the meta boogey man - a title that it doesn't deserve at just 2.5% of all lists.

(The Aldershot trial is not included yet as the lists are largely missing. And the abyss trial is new on listfortress)

Maybe it's finally time to implement some form of archetype analysis

Just now, GreenDragoon said:

I did some more digging, comparing AAAAA to YYYYY. It is interestingly enough almost identical: 132 lists used Ywings, only 16 had 5 of them, 67 had exactly 1 per list.

That refutes my argument linking frequency to known effectiveness, and if not entirely then at least mostly. YYYYY is known to be a strong list, often called the meta boogey man - a title that it doesn't deserve at just 2.5% of all lists.

(The Aldershot trial is not included yet as the lists are largely missing. And the abyss trial is new on listfortress)

Maybe it's finally time to implement some form of archetype analysis

The boogeyman is whatever list i lost to last because my opponent lacks honor.

Just now, GreenDragoon said:

I did some more digging, comparing AAAAA to YYYYY. It is interestingly enough almost identical: 132 lists used Ywings, only 16 had 5 of them, 67 had exactly 1 per list.

That refutes my argument linking frequency to known effectiveness, and if not entirely then at least mostly. YYYYY is known to be a strong list, often called the meta boogey man - a title that it doesn't deserve at just 2.5% of all lists.

(The Aldershot trial is not included yet as the lists are largely missing. And the abyss trial is new on listfortress)

Maybe it's finally time to implement some form of archetype analysis

I think I got all the y-wing lists at Aldershot, there might have been one more. There were 3 5A lists, none made the cut.

8 minutes ago, Brunas said:

I just ordered...

2 servants of strife

1 vulture droid

1 sith infiltrator

1 guardian of the republic

1 aethersprite

1 ARC

... less than $200. Thanks atomic, now I feel spoiled, haha.

Only reason I haven't ordered CIS is that I am not sure how much I want.

The Phantom Menace is a good movie because it gave us Wave 3.

5 minutes ago, GreenDragoon said:

I did some more digging, comparing AAAAA to YYYYY. It is interestingly enough almost identical: 132 lists used Ywings, only 16 had 5 of them, 67 had exactly 1 per list.

That refutes my argument linking frequency to known effectiveness, and if not entirely then at least mostly.

Conversion rate matters, if not a lot of people play it, but it always makes the cut (esp early) it can still be discussed as a powerhouse list.

5 minutes ago, GreenDragoon said:

YYYYY is known to be a strong list, often called the meta boogey man - a title that it doesn't deserve at just 2.5% of all lists.

couldn't you argue that if anything the low occurrence of the list makes it a boogeyman? A scary monster that doesn't really exist that is used to scare children?

1 minute ago, jagsba said:

Conversion rate matters, if not a lot of people play it, but it always makes the cut (esp early) it can still be discussed as a powerhouse list. 

Yes, I'll look more into it tomorrow (I hope). But no more digging tonight.

1 minute ago, jagsba said:

couldn't you argue that if anything the low occurrence of the list makes it a boogeyman? A scary monster that doesn't really exist that is used to scare children?

Wait is YYYYY actually the Baba Yaga now?

X-Wings the best.

1 hour ago, viedit said:

Already there for me. Sort of. What about 3 T70's and Lulo all with crack. You want spike damage? That's how you get spike damage. Not with heroic.

3 heroic reds and Jess for 199?

1 hour ago, GreenDragoon said:

That refutes my argument linking frequency to known effectiveness, and if not entirely then at least mostly. YYYYY is known to be a strong list, often called the meta boogey man - a title that it doesn't deserve at just 2.5% of all lists.

I don't think it refutes your argument. I think it's just a data point. Lots and lots of people who would otherwise fly a known-effective list won't fly a suspected-boring or suspected-NPE list. You just need ancillary data. (Don't ask me how to get it.)

18 minutes ago, Ablazoned said:

3 heroic reds and Jess for 199?

Meh. I'd rather have my Nien, Lulo and two blacks all with crack. Better init and don't have to fly in a brick for Jess.

1 hour ago, Boom Owl said:

The boogeyman is whatever list i lost to last because my opponent lacks honor.

I beat 5Y this wknd by discarding honour. So I'm the boogeyman now.

52 minutes ago, Boom Owl said:

Wait is YYYYY actually the Baba Yaga now?

X-Wings the best.

In three days, it's going to be ARC-170 x4 or Aethersprite x5 if FFG prices them as aggressively as they did the RZ-2. Not because of the generics, but because of what you can bring with them. I'm basing this off of no evidence.

26 minutes ago, Ablazoned said:

3 heroic reds and Jess for 199?

I’m using that right now in a vassal thing... I’m unimpressed.

2 minutes ago, LagJanson said:

I’m using that right now in a vassal thing... I’m unimpressed.

it went undefeated in swiss in austin this weekend (including the obligatory top table final salvo). How he did it? no clue?

16 minutes ago, LagJanson said:

I’m using that right now in a vassal thing... I’m unimpressed.

I'd much rather have my variant. Or nien/ello/lulo/Bastian. Or Poe/Lulo/tallie/Bastian.

I just want more initiative and less formation needed.

And crack. Lots of crack to punch damage through when you need it.

1 hour ago, LagJanson said:

I’m using that right now in a vassal thing... I’m unimpressed.

Hmph.

1 hour ago, jagsba said:

it went undefeated in swiss in austin this weekend (including the obligatory top table final salvo). How he did it? no clue?

Very good play on his part, would be my counter.

16 minutes ago, Jeff Wilder said:

Hmph.

To be fair... your dice were hardly Heroic worthy, and my misplays looked brilliant when your misplays put you exactly where I shouldn’t have wanted you.

3 hours ago, GreenDragoon said:

I did some more digging, comparing AAAAA to YYYYY. It is interestingly enough almost identical: 132 lists used Ywings, only 16 had 5 of them, 67 had exactly 1 per list.

That refutes my argument linking frequency to known effectiveness, and if not entirely then at least mostly. YYYYY is known to be a strong list, often called the meta boogey man - a title that it doesn't deserve at just 2.5% of all lists.

(The Aldershot trial is not included yet as the lists are largely missing. And the abyss trial is new on listfortress)

Maybe it's finally time to implement some form of archetype analysis

I think something you might be overlooking is just how many people are able to put 5 awings on the board. I'd want to play the list a few times before I took it to a tournament, but I'd have to borrow ships from 3 different people to run it. And they're all using them in their own lists.

I played AAAAA twice in KY, once in swiss and once in top 4. Both times my 3A + Poe list, due to actually having a meaningful bid and high I pilots, let me move 2nd and isolate and systematically rek those A-wings without being in any real danger. Also trickshot+crackshot combo > heroic. It was the only list to go 6-0 though in swiss, and I know it got runner up in OH so there is something there. I just don't believe that its a resistance list thats better than other resistance lists.

2 hours ago, LagJanson said:

Very good play on his part, would be my counter.

He's a very good player, so yeah.

2 hours ago, powersink said:

I think something you might be overlooking is just how many people are able to put 5 awings on the board. I'd want to play the list a few times before I took it to a tournament, but I'd have to borrow ships from 3 different people to run it. And they're all using them in their own lists.

I think this is very much the case.

Most people who came from 1.0 with Imperials will have 6 TIE/ln. and a conversion kit and a core gets you there. So people have the pieces.

5 RZ2 requires buying 5 2.0 expansions with no conversion possible. That’s $100 to run one very specific list. That is a huge disincentive, and places severe downward pressure on frequency. Plus you have to really commit to a ship you may not like. Plus distribution can mean scarcity for people who may want to buy 5.

5 Ys are almost as bad. Sure most Rebel players have one or more. But to convert? Two kits to get 5. Or buy 5 2.0 Y’s. Or mix and match.

Honestly I think the outlay, to run one very specific list, is why. I can but 2-3 of most ships and be confident to be able to fit them in a variety of lists. One in any. But 5, where there is exactly one, or very nearly so, list that can run it? That’s a tall order.

5 hours ago, powersink said:

I think something you might be overlooking is just how many people are able to put 5 awings on the board. I'd want to play the list a few times before I took it to a tournament, but I'd have to borrow ships from 3 different people to run it. And they're all using them in their own lists.

Yes I'm aware, I've made the same point some time ago. But that's why the comparison to 5Y or Tripsilon is interesting.

I expected that more people would play 5Y because it is 'known' to be better, has a lower barrier, and is easier to play.

But the two are nearly the same. I might be underestimating the barrier for 5Y, or social stigmas, or how much less fun it is and how that's valued. But I thought that regionals are less affected by those and the 'will to win' is more accepted, including list choice.