Just now, Hiemfire said:

What other Trick Shot carrying platforms are an issue? Heroic being adjusted only affects Resistance, upping Trick Shot ripples out into the other factions. Upping Heroic by 1 and doing as Green Dragoon suggested (+1 for the generics, +2 for the limiteds) should reign it in a bit. Nerfing all factions' choices because 1 faction has a slightly problematic synergy is effectively no different than ignoring the problem.

Scum falcon still has trick shot stapled to it. It's just almost a requirement to pump up the damage output of that ship. I'm not sure it's an "issue" though.

The worst offenders got hit in other ways. Trick shot, proton torp, han gunner Kavil was brutal. But several pieces of that build got hit so it's really not a big deal. Same with proton torp Wedge. Not seeing many torp Wedges now so not a big deal.

1 minute ago, Micanthropyre said:

Even the pro-RZ-2 people suggest Lulo is undercosted and all of your other points are satisfied that low-hp generics are likely overcosted across the board.

Hence why I didn't quote anybody.

My thoughts are

- Rz2 generics are fine at current costs.

Striker generics should get a massive axe to their costs. 32 sentinels. 34 scouts

Named strikers are good at their costs

Named A's should be priced like named strikers. (42 tallie, 44 lulo)

But it's all relative. A baseline for Fair has to be determined.

1 minute ago, viedit said:

Scum falcon still has trick shot stapled to it. It's just almost a requirement to pump up the damage output of that ship. I'm not sure it's an "issue" though.

The worst offenders got hit in other ways. Trick shot, proton torp, han gunner Kavil was brutal. But several pieces of that build got hit so it's really not a big deal. Same with proton torp Wedge. Not seeing many torp Wedges now so not a big deal.

Scum Falcon is going to always have Trick Shot stapled to it regardless of the cost (2 die base primary on a large base that takes up a minimum of 1/4th of a list bare, as you more or less pointed out). If Trick Shot goes up too much (possibly any more at all) it'll be stapled to it in the hangar instead of on the mat.

12 minutes ago, theBitterFig said:

Overall, I don't mind living in a world where Talents nowhere near as good as 1e.

Yeah, this is a lot of it. Talents are where lots of passive dice mods live, and I think a healthy game leaves "nothing" as an equally viable talent slot option to "something".

We're already pretty close to that point. There's just a few outliers (once of which is Juke, which may never be balanced without also being a dead card).

17 minutes ago, Hiemfire said:

What other Trick Shot carrying platforms are an issue?

Every turret ship? It's a pretty game warping upgrade, honestly - as mentioned, would the Scum Falcon have had a 2-primary if Trick Shot didn't exist?

Its only going to get stronger with dust clouds, too, because while the Trick Shot ship gains a dice to give the defender a dice plus evade, the return shot without Trick shot is much less likely to even scratch paint.

16 minutes ago, svelok said:

Yeah, this is a lot of it. Talents are where lots of passive dice mods live, and I think a healthy game leaves "nothing" as an equally viable talent slot option to "something".

We're already pretty close to that point. There's just a few outliers (once of which is Juke, which may never be balanced without also being a dead card).

Every turret ship? It's a pretty game warping upgrade, honestly - as mentioned, would the Scum Falcon have had a 2-primary if Trick Shot didn't exist?

Its only going to get stronger with dust clouds, too, because while the Trick Shot ship gains a dice to give the defender a dice plus evade, the return shot without Trick shot is much less likely to even scratch paint.

I mean the ships that aren't A-Wings that are going to use trick shot are pretty much just turrets and you generally only run 1 per squad. So Scum Han effectively goes up one more point? NBD there.

12 minutes ago, svelok said:

Every turret ship? It's a pretty game warping upgrade, honestly - as mentioned, would the Scum Falcon have had a 2-primary if Trick Shot didn't exist? 

Digging from memory on how Scum ships are set up stat/cost wise in relation to the other 4 factions not including pilot abilities? Yes. Scum pays more for similar base capabilities then the others do. The balancing factor is the tricks the uniques bring in. Without those Scum ships, exempting the Firespray are second hand trash and fillers.

21 minutes ago, Hiemfire said:

Digging from memory on how Scum ships are set up stat/cost wise in relation to the other 4 factions not including pilot abilities? Yes. Scum pays more for similar base capabilities then the others do. The balancing factor is the tricks the uniques bring in. Without those Scum ships, exempting the Firespray are second hand trash and fillers.

Just more proof as to why what the Scum faction really needs are better illicits. You know, the defining element of the faction.

1 minute ago, Dr Moneypants said:

Just more proof as to why what the Scum faction really needs are better illicits. You know, the defining element of the faction.

That the ships that have the slot are paying extra for just to have it be empty...

4 minutes ago, Dr Moneypants said:

Just more proof as to why what the Scum faction really needs are better illicits. You know, the defining element of the faction.

Boba plus glitterstim when?

2 minutes ago, Scott Pilgrim2 said:

Boba plus glitterstim when?

Glitterstim at Leia prices when?

1 minute ago, svelok said:

Glitterstim at Leia prices when?

Now pls.

4 minutes ago, svelok said:

Glitterstim at Leia prices when?

So free? That's what she is at 2 points basically... Honestly, I hope the upgrade does not come back.

What about if gliterstim had 2 non recoverable charges and said "you man spend one charge to change one focus result to a hit or evade result"?

How much would you pay for this card? 2?

3 hours ago, GreenDragoon said:

Give it a try then, 5 Awings without Lulo. Should be easy for you as they are so unfair.

Yup. These guys are gonks if they think 5A is a problem.

THEY'RE Aaaaaaa-WINGS.

Watch the complaining start when people start seeing 4 Heroic T70s after Republic drops and everyone needs burst damage to deal with all the ARCs.

6 minutes ago, Bucknife said:

Yup. These guys are gonks if they think 5A is a problem.

THEY'RE Aaaaaaa-WINGS.

Watch the complaining start when people start seeing 4 Heroic T70s after Republic drops and everyone needs burst damage to deal with all the ARCs.

The complaining never ends. Someone even said it was 1.0 level abusive. Ha, people. SMH.

1 hour ago, theBitterFig said:

//

Trick Shot should totally go up. Adding a die is more powerful than rerolling a die, and it's probably easier to trigger than Predator. If it's easier and stronger, it ought to cost more.

//

Trick shot is the turrets talent... So far, I feel like it's the ONLY talent for large base turrets, making it's costing really difficult.

If they could have costing for an upgrade based on ship size and/or arc-type, that could be a reasonable fix, I think.

\\

Heroic is fine.

The vote is still up on the other faction talents, but in my opinion, if FACTION DEFINING cards aren't at least a little under-costed, then we're stuck with bland Xwing 1.0.

Ruthless should probably be free.

Selfless, 1.

5 minutes ago, AceWing said:

The complaining never ends.

Let us strive towards a more perfect game-state!

No really though, I don't know or care much about extended these days but Hyperspace is really fun even and like 95% fine if there's some dubious balance mixed in there at times.

2 minutes ago, Bucknife said:

The vote is still up on the other faction talents, but in my opinion, if FACTION DEFINING cards aren't at least a little under-costed, then we're stuck with bland Xwing 1.0.

Ruthless should probably be free.

Sounds radical, I'm in.

2 minutes ago, Bucknife said:

Selfless, 1. 

Oh **** I'm out eject eject

5 minutes ago, Bucknife said:

Trick shot is the turrets talent... So far, I feel like it's the ONLY talent for large base turrets, making it's costing really difficult.

If they could have costing for an upgrade based on ship size and/or arc-type, that could be a reasonable fix, I think.

\\

Heroic is fine.

The vote is still up on the other faction talents, but in my opinion, if FACTION DEFINING cards aren't at least a little under-costed, then we're stuck with bland Xwing 1.0.

Ruthless should probably be free.

Selfless, 1.

Ruthless being free isn't the worst idea, as the price is paid by your other ships.

As for selfless costing only one, I realize that is is your opinion and opinions are entirely subjective. That said, you are objectively wrong. 😉

12 minutes ago, Bucknife said:

Yup. These guys are gonks if they think 5A is a problem.

THEY'RE Aaaaaaa-WINGS.

Watch the complaining start when people start seeing 4 Heroic T70s after Republic drops and everyone needs burst damage to deal with all the ARCs.

I don't think 5As is a problem as a list. What is a problem are certain pilots that can exist as filler level points not only in 5As, but also in every other Resistance list. Lulo needs to be a mid 40s point pilot and Talli a low 40s similar to the named strikers. All other As could go up by just 1-2 pts and you could probably still run a 5As list just fine, just obviously wouldn't be as powerful as it is now. It goes back to the idea that there shouldn't be "auto-includes" because of their cheap cost whether it's upgrades or pilots themselves. Lulo at this point is an auto include in Resistance lists.

11 minutes ago, Bucknife said:

Ruthless should probably be free.

Selfless, 1.

Fearless shouldn't exist...

Just now, Hiemfire said:

Fearless shouldn't exist...

Hey! Fearless is fine.

Couldn't you tell? My omission meant that SCUM IS PERFECT.

Just now, Bucknife said:

Hey! Fearless is fine.

Couldn't you tell? My omission meant that SCUM IS PERFECT.

Unless it is on a Mando or a squad with Serissu it is playing Russian Roulette with a loaded Glock. 3 points for an ability that effectively reads "Go kill yourself"...

26 minutes ago, Bucknife said:

Yup. These guys are gonks if they think 5A is a problem.

THEY'RE Aaaaaaa-WINGS.

Watch the complaining start when people start seeing 4 Heroic T70s after Republic drops and everyone needs burst damage to deal with all the ARCs.

Already there for me. Sort of. What about 3 T70's and Lulo all with crack. You want spike damage? That's how you get spike damage. Not with heroic.

Just now, Hiemfire said:

Unless it is on a Mando or a squad with Serissu it is playing Russian Roulette with a loaded Glock. 3 points for an ability that effectively reads "Go kill yourself"...

K, fine.

Fearless should be 1 as well.

There. Happy?

No seriously...I totally forgot it was 3 points for fearless... Definitely should be 1 or 2 in order to see more play.

I just ordered...

2 servants of strife

1 vulture droid

1 sith infiltrator

1 guardian of the republic

1 aethersprite

1 ARC

... less than $200. Thanks atomic, now I feel spoiled, haha.