ooooh, graph paper and assumptions, I love it.

(protip: if you press edit and double click the image you can adjust the size)

Personally I'm more choosing nr 4 or 5 and never get up there...

28 minutes ago, Biophysical said:

I think part of what makes the Silencer weird is that it's not easily compared to other ships. The 3 AGI with 6 HP is a rare defensive profile, rarer still in that it's mated to a movement profile associated with lighter, weaker ships, and of course it hits pretty hard. This isn't a combination we have a lot of experience with. Defenders are fast and tough, but don't move half as well as Silencers. A-wings and Interceptors move, but don't hit as hard and can't sustain damage. T70s are about as tough, and hit reasonably hard, but can't hit hard and move like the Silencer due to dial and linked actions, and that extra green die makes a big difference at Range 3, especially against the common 2 dice shots that are emerging in Hyperspace.

It's very capable, but mostly restricted to 3 ship lists, getting 4 ships only if you have two pretty light ships. Consequently it has to do a lot of work, and it probably has to do that work in a few different ways.

The Silencer's place in 2.0 reminds me a lot of the early interceptor in 1.0, at least in terms of how it fits into a list and plays -- with the exception that it isn't going to pop in one shot. I guess what I mean is that it is a very maneuverable ship that is overpriced (if only slightly) and, because of that, will require a high skill level, practice, and good play to get the most out of it. But unlike a more traditional jouster that might be overpriced, the Silencer does allow for a player to get more out of it.

The T-70 is a good point of comparison because I think that the very comparable in durability, but the Silencers cost around six points more in general. For those six points they're getting a better dial and autothrusters, so you really need to leverage those two elements to get value comparable to the T-70. That said, it's probably worth noting that T-70s are seeing more use for their unique pilots and abilities the emphasize action economy while unique silencer pilots don't have nearly as strong abilities. IE, they aren't necessarily costed well at their base either, though that's tough to tell because RZ2s are just a much better generic option right now.

Just now, AlexW said:

The Silencer's place in 2.0 reminds me a lot of the early interceptor in 1.0, at least in terms of how it fits into a list and plays -- with the exception that it isn't going to pop in one turn. I guess what I mean is that it is a very maneuverable ship that is overpriced (if only slightly) and, because of that, will require a high skill level, practice, and good play to get the most out of it. But unlike a more traditional jouster that might be overpriced, the Silencer does allow for a player to get more out of it.

The T-70 is a good point of comparison because I think that the very comparable in durability, but the Silencers cost six points more pretty much across the board. For those six points they're getting a better dial and autothrusters, so you really need to leverage those two elements to get value comparable to the T-70. That said, it's probably worth noting that T-70s are seeing more use for their unique pilots and abilities the emphasize action economy while unique silencer pilots don't have nearly as strong abilities. IE, they aren't necessarily costed well at their base either, though that's tough to tell because RZ2s are just a much better generic option right now.

My big comparison is Kylo vs Luke vs Vader. Vader with Afterburners is 5 points cheaper and has more consistent offense. Luke doesn't reposition as well, but is 14 points cheaper and has infinite Force. Is the dial, a green die, and autothrusters worth 14 more points than Luke? Is the dial, native boost and 1 extra hp worth 5 more points than Vader? I am really having a hard time answering yes to either of those.

7 minutes ago, Scott Pilgrim2 said:

My big comparison is Kylo vs Luke vs Vader. Vader with Afterburners is 5 points cheaper and has more consistent offense. Luke doesn't reposition as well, but is 14 points cheaper and has infinite Force. Is the dial, a green die, and autothrusters worth 14 more points than Luke? Is the dial, native boost and 1 extra hp worth 5 more points than Vader? I am really having a hard time answering yes to either of those.

Yeah, in a comparison of force users, though I was more trying to compare the ships generally. Also of note in your comparison, I have played games against Kylo (haven't run him myself yet) and his ability is also pretty much non-existent, whereas the other two regularly leverage theirs.

13 minutes ago, AlexW said:

Yeah, in a comparison of force users, though I was more trying to compare the ships generally. Also of note in your comparison, I have played games against Kylo (haven't run him myself yet) and his ability is also pretty much non-existent, whereas the other two regularly leverage theirs.

This.

Kylo has an almost useless ability on a fighter platform; it’s stupid outside of crew. Give him one like Wedge’s or Luke’s? Then he’d be a solid Ace, especially at an I6, as he really should be. Kylo is paying for stuff he doesn’t have, expected to do things he can’t really do. The fear of his untested gameplay threat with his dial and linked actions terrorized the 2.0 designers to the point they made him an overpriced mid-level “Ace” with a hard ceiling (Initiative lock and almost never used pilot ability), unlike the other SW universe characters.

Only few t70 pilots imo have good abilities for their cost: Bastian, maybe Poe, maybe Pava, maybe Wexley. Not Nien and definitely not Ello.

Silencer are probably even worse thought... Hate Kylo is decently tanky at least, but it's weird you are generally better off never triggering his ability

38 minutes ago, clanofwolves said:

Kylo has an almost useless ability on a fighter platform

Force and force Regen with hate on a 3 agility platform with built in repo is an AMAZEBALLS pilot ability are you kidding me?

Kylo is amazing. Silencers are incredible. High Init Force Users should have mediocre pilot abilities.

2 minutes ago, Boom Owl said:

High Init Force Users should have mediocre pilot abilities.

Except all of them (released so far, not counting some of the Republic spoilers) have flat out amazing abilities?

I'm fine with Kylo being PS 5, it was a good call to balance out the crazy maneuverability of the chassis and SN especially pre points nerf. But his pilot ability just plain sucks now, not even mediocre or niche, it's just plain bad. I think I've used it once out of well over double digit Kylo games?

2 minutes ago, Makaze said:

Except all of them (released so far, not counting some of the Republic spoilers) have flat out amazing abilities?

I'm fine with Kylo being PS 5, it was a good call to balance out the crazy maneuverability of the chassis and SN especially pre points nerf. But his pilot ability just plain sucks now, not even mediocre or niche, it's just plain bad. I think I've used it once out of well over double digit Kylo games?

It's easier to use that ability when there are only 3 enemy ships to fly against. All the same, given the high number of ships and so few of them consequential enough by themselves to show the darkside, the ability is useless now. It only really meant something when Kylo could afford to take Pro Torps, but all his favorite tools have jumped in price with them.

Has anakin already been spoiled? I don't remember but just in case I'll translate his ability.

"After you fully execute a manouver, if there is an enemy in your front arc at r0-1 or in your bullseye at r0-3 you may spend a force to remove a stress"

Ps 6, 3 force tokens

33 minutes ago, player3010587 said:

It's easier to use that ability when there are only 3 enemy ships to fly against. All the same, given the high number of ships and so few of them consequential enough by themselves to show the darkside, the ability is useless now. It only really meant something when Kylo could afford to take Pro Torps, but all his favorite tools have jumped in price with them.

It's not even so much the pro torps issue, it's that none of the pilot crits are as impactful as the 1.0 blinded or PS0. Sure panicked can in theory be nice in some cases but mostly against other acey ships and there are a litany of other crits that are as bad or worse. There have been a couple times when I could have used it, had the force nothing else to spend it on, and was going to regen it anyway but... why bother panicking a Y-wing? So triggering it isn't the problem, it's that it's rarely/barely worth it even when you can

3 minutes ago, Sunitsa said:

Has anakin already been spoiled? I don't remember but just in case I'll translate his ability.

"After you fully execute a manouver, if there is an enemy in your front arc at r0-1 or in your bullseye at r0-3 you may spend a force to remove a stress"

Ps 6, 3 force tokens

That sounds like a very good choice for an ability on an i6 3force user? It's not overwhelmingly good, but it rewards actual good flying (and not the fake hurdurr i6 repositioning aren't-I-great).

Just now, GreenDragoon said:

That sounds like a very good choice for an ability on an i6 3force user? It's not overwhelmingly good, but it rewards actual good flying (and not the fake hurdurr i6 repositioning aren't-I-great).

I mean... does it, though? A little, but it's i6...

7 minutes ago, Sunitsa said:

Has anakin already been spoiled? I don't remember but just in case I'll translate his ability.

"After you fully execute a manouver, if there is an enemy in your front arc at r0-1 or in your bullseye at r0-3 you may spend a force to remove a stress"

Ps 6, 3 force tokens

As noted in my thread, I believe he hands out a stress token instead.

2 minutes ago, Tlfj200 said:

I mean... does it, though? A little, but it's i6...

It rewards directly what you choose on your dial. And it is mainly made for red maneuvers, so if he is wrong he will have a problem. Not big because of the 3 force, but still somewhat.

9 minutes ago, MegaSilver said:

As noted in my thread, I believe he hands out a stress token instead.

He just remove the stress, I'm 100% sure (unless ffg failed again at providing their European publishers the right files to translate.. .)

3 minutes ago, Sunitsa said:

He just remove the stress, I'm 100% sure (unless ffg failed again at providing their European publishers the right files to translate.. .)

Wait, how did you get that info?

Just now, MegaSilver said:

Wait, how did you get that info?

Don't ask questions like that! Those that are too curious tend to disappear, never to be seen again.

3 minutes ago, LagJanson said:

Don't ask questions like that! Those that are too curious tend to disappear, never to be seen again.

Yup.

I proxied Super Delta Force Anakin recently. Its incredibly dumb and probably gonna be $$$!

Legit feels like Soontir with Force Charges and enough HP to make mistakes.

Let me specify: I think Anakin's ability does not make him more broken.

But he is ridiculous enough as he is, no argument from me there.

1 hour ago, Sunitsa said:

Only few t70 pilots imo have good abilities for their cost: Bastian, maybe Poe, maybe Pava, maybe Wexley. Not Nien and definitely not Ello.

Silencer are probably even worse thought... Hate Kylo is decently tanky at least, but it's weird you are generally better off never triggering his ability

No, they aren't all great (though I've seen Nien used really well), but it was a comparison to Silencers. They all have a focus on action efficiency, which is really where they were trailing the silencers.

1 hour ago, Ablazoned said:

Force and force Regen with hate on a 3 agility platform with built in repo is an AMAZEBALLS pilot ability are you kidding me?

Yeah, all that is sweet! Vader can get all that and a great pilot ability, too.

39 minutes ago, Tlfj200 said:

I mean... does it, though? A little, but it's i6...

surely no one would spend 36 points to be able to reposition before moving to make it even more likely...

Not when they could have a Republic Quadjumper instead!