7 minutes ago, Biophysical said:

The real problem is 1.0 was a horrible card game, because unlike a card game you got all your resources from turn 1 and you knew what the opponent had, so risk management and bluffing were largely absent because dials were the mechanism where those were dealt with and for a ton of lists dials barely mattered.

You know how awful and degenerate things were when double jamming Vermeil was consodered wholesome because it used an arc to completely bend people over a barrel.

In my humble opinion the list building aspect was not the problematic part of 1.0.

It was more about those years of bad design decisions and layers of broken stuff, which needed to be countered by other broken stuff.

Also, "dials didn't matter in 1.0" is a meme now, but a false one..

I don't really like the deckbuilding/cardgame aspect of this game, since I really only got into this game in the first place since I liked the minis.

But I definitely think that was an aspect of 1.0 that's decreased in 2.0. I think it's a good thing personally, but I can see why there are people who don't agree. Honestly X-Wing isn't a terrible card game, I'd just rate it a lot lower on the list of "best card games of all time" than on the list of "best mini games of all time"

1 minute ago, baranidlo said:

Also, "dials didn't matter in 1.0" is a meme now, but a false one..

Eh, palp, auto thrusters, advanced sensors, PTL, double reposition and PS11 coordinated boosts took away some of the think from dial decisions.

2 minutes ago, viedit said:

Eh, palp, auto thrusters, advanced sensors, PTL, double reposition and PS11 coordinated boosts took away some of the think from dial decisions.

Yes dials mattered a bunch less in 1.0 than they do now in 2.0, but it's not like they didn't matter at all..

1 minute ago, Kieransi said:

I don't really like the deckbuilding/cardgame aspect of this game, since I really only got into this game in the first place since I liked the minis.

But I definitely think that was an aspect of 1.0 that's decreased in 2.0. I think it's a good thing personally, but I can see why there are people who don't agree. Honestly X-Wing isn't a terrible card game, I'd just rate it a lot lower on the list of "best card games of all time" than on the list of "best mini games of all time"

The definition of X-Wing as a card game is just because it, y'know, has cards... but "miniatures with abilities that let them cheat and can be to a degree interchanged" describes stuff like Warhammer, too.

It's a very useful shorthand to have, but not really if you read into it literally. X-Wing's cards and 40k's codexes are functionally pretty similar.

29 minutes ago, Biophysical said:

double jamming Vermeil

was a monster

13 minutes ago, baranidlo said:

Yes dials mattered a bunch less in 1.0 than they do now in 2.0, but it's not like they didn't matter at all..

To nearly the lowest possible extent, yes.

15 minutes ago, Tlfj200 said:

To nearly the lowest possible extent, yes.

I will say, though, I got some perverse satisfaction from randomly spinning Kylo's dial every turn and still being in a mostly fine position.

28 minutes ago, Boom Owl said:

was a monster

WITH white hard turns. I am not sure what I miss more in 1.0 - how stupid persistent double jamming was or the Reaper have white hard turns.

8 minutes ago, Scott Pilgrim2 said:

WITH white hard turns. I am not sure what I miss more in 1.0 - how stupid persistent double jamming was or the Reaper have white hard turns.

It was only a brief period of time but the main thing I learned is that Jam is an incredibly stupid action that should never actually be good. Also the more I run vermiel the more the red hard turns seem like a sometimes useful feature.

1 hour ago, baranidlo said:

Yes dials mattered a bunch less in 1.0 than they do now in 2.0, but it's not like they didn't matter at all..

I don't think any mildly serious person thinks dials didn't matter at all for power lists, its a figure of speach of the community in my experience. Dials just mattered soooooo much less for the big meta powerhouses than most other lists, and the consequences for dial selection that wasn't blindingly stupid were almost non-existent.

So Miranda's dial matters because she doesn't want to land on a rock or bump or fly off the board, and maybe it's suboptimal if you ended up with an obstacle between you and a ship you wanted to kill, but that's nothing compared to most other lists. Throw in Ghost-Fenn, and bumping and landing on asteroids no longer were total bonehead moves.

https://goo.gl/forms/adXlUPQ1TZ6l5fpC2

Pls Gib white turn+2Agi Reapers. Also please let me have 4 copies of Vermiel.

11 minutes ago, Kaptin Krunch said:

Pls Gib white turn+2Agi Reapers. Also please let me have 4 copies of Vermiel.

If you could spam uniques, 4xVermeil does sound sexy,

27 minutes ago, Kaptin Krunch said:

Pls Gib white turn+2Agi Reapers. Also please let me have 4 copies of Vermiel.

I think one of the reasons it took many people this long to try 2.0 reapers is they played 1.0 reapers.

i fortunately did not have this problem. Never had a problem converting to 2.0 jam, and can’t miss the white turns.

3 minutes ago, Tlfj200 said:

I think one of the reasons it took many people this long to try 2.0 reapers is they played 1.0 reapers.

i fortunately did not have this problem. Never had a problem converting to 2.0 jam, and can’t miss the white turns.

Also pre point adjust proton torps and extended...

4 hours ago, viedit said:

Technically heroic is the "dice variance" mitigation. How much of a bump would strikers get if they got access to that card for a single point?

I need a drooling reaction, because I’m drooling over how much I want that.

1 hour ago, Tlfj200 said:

I think one of the reasons it took many people this long to try 2.0 reapers is they played 1.0 reapers.

i fortunately did not have this problem. Never had a problem converting to 2.0 jam, and can’t miss the white turns.

I played 1.0 Reapers a ton, even did well taking them to the first tournaments I ever went to.

But I fly the heck out of them in 2.0 too. But I was also an oddball in my ship selection in late 1.0. Never flying the x7, preferring the /d, never flying, or even buying, a SF, running Interceptors still, flying crazy bombers despite them being ‘not good’, and basically flying all the stuff considered bad and doing well anyhow.

Those auto mods like expertise? Never used it. Basically every single card considered NPE or unfair I didn’t use, and flying single arced ships that didn’t use VI and essentially using 2.0 style lists in 1.0.

Honestly my dilettante nature and hipster list building style has served me well. When you are constantly flying weird things and trying new lists, the changes to ships don’t make a huge splash.

And, yeah, Reapers are still super solid.

Vermeil is the same init as a sigma ace...he also fits with a 1pt talent along with 2 juke sigma's and a trickshot sigma...his ability synergizes with jam, which synergizes with juke...medium base is a cool blocking size that doesn't interfere with candy canes...

52 minutes ago, player3010587 said:

Vermeil is the same init as a sigma ace...he also fits with a 1pt talent along with 2 juke sigma's and a trickshot sigma...his ability synergizes with jam, which synergizes with juke...medium base is a cool blocking size that doesn't interfere with candy canes...

And a clutch coordinate can help restart a lost Cloak / Evade cycle.

6 hours ago, Tlfj200 said:

can’t miss the white turns.

That's the issue I'm having. Any tips to keep getting shots while still making death troopers worth the points?

9 hours ago, Biophysical said:

I don't think any mildly serious person thinks dials didn't matter at all for power lists, its a figure of speach of the community in my experience. Dials just mattered soooooo much less for the big meta powerhouses than most other lists, and the consequences for dial selection that wasn't blindingly stupid were almost non-existent.

So Miranda's dial matters because she doesn't want to land on a rock or bump or fly off the board, and maybe it's suboptimal if you ended up with an obstacle between you and a ship you wanted to kill, but that's nothing compared to most other lists. Throw in Ghost-Fenn, and bumping and landing on asteroids no longer were total bonehead moves.

It's pretty inaccurate and unfair to equate "1.0" = "Miranda and Ghost/Fenn".

The game had 6 years of life and there were plenty of lists where dials mattered a lot, even at the end of it's lifecycle.

Also, here's as unpopular opinion - dials matter much less in 2.0 than hype people here are willing to accept.

Supernaturals, Rebel bricks with "1 forward to victory", large base boosts, wide arcs, Proton Torps alphas, etc are all still a thing, you know..

1 hour ago, baranidlo said:

Also, here's as unpopular opinion - dials matter much less in 2.0 than hype people here are willing to accept.

Dials do matter. Best example is comparison between T65 X-wing and Khirax Fighter where 3hard > 1 hard and 3tallon > 2 tallon (Afterburners!) plus access to boost action separate one of the best chassis from almost unplayable one. (torpedo slot vs missile slot and hull/shield ratio doesn't matter that much)

Another example is RZ2 A-wing green bank3 which elevates chassis form good to very good.

There's more examples.

8 minutes ago, Oldpara said:

Dials do matter. Best example is comparison between T65 X-wing and Khirax Fighter where 3hard > 1 hard and 3tallon > 2 tallon (Afterburners!) plus access to boost action separate one of the best chassis from almost unplayable one. (torpedo slot vs missile slot and hull/shield ratio doesn't matter that much)

Another example is RZ2 A-wing green bank3 which elevates chassis form good to very good.

There's more examples.

I think you might have missed the beginning of the dispute, which was about how much selecting your maneuver on a dial mattered in 1.0 and how much it matters in 2.0.

So it's not about the quality of a ship dials, but about the maneuver selection process and how much or little strategy is behind it..