1 hour ago, Sunitsa said:

But who cares about that, I want details on that Luke Gunner thing!

He took a Luke gunner on his ARC which has absolutely no game effect just so there would be at least one at Coruscant thereby hosing anyone who voted under in that category.

Thus proving that the real prize isn't the friends made along the way but rather the satisfaction of screwing them over

*30pt force token

11 hours ago, catachanninja said:

What if you and the wife took a nice leasurely 2 hour motorcycle ride over?

Hahaha, as if she has ever ridden on it. She hates it.

Now I’m furtivey looking for a game of X-Wing on Mackinac island. I don’t think I will have much luck.

I like how the conversation morphed from Wedge vs. Vader to US vs. World.

I guess US is Wedge in this scenario? But US is also Wedge because US chose to take Wedge instead of Vader?

19 minutes ago, gennataos said:

I guess US is Wedge in this scenario?

"Cool, but ultimately not good enough"?

Ah, selective quoting. Noted.

I see we are doing the "Europe is inherently better than the US" Thing again.

4 hours ago, Sunitsa said:

EU>NA

/thread

It was obviously a meme fest, but it was an even field where everyone started with the same limitation. If imperials had the softer ones, no one was preventing anyone to play Empire (as many have actually done)

But who cares about that, I want details on that Luke Gunner thing!

He had Luke Gunner on an Arc, which has no rotate action.

And the bit that solidified it as a meme tournament was the Boba Ban.

6 hours ago, Sunitsa said:

And while Worlds had americans of all level of skill when the europeans there were almost all top players, it's hard to say the same for an invite-only event like Coruscant

@Tlfj200, what's the count on people 'earning' invites with ghost/fenn or miranda?

5 hours ago, Scott Pilgrim2 said:

I would bet that the top Euro players had better matchups against the lower tier US players because we had no idea WTF we are doing against anything that we haven't seen before.

this is a very good point. Accurately predicting the meta can be a huge factor in tournament results. It's not too hard to figure out what America is doing, listen the over abundance of podcasts we have or watch all the recorded matches available. If you want to get a sence of what europe is doing there's substantially less english speaking podcasts (and those are typically UK centric), and typically less tape. You can troll list juggler data, but unless you really parse data and look at matchups it's hard to glean if weird things are doing well because of luck, matchups, or if they're just undiscovered gold.

17 minutes ago, jagsba said:

this is a very good point. Accurately predicting the meta can be a huge factor in tournament results. It's not too hard to figure out what America is doing, listen the over abundance of podcasts we have or watch all the recorded matches available. If you want to get a since of what europe is doing there's substantially less english speaking podcasts (and those are typically UK centric), and typically less tape. You can troll list juggler data, but unless you really parse data and look at matchups it's hard to glean if weird things are doing well because of luck, matchups, or if they're just undiscovered gold.

That implies they actively look to find the meta, in many cases, they won't, because they don't care. The cost of attending is low enough that performance doesn't matter.

1 hour ago, Kaptin Krunch said:

And the bit that solidified it as a meme tournament was the Boba Ban.

Excuses, excuses. The fact that this tournament had unique squad building restrictions doesn’t mean that top players have not practiced hard and built highly optimized lists for it. Well, at least the Euro players did..

7 minutes ago, baranidlo said:

Excuses, excuses. The fact that this tournament had unique squad building restrictions doesn’t mean that top players have not practiced hard and built highly optimized lists for it. Well, at least the Euro players did..

But does that mean they are inherently better? No. Just that they cared, which, as shown earlier, US players by and large did not.

3 minutes ago, baranidlo said:

Excuses, excuses. The fact that this tournament had unique squad building restrictions doesn’t mean that top players have not practiced hard and built highly optimized lists for it. Well, at least the Euro players did..

That's the point. The Americans were drastically less likely to take it seriously. **** like conceding their final matches into the cut to go to the mall, no-turret luke gunner, the list goes on. No european is going to pay 1000's to fly over here to meme. The Americans showed up with friends after a car ride and messed around.

Coruscant has always been a meme format that people didn't care about comp results for. Off the top of your head, who are the last 3 winners? You don't know.

This coruscant is just attracting all of the glue eaters who are looking into a meme format way too much in an attempt to find lists that can carry them. That's the only thing making people bothering even remembering that this one happened.

55 minutes ago, Kaptin Krunch said:

Coruscant has always been a meme format that people didn't care about comp results for. Off the top of your head, who are the last 3 winners? You don't know.

Tom Forstner

The great Jeremy chamblee

A guy with a very European name, the kind we ask farmer to pronounce.

E. Z.

4 hours ago, Do I need a Username said:

I see we are doing the "Europe is inherently better than the US" Thing again.

It is not meant to be a troll topic. Though the occasional troll reply* is expected (and ignored by me).

My starting assumption has always been that the skill levels of the top US players (Duncan Howard, Nathan Eide) is equivalent to top European players.

Just been wondering whether we can draw any conclusions from the last few tournaments.

Consensus Answer: probably not.

"I agree."

*The troll replies are obviously reacting to the meme that "Europe is bad" etc that US podcasts like to say. Any sensible person understands that is light hearted trolling and not to be taken seriously.

1 hour ago, jagsba said:

Tom Forstner

The great Jeremy chamblee

A guy with a very European name, the kind we ask farmer to pronounce.

E. Z.

Actually it was Pole Piotr Kuc so fairly easy to pronounce. Ryan deserves better challenges

I hate myself for giving enough of a crap to jump into this thread. But:

18 hours ago, Tlfj200 said:

And Jesper couldn't handle all of those torpedoes, and totally didn't lose because of game state errors.

I will say that despite the illegal game state problems should most definitely have been flagged to a judge by any reasonable spectator, it was my choice to put my ships into the position where game state errors screwed me over. I made a couple of tactical errors in that game that I didn't make in my previous match against Roger. If my positioning had been more appropriate, the game state errors would have resulted in an inconvenience rather than an effective game loss. I'm not sure if I'm comfortable with the narrative that Roger Jeske only won because he forgot to deal his damage card faceup.

I also reject the suggestion that "US players weren't even trying". That's lazy and too broad of a stroke. With the exception of Chamblee, who was literally the one person in the room who had nothing to prove, each of my opponents went in hard. I will concede the point that many US players did probably feel like they had less to lose than most EU players, however.

And while I'm here, if anybody thinks 6-0 (okay okay, 5-0) and 2245 MOV with Fenn, Teroch, Palob is some kind of laughable anomaly from a "meme event" with no viable spot in the metagame, then you're an actual idiot.

On 10/8/2018 at 5:58 PM, jagsba said:

I learned Jesper was good. I knew he was good, but I didn't know he was THAT good.

Haha oh stop it you. No, please, keep going.

Since we're all just going to use results-based logic, and don't seem to be actually interested in the underlying answers:

Did you see Paul Heaver didn't even make day 2? What a washed-up has-been, amirite?

Wait, so if Worlds is 'FFGCon' and Coruscant is a 'useless meme tournament' then what are the big, melting pot tournaments that the US players do actually care about? Especially considering that GenCon for Nationals has quite the barrier of entry.

Apart from Krayt Cup, obv.

14 minutes ago, Tlfj200 said:

Since we're all just going to use results-based logic, and don't seem to be actually interested in the underlying answers:

Did you see Paul Heaver didn't even make day 2? What a washed-up has-been, amirite?

Not that I support that line of reasoning, but I didn‘t get the impression that Nathan wanted to throw any games?

I‘m not saying that there were no memers (if that‘s what we call the americans who didn‘t care), but I don‘t believe you if you claim that there were only memers.

1 minute ago, GreenDragoon said:

Not that I support that line of reasoning, but I didn‘t get the impression that Nathan wanted to throw any games?

I‘m not saying that there were no memers (if that‘s what we call the americans who didn‘t care), but I don‘t believe you if you claim that there were only memers.

Well, as long as Nathan was trying.

Dee is a name we know too - he looked like he was trying.

Again, the real answer is that drawing conclusions from a single tournament is limited, at best, and fruitless, at worse.


Combining the results of last worlds with Coruscant, a 2.0 tournament, seems similarly silly, for a whole host of reasons.


But by all means, continue. I'll help:


America sucks! And Our Greatest Champion, The Paul Heaver™ has Grown Old™. Long Live The King!

14 minutes ago, Tlfj200 said:

Well, as long as Nathan was trying.

Dee is a name we know too - he looked like he was trying.

13 minutes ago, Tlfj200 said:

Again, the real answer is that drawing conclusions from a single tournament is limited, at best, and fruitless, at worse.


Combining the results of last worlds with Coruscant, a 2.0 tournament, seems similarly silly, for a whole host of reasons.


But by all means, continue. I'll help:


America sucks! And Our Greatest Champion, The Paul Heaver™ has Grown Old™. Long Live The King!

Hold on. Drawing conclusions is too early, I agree.

But starting to collect info and use that as preliminary result to sanity-check theorycrafting has merit. That is not too early, but it has always an asterisk because of the restrictions. Still, Fenn Teroch Palob can clearly do some work, as can Redline. But more interesting than such details is how people stay in their comfort zones and (apparently?) stick to 3ship squads and upgrades. That was my main takeaway. I‘m curious how wrong it is.

And by the way: Saying America sucks is ridiculous. But claiming that nobody tried and Americans are just better anyway is ridiculous, too. The America suxx tm is mainly reactionary to the neverending ‚Europe sucks‘. Both are plain stupid.

Just now, GreenDragoon said:

Hold on. Drawing conclusions is too early, I agree.

But starting to collect info and use that as preliminary result to sanity-check theorycrafting has merit. That is not too early, but it has always an asterisk because of the restrictions. Still, Fenn Teroch Palob can clearly do some work, as can Redline. But more interesting than such details is how people stay in their comfort zones and (apparently?) stick to 3ship squads and upgrades. That was my main takeaway. I‘m curious how wrong it is.

And by the way: Saying America sucks is ridiculous. But claiming that nobody tried and Americans are just better anyway is ridiculous, too. The America suxx tm is mainly reactionary to the neverending ‚Europe sucks‘. Both are plain stupid.

I'm not saying no one tried.

But the analysis that the more limited people pay 3-5x more than "locals" probably tried harder.

Also, to be blunt, I don't really care how hard the miranda and ghost nym players tried. I saw a LOT of people just sit in arcs and eat torpedoes, then the inevitable "OMG, is 2.0 nothing but ordinance!" disccussion play out afterwards.


Of course there are nuggets of info to glean from Coruscant - they just have almost nothing to do with which country players are from (and frankly, almost no tournament results really talk to this aspect, and it's probably the least boring question to even investigate, other than mild curiosity). It borders far closer to "huh... neat" than "wow! How interesting!", and it seems, again, that that is what instead devolved here.