Episode 111: We Promote Trevor

This week we have Shey and special guest from the Court Games podcast Trevor/Kakita Onimaru! We talk about the spoilers from the live stream our feeling on the first pack on the cycle and Rokucon.

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On 6/21/2019 at 4:27 PM, Bazleebub said:

So you're saying the top qualifying player being paired against bottom qualifying player is, over 50% of the time, a bad thing for the top qualifying player.

I am saying that in my opinion seating isn't enough of a reward for going undefeated. I personally would prefere tripple elimination, but I understand that time constraints and the psychological component of being eliminated prevent OP from doing something like that. Giving undefeated players a bye is a nice middle ground.

Statistically it would probably be slightly more often better than worse.

Episode 112: Spyglass Has Fallen

This week its Shey and Dan tackling the new RL and spoilers

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Episode 114: Lets Read the Cards! Bonds of Blood!

This week we have Shey, Aneil, Fro and Travis and we are reviewing pack two of the inheritance cycle Bonds of Blood.

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The Kakita / Mirumoto quote is one of the most famous ones from the old game and I'm glad it finally made it in.

As for the card it's on...……….I think it is worth noting that it can give you covert without taking up one of your 10 conflict character slots when splashing Dragon. The question will be if I can find enough weapons to make it work.

Also...……..none of us care if you're up against the 2 hour mark. Give us a Fro Roll Rant!!!!!!

Great job as always, gentlemen.

Episode 115: Lets Talk About That LVO Survey

This week it is Shey joined by Special guests Trevor and Tsar talking about the endeavor to get a Grand Championship at the LVO.

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Episode 116: So They Dropped the Floor Rules After The Episode Was Recorded

This week Shey and Dan talk about Gencon hype! No Floor rules hot takes this episode as in typical Jade Throne fashion they released the day after we recorded.

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Episode 117: Fastest Crab Pack Hot Takes In The West

This week we have Shey, Dan, and Travis talking floor rules and reading you some fresh Crab cards.

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Episode 118: Put A Bird On It!

This week it is Shey, Dan and Fro talking Gencon, the meta and NOVA

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47 minutes ago, The Jade Throne Podcast said:

Episode 118: Put A Bird On It!

-1 for missing an opportunity to use "Crack and egg on it, KAKA!" gif from the Teen Titans Go! movie

but I give a +2 for getting out the episode so soon after gen con

so net +1

In my defense I saw the opportunity for a Portlandia reference and could not help myself lol.

41 minutes ago, The Jade Throne Podcast said:

In my defense I saw the opportunity for a Portlandia reference and could not help myself lol.

Duh. Totally missed that. I retract my previous -1 and give you guys the full +2 for this episode.

I'm at that stage in life where what my children watch pretty much dictates my entire audio/video experience. I have to find as many common ground shows as possible. Unfortunately, they are not quite ready for Portlandia, so I've been out of the loop for a good 5 years or so.

Episode 119: We Will Be Your Villain

This week we have Shey, Aneil, Dan, Fro and Travis to have some real talk about setting expectations when it comes to interactions with a game company and roles. This one gets spicy.

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I've always considered the role picking as a way to soft cycle the card pool. In a slowly evolving meta it can help keep the game from feeling stale, which is an issue other long lived LCGs have fallen into many times. I think it was a mistake to add role locked cards behind a faction as well. They probably all should have been neutrals to make them easier to use. It makes players feel bad when their faction gets a card they can't use potentially ever if the role isn't picked. Also they probably shouldn't be such bomb cards though I guess they wanted to make the roles something you built your deck around to encourage as much shake up as possible.

In any event if all role locking is doing is inspiring negative discussion then it should probably go. It's clearly not accomplishing it's intended goal. Also it hardly acts as a soft cycle the way it's implemented today. So my upside is not being realized.

I agree that story prizes always feel better than mechanical choices especially something like a role choice that is fleeting. Your idea of having a card designed and letting the player pick what character it will be (sort of like what they did with the sword card or the Unicorn character) or as they've done before giving the player a chance to shine a spotlight on a character in the story (like the Kaezin choice) are both great examples of well thought out prizes. They don't break the story and they give you something substantial to latch onto that can endure.

While I also believe that the concept of role locking is good and provides a way to "soft cycle" the game without printing a bunch of new cards, the execution to this point has only served to create friction within the playerbase.

I believe that many of the people who "support" role locking would not pick to have it if it were a choice, rather they see the validity in the benefits it could bring to the design space and are arguing for the merit of the idea instead of what has actually come about because of role locking.

Maybe I'm projecting a bit because I am one of these people. At this point I think unlocking the roles is better for the overall health of the game. Even though I really like the concept of role locking, its become more of a problem than was intended so I would like to see the roles unlocked.

I think they should unlock all the roles......and now for my crazy idea to keep role selection In the game somehow.....

In addition to unlocking the elemental roles, they should "roll back" (see what I did there) the role selection to world's only. Instead allow the top of each clan to choose a "support of" role as their prize. This would be just a pure bonus selection that does not prevent any clan from playing other roles, even the other" support of" roles. It would just be pure bonus. Maybe to direct story and draw the chosen clan closer as an ally. It could also be used to further tensions between the clans. And/Or maybe do something crazy like allow players to include one dynasty card from the clan of the chosen "support of" clan in their deck (kind of like a reserve list reward) only when running that "support of role." FFG could limit it to characters or holdings or allow either to be picked. Just kind of spitballinon this idea here.

Short version:

Sign me up for team #freetheroles. At this point in time I feel it's better for the game than role locking.

I also agree that we are probably seeing the effect of the monthly pack release format on the tournaments. This was a big thing in Netrunner and Conquest especially from my experience. These cycles are designed as a whole and then broken up into packs after the fact. I know I've heard that several times in the past from the developers in interviews. So some of these cards might make more sense as we get closer to completing the cycle. It was a strength of the dump everything at once 6 in 6 format that you never were stuck in this in between meta. Though the actual implementation of 6 in 6 was annoying since those 6 weeks were a tornado of uncertainty. Honestly I kinda want them to just go with all "Children" style big boxes for release from now on after this cycle and the clan packs finish. If they could keep those big boxes on a schedule and you had like three of four months for the dust to settle before the next big box got dumped I think that would be a more healthy system for a competitive LCG. If they could keep engagement up on their site with weekly or bi-weekly fictions and regular high profile tournaments in the interim (so there's always a sense that FFG is "touching" L5R), then I think we would have a more ideal system for the format.

On 8/16/2019 at 3:01 PM, phillos said:

Honestly I kinda want them to just go with all "Children" style big boxes for release from now on after this cycle and the clan packs finish.

That sounds really nice.

In addition to the benefits for players, it might also simplify things for FFG.

1 hour ago, Bazleebub said:

That sounds really nice.

In addition to the benefits for players, it might also simplify things for FFG.

Nah, you need many constant smaller release to keep people entertained these days. It is 2019, one week without news and everybody start to claim the game is dead.

As with almost all corners of the internet, you just need to learn what (or who) to filter out. The majority of L5R players are wonderful people. Don't let the occasional idiot convince you otherwise.

1 hour ago, Avatar111 said:

Nah, you need many constant smaller release to keep people entertained these days. It is 2019, one week without news and everybody start to claim the game is dead.

People will always proclaim the game dead. Years of playing LOTR LCG has taught me that.

The monthly releases is just one potential solution to the real issue which is getting the game to feel stable and consistent. If they told us a big box was coming out every 4 months and they did come out more or less on the same target date then we would have set expectation. Right now we don't have any real set expectations. Mostly because they tried a thing (6 in 6 and clan packs) and it wasn't working. So it feels like the game is still in flux while they figure it out. Right now we are back to monthly LCG packs like the traditional model. We've not lived it long enough to see how popular it will be for L5R, but we are seeing some of the downsides to that model right now, which were previously avoided in this game.

2 minutes ago, phillos said:

People will always proclaim the game dead. Years of playing LOTR LCG has taught me that.

Yup.
But I still think they need to put out smaller bits of content regularly. Same as the videogame industry, it is all about player engagement and retention; especially when you have a LCG model, you need to keep players anticipating (and buying) your next pack.
By doing big expensions, you risk people dropping out more easily.

I work in videogames and I see a lot of similitude between the modern business models of both.
Without player engagement, you fall out of trend and will have a hard time picking up new players. Remember, this is FFG/Asmodee, not some indie RPG devs from the 80s. There is a lot of money involved and they need to make sure the player count is kept track of. They probably have Data for how packs sell (and more constant data since there is more releases) and Data fo how many downloads and clicks on whatever stuff they have (stories etc).

I almost can guarantee you their big battle is Player Retention, and that everything they will do ties in to that.
Player Acquisition is also a big deal, but much harder to tackle. The recent addition of the RPG is something that could have helped acquisition a bit, otherwise they will need to release a new "core" or think of a new business model (maybe offer "starter clan deck" for very cheap).

we will see! but do not expect to see no more dynasty packs and only expensions. (I even have some doubt the expansion might not have been the success they expected in term of new player acquisiton and that the dynasty pack/month model will be the strongest option by far)

I agree, I have to imagine the words "player retention" are written on a white board somewhere in the LCG office area. It's gotta be a constant topic of conversation.

The problem with LCGs and new players is always financial barrier of entry first in my experience. Every competitive LCG eventually whittles down because you naturally will lose some players over time and it's a hard sell to get someone new in after a couple cycles due to the sheer weight of product they need to buy to feel competitive. Why play this mature LCG when you can just jump on to the new game FFG is launching and get in on the ground floor of the competitive scene and financial obligation? They kinda have a system set up to defeat sustainability it feels. Of course perception that the game is healthy and supported is also a big concern, but I think that financial barrier continues to be the big issue and something FFG wrestles with currently. Video games mostly seem to avoid this issue. Imagine a popular multiplayer only game with a monthly fee like World Of Warcraft that charges a new player for each month they didn't play the game since launch. How popular would that game be in reality?

Once they figure out that barrier problem (Keyforge was clearly an attempt as was the AGOT starter decks and even Marvel Champions), then they need to fix the issue of consistency and stability, which is really the root of the issue you are getting at Avatar. Monthly releases is one way to give the players this feeling of consistency and stability, but it doesn't need to be the only way (and player engagement itself doesn't need to come only from player card infusions). There were issues in the traditional LCG model that L5R was attempting to address. We've been the experimental LCG since our inceptions and this experimentation has given L5R players a heighten feeling of insecurity because the game doesn't feel stable. If they could announce a schedule and keep to it I think that would be just as effective. People wouldn't feel anxious because they'll know when to expect the next release. The problem is it seems FFG can't seem to achieve this goal. I'm guessing because of the reality of over seas printing and shipping concerns. So unfortunately even the monthly release schedule traditional to LCGs is a tenuous thing.

24 minutes ago, phillos said:

I have to imagine the words "player retention" are written on a white board somewhere

I suspect it's more likely that says 'Getting new players'.

There obviously are a number of ways FFG can go to make the game more accessible. The new Crane Winter Court deck is a great start, if we can recommend 1 single pack to go with it to make it legal then we're golden.

Personally, I think there's a great opportunity to look again at the Terminal Directive model. For those unaware, Terminal Directive was a Netrunner LCG box which had a story that two players could play through. I believe it was quite successful as a product, players were interested in it, but had a critical reception due to a number of issues around the design. It suffered in my opinion, as it tried to hard to be a legacy game with stickers and everything when really it didn't need any of that.

If L5R design looked again at that model, a single box product where two players get to play through a story campaign, it would be a big success. As a model for new players, this kind of box + a core set makes for a great board game style product that is perfect for the 'kitchen table' style play that is the primary source of revenue for FFG games. Similar to Arkham, when you're ready you can buy the next big story box and play through that at your own pace. Alternatively, it serves as a stepping point into the competitive scene where you take those decks out of the campaign box limited environment and into tournaments.

That's pretty much my dream L5R product

I really wish this game would do something like Terminal Directive. I don't know how well that sold for Netrunner, but L5R is such a story rich game. It seems like a perfect fit. Also Terminal Directive was fun. I could probably convince some lapsed players to play something like that with me which would be nice. Also it supports kitchen table play, which is often overlooked in competitive LCGs.

player acquisition is a problem indeed.

and yeah, the current Core Box of L5R is not a good thing after the initial wave of fan bought it 3 times each...

but since there is 7 clans, I doubt they can make a bigger corebox that includes 3 copies of each cards...

indeed a rough decision will eventually need to be made because the more it goes, the more it will be impossible to buy in for a popular acceptable price.

But the way the game is designed, with neutral cards, and a clan "dip", it makes it very hard to design a proper model for acquisition.