if it was legal, then a certain character theyre getting would be redundant and pointless.

Just now, Vineheart01 said:

if it was legal, then a certain character theyre getting would be redundant and pointless.

Arguably not, since he just straight up returns four reanimates, but I agree with you otherwise.

3 minutes ago, Vineheart01 said:

if it was legal, then a certain character theyre getting would be redundant and pointless.

Well, he adds trays to an infantry unit, so he can add Reanimate Archers trays even though Reanimate Archers do not have the Regenerate ability, so it wouldn't be pointless at all.

55 minutes ago, Vineheart01 said:

if it was legal, then a certain character theyre getting would be redundant and pointless.

He adds a full tray, figures included.

Regardless, both abilities are adding models. If they both added trays, it would be ludicrously broken to have 2 methods of doing it.

You have to be careful with such an ability. See necrons for 40k...they didnt curb it at all and it was easily the most frustrating thing in the game to wipe a Necron Warrior unit down to 1 model and a lucky ass roll brought all except 2-3 of ~15 models back. Speaking in old rules of course as currently its a separate save not a "regeneration"

As it is even without that character, its an ability that if you even get 2 models back in a unit its more than been paid for. Common infantry should not have a game deciding ability, and Regen could have EASILY been that bad.

2 hours ago, rowdyoctopus said:

So I could see "missing trays" count as empty slots, since you know what your unit size was when the game started. I don't think they do, but I could understand if someone argued they were.

Oh COME ON. Now yer just sounding desperate, and grasping at straws.

Even in the demo game hosted by Team Covenant, the Rep CLEARLY states that once trays are moved, they cant regenerate the tray back. The card CLEARLY states you dont put trays back.

Enough with the verbal gymnastics so you can justify cheating and move on.

In the L2P it uses slot as a noun to indicate the circle or oval indentation on the tray in which a figure can be inserted, and defines tray as the base that makes up the formation of the unit. "To slot" is used as a verb to place a figurine into a slot. The 'if possible' is keyed to the next bullet point, to establish priority for Regeneration.

Note rule 92.6, which states that if a tray is empty, it is destroyed. There is no real time between the last figure being removed and the actual removal of the tray. It is listed as a separate step in the combat steps to simplify more than creating a distinct phase to remove empty trays.

I also noticed rule 38.7, where it specifies that empty slots in forward ranks must be filled by moving a unit up. It is possible that a game effect could force you to move a figure from a back rank tray to a tray in the front rank, which causes the back tray to be removed before you can Regen.

I'm specifically thinking of Ankaur Maro, and how his ability causes damage to him, but we haven't seen enough of him to guess. I have a thought though: If Ankaur Maro is in a 2x1 unit reduced to just Ankaur Maro in a tray, and he uses his ability to add a tray to the unit, does his figure get replaced when the damage kills him per 38.7? or does 92.6 trigger first, removing the tray? In the first case, you have a tray with 3 figures, and a tray with 1 figure, and Regenerate helps fill in some gaps. In the second, you have a single tray with 4 figures, and there is nothing to Regenerate.

34 minutes ago, Trafficman said:

Oh COME ON. Now yer just sounding desperate, and grasping at straws.

Even in the demo game hosted by Team Covenant, the Rep CLEARLY states that once trays are moved, they cant regenerate the tray back. The card CLEARLY states you dont put trays back.

Enough with the verbal gymnastics so you can justify cheating and move on.

I know that rep. I also know the process by which those reps learn games, me being one of them. They are handed the rules. Now is it possible in this instance he has more insider knowledge? Maybe if he is a playtester. We don't really get anything from the source strictly as demo team members, though.

You can see me talk about Star Wars Rebellion here: https://youtu.be/ZvuMkg6IEWQ

1 hour ago, Trafficman said:

Oh COME ON. Now yer just sounding desperate, and grasping at straws.

Even in the demo game hosted by Team Covenant, the Rep CLEARLY states that once trays are moved, they cant regenerate the tray back. The card CLEARLY states you dont put trays back.

Enough with the verbal gymnastics so you can justify cheating and move on.

But demos aren't rules, and we're trying to parse the rules to play precisely as the rules state. If this reveals ambiguities, it's good to point those out here on the forums instead of having someone encounter this for the first time during a tournament.

Also, it's pretty clear that @rowdyoctopus is not trying to justify cheating, he's just pointing out how he could see it be misunderstood given the rules as written, so I think your attack on him is rather misplaced. Let's keep our discussion focused on actual rules as written and how we interpret them rather than on the people who are trying to interpret those rules.

I do think that adding a tray back to the unit is not how the ruling was intended. I think once a tray is empty it is immediately removed. But I also wanted to communities perspective. Just like I thought it wasn't the clearest and just wanted to be sure

Looking through the rules reference, bouncing around between the attack section, keyword involving regeneration, indeed the case is pretty solid that once a tray is empty, it is removed at the end of combat for the unit suffering the damage.

Thus it's pretty clear that no matter if the runes support the addition of more reanimates, if you don't have empty slots in a tray associated with the unit, you're getting nothing back.

I'd say stick a fork in this thread, it's done.

The wording is that when the tray is empty, it is removed immediately, not at the end of combat. As I said, it is possible to empty a tray by other means, like Ankaur's ability, outside of normal combat. Or if you charge an enemy and hit dangerous terrain and kill all the figures in a tray, you would have to remove the tray before the combat with any units you are in contact with. This could have a big impact on things like Shield Wall or threat before a combat takes place.

Also, regen only talks about filling as many empty slots as currently exist. No tray = no slots to fill, so you can't add a tray to add slots that don't exist. Otherwise people would buy a 3x3 tray reanimate and start bulking up to 4x3 immediately to add the fourth tray in the first rank! It doesn't make any sense to add trays back.