With wave 7 still I development...chances of articles are close to nil, or?
Article Predictions. Mostly General Discussion. But there's definately some Predictions scattered throughout.
3 minutes ago, Green Knight said:With wave 7 still I development...chances of articles are close to nil, or?
We could get an update to the FAQ. Other than that nothing I’m afraid.
37 minutes ago, Thrindal said:We could get an update to the FAQ. Other than that nothing I’m afraid.
Hasn't it just been three months or so since the last faq?
1 minute ago, Green Knight said:Hasn't it just been three months or so since the last faq?
4. We're still 2 months out. 
1 hour ago, Drasnighta said:The Assembly for Legion is similar to Runewars, we've been told. Push-Fit for the most part. They are not going to be GW-style Sprue Monstrosities.
Which means, Ironically... Assembling an AT-ST for Legion is probably going to be about as involved as assembling the Ship Base, Token, Shield Dials, Fin and Ship Model of an ISD for Armada.
I don't have any Runewars, however, I think you are downplaying it a bit.
From what I've seen with some quick research, runewars doesn't REQUIRE glue, but it's heavily recommended. Some pieces simply won't stay together without glue from what I've read. While there are no sprues (which I didn't mention), I've seen several posts about people needing to sand and do minor finish work on some of the sculpts. My own experience with other FFG titles (IA and rebellion for instance) has shown this to be true too, and it has also shown me that even their 'easy' click together stuff rarely fits well, needs special tricks for assembly and reforming is needed for an even half way decent look.
All of that takes time, effort, and even research in some cases. And all of it needs to be accomplished before an extensive painting operation can begin.
None of my armada ships have needed any adjustment. No sanding, no painting, nothing. I do have to lightly push out a couple pieces of cardboard and lightly push in a plastic 'pin' to hold things together. But this entire process takes all of 2 minutes and you are ready to play. I need no expensive paints or special brushes. I have no need of sanding material or tools. No requirement for glue or other modeling material.
For $50 I get a fully painted/assembled ISD with no flaws that takes 2 minutes to put it's support pieces together to field and play (even more paint and plastic in the new version). Or a Legion ATST that will likely need to be warped and forced to connect, glued to secure, and then you can start thinking about the paint....for the same price.
1 minute ago, kmanweiss said:I don't have any Runewars, however, I think you are downplaying it a bit.
From what I've seen with some quick research, runewars doesn't REQUIRE glue, but it's heavily recommended. Some pieces simply won't stay together without glue from what I've read. While there are no sprues (which I didn't mention), I've seen several posts about people needing to sand and do minor finish work on some of the sculpts. My own experience with other FFG titles (IA and rebellion for instance) has shown this to be true too, and it has also shown me that even their 'easy' click together stuff rarely fits well, needs special tricks for assembly and reforming is needed for an even half way decent look.
All of that takes time, effort, and even research in some cases. And all of it needs to be accomplished before an extensive painting operation can begin.
None of my armada ships have needed any adjustment. No sanding, no painting, nothing. I do have to lightly push out a couple pieces of cardboard and lightly push in a plastic 'pin' to hold things together. But this entire process takes all of 2 minutes and you are ready to play. I need no expensive paints or special brushes. I have no need of sanding material or tools. No requirement for glue or other modeling material.
For $50 I get a fully painted/assembled ISD with no flaws that takes 2 minutes to put it's support pieces together to field and play (even more paint and plastic in the new version). Or a Legion ATST that will likely need to be warped and forced to connect, glued to secure, and then you can start thinking about the paint....for the same price.
They're trying to appeal to two different audiences though. There is a large segment of the tabletop gaming population that really like the hobby aspect of building, painting, and truly making a model uniquely yours. I love the hobby aspect of building a painting miniatures but, like yourself, I have entered a stage of my life (married with young kids) that I no longer have the time to devote to the hobby aspect. Which I find convenient with Armada, even if every time I look at them I shake my head as I mumble that I could do a better job.
Now here is my complaint. If FFG wanted to appeal to consumers that are interested in the hobby aspect you have to go all in on this. I can't stand how ugly and crude the display models are that FFG are using to market Legion and Rune Wars! Maybe its just me but if you want to compete with the big dogs like WH, 40k, Warlord, Infinity etc, you have to step up your game and produce a product that can compete. Star Wars themed will only carry you so far.
Maybe I'm just spoiled coming from Infinity and other games where the miniature themselves are small works of art that are truly jaw dropping with how detailed and beautifully painted they are and then I come over to FFG and the pictures marketing Ruin Wars has models that were painted useing the "dip" method! Unbelievable to me that that is what FFG whats the consumer to see as their end product.
I think they are making a calculated misstep by wanting to appeal to a new audience with out alienating their current consumer and may end up just alienating both in the process. I mean if I'm going to paint a model it better be gorgeously sculpted and Legion and Ruinwars are a step above little green and tan army men, yet FFG expects top dollar like the current competitors in the space.
FFG can't really compete with GW in models because they are a model company. The game is secondary to them while it is the flip side for FFG. They are primarily a game company. The resources necessary to compete with GW is not worth it. Besides legion is limited with the Star Wars tag. Runewars has some nice models though especially the siege units.
https://www.fantasyflightgames.com/en/news/2017/10/27/x-wing-101-learning-to-fly/
Seals the deal in my opinion for today.
They usually don't usurp X-Wing Article days with Armada do they?
1 hour ago, TallGiraffe said:
FFG can't really compete with GW in models because they are a model company. The game is secondary to them while it is the flip side for FFG. They are primarily a game company. The resources necessary to compete with GW is not worth it. Besides legion is limited with the Star Wars tag. Runewars has some nice models though especially the siege units.
I don't buy this argument. There are plenty of small even 1 man shops thats produce incredibly beautiful miniatures for their games. Hit up kick starter to see games that have awesome models. They are marketing legion and runewars as a tabletop game with the intent of taking market share from the afore mentions competitors but doing so with subpar models.
Maybe the game is absolutely amazing... I'll probably never know because I'm not going to pay top dollar for subpar models.
FFG coming out with games that require assembly and painting is indicative that they want in on the hobby type table top market.
1 hour ago, CaribbeanNinja said:https://www.fantasyflightgames.com/en/news/2017/10/27/x-wing-101-learning-to-fly/
Seals the deal in my opinion for today.
They usually don't usurp X-Wing Article days with Armada do they?
When was the last time Armada usurped anything?
https://www.fantasyflightgames.com/en/news/2017/10/27/your-first-steps/
At this point I honestly can't tell if FFG is pushing Destiny so hard because it's at risk of failing or if it's wildly successful. Interest around here is nowhere near what it was at release, but it still seems like it's doing fine.
Still, we've had a lot of Destiny articles and zero Armada articles lately.
3 hours ago, PartyPotato said:
They're trying to appeal to two different audiences though. There is a large segment of the tabletop gaming population that really like the hobby aspect of building, painting, and truly making a model uniquely yours. I love the hobby aspect of building a painting miniatures but, like yourself, I have entered a stage of my life (married with young kids) that I no longer have the time to devote to the hobby aspect. Which I find convenient with Armada, even if every time I look at them I shake my head as I mumble that I could do a better job.
Now here is my complaint. If FFG wanted to appeal to consumers that are interested in the hobby aspect you have to go all in on this. I can't stand how ugly and crude the display models are that FFG are using to market Legion and Rune Wars! Maybe its just me but if you want to compete with the big dogs like WH, 40k, Warlord, Infinity etc, you have to step up your game and produce a product that can compete. Star Wars themed will only carry you so far.
Maybe I'm just spoiled coming from Infinity and other games where the miniature themselves are small works of art that are truly jaw dropping with how detailed and beautifully painted they are and then I come over to FFG and the pictures marketing Ruin Wars has models that were painted useing the "dip" method! Unbelievable to me that that is what FFG whats the consumer to see as their end product.
I think they are making a calculated misstep by wanting to appeal to a new audience with out alienating their current consumer and may end up just alienating both in the process. I mean if I'm going to paint a model it better be gorgeously sculpted and Legion and Ruinwars are a step above little green and tan army men, yet FFG expects top dollar like the current competitors in the space.
Not even close to top dollar. Go look at 40k prices. Not to mention you then need to buy all the books..... It's really no contest when it comes to price.
Edited by Tirion9 hours ago, Mikael Hasselstein said:That's very true, however I wonder where the market is. Btw. Imperial Assault's miniatures are also unpainted, so I think that counts as a sci-fi game that caters to the painters.
For my part, I like painting miniatures, and back in the day when I did that, I got rather good at it. At the same time, painting for an army (I played Warhammer Fantasy) became a big chore in order to field a wholly painted army. For me, that leeched the fun out of it a bit.
So, here's the thing: for a markup, they could sell pre-painted miniatures. They clearly can engage the infrastructure in China to do that painting. If they double the marginal cost for that markup (or whatever factor they think the market will bear), then they could offer their customers the choice. Now, I doubt that they will do this, and it would be interesting to learn the reasons why. It might just be a factor of reducing the economies of scale they achieve, but I don't know.
Ia is a board game.... Legion is a true minis game. My guess would be they are catering to the millions (unofficial number) 40k fans that are leaving that game.
12 minutes ago, Tirion said:Not even close to top dollar. Go look at 40k prices. Not to mention you then need to buy all the books..... It's really no contest when it comes to price.
40k is undoubtably a bigger game and requires more models and therefore is more expensive on an absolute scale. But that wasn't my argument. I was contending the FFG is wanting top dollar for its box sets.
Look at it in a more granular level with models that would be considered "comparable". I haven't seen a side by side of these two so maybe there is some varaiance on size but i pretty sure they'll be pretty close.
A single AT-ST is $50
A Single 40k Sentinel is $30
I wouldn't be surprised if the most expensive aspect of the box sets is the license to use "Star Wars" even if thats 20% of the gross MSRP you're still paying $10 more for the ATST, why? For a handful of cards? At least the sentinel comes with modularity to create dynamic posses.
The vehicles actually look semi decent. Once you start looking at the storm/rebel troopers... they're more comparable with the metal 40k Cadian shock troopers from the 1990's on overall quality and aesthetic.
Basically theres nothing wrong with demanding top dollar for a product. But if FFG wants to command that level of premium then I expect an incredible product and so far I've been unimpressed.
I also want to add that I truly HATE Games-Workshop as a company and really want FFG to be successful but I'm won't simply buy a product because "omg its Star Wars"
1 minute ago, PartyPotato said:40k is undoubtably a bigger game and requires more models and therefore is more expensive on an absolute scale. But that wasn't my argument. I was contending the FFG is wanting top dollar for its box sets.
Look at it in a more granular level with models that would be considered "comparable". I haven't seen a side by side of these two so maybe there is some varaiance on size but i pretty sure they'll be pretty close.
A single AT-ST is $50
A Single 40k Sentinel is $30
I wouldn't be surprised if the most expensive aspect of the box sets is the license to use "Star Wars" even if thats 20% of the gross MSRP you're still paying $10 more for the ATST, why? For a handful of cards? At least the sentinel comes with modularity to create dynamic posses.
The vehicles actually look semi decent. Once you start looking at the storm/rebel troopers... they're more comparable with the metal 40k Cadian shock troopers from the 1990's on overall quality and aesthetic.
Basically theres nothing wrong with demanding top dollar for a product. But if FFG wants to command that level of premium then I expect an incredible product and so far I've been unimpressed.
I also want to add that I truly HATE Games-Workshop as a company and really want FFG to be successful but I'm won't simply buy a product because "omg its Star Wars"
What about the rules required to play that sentinel?
3 minutes ago, Tirion said:What about the rules required to play that sentinel?
Digital version of the core rules are FREE
https://www.games-workshop.com/en-US/Battle-Primer-2017-ENG
I'm not saying the 40k is cheap in comparison... I'm saying that FFG wants to charge similar prices on a product vs product level. Which again is fine, but I better get something better than what FFG is showing me.
2 minutes ago, PartyPotato said:Digital version of the core rules are FREE
https://www.games-workshop.com/en-US/Battle-Primer-2017-ENG
I'm not saying the 40k is cheap in comparison... I'm saying that FFG wants to charge similar prices on a product vs product level. Which again is fine, but I better get something better than what FFG is showing me.
Fair enough. I will admit I had sticker shock with the atst. Everything else I thought was well priced.
43 minutes ago, PartyPotato said:A single AT-ST is $50
A Single 40k Sentinel is $30
The Sentinel is considerably smaller than the Legion AT-ST, based on the Legion case photo. Sentinels are only about two and half guardsman high.
Sentinels are also only around 60 points after upgrades, out of a 1500-2000 point list. AT-STs are 195 points before upgrades, out of a 1000 point list.
24 minutes ago, svelok said:Sentinels are also only around 60 points after upgrades, out of a 1500-2000 point list. AT-STs are 195 points before upgrades, out of a 1000 point list.
This is the key point. You're likely only going to have one in an army. It's an ISD. You can run three. But 1 is probably optimal.
30 minutes ago, draco193 said:You can run three. But 1 is probably optimal.
In fact, you're limited to two.
9 hours ago, svelok said:The Sentinel is considerably smaller than the Legion AT-ST, based on the Legion case photo. Sentinels are only about two and half guardsman high.
Sentinels are also only around 60 points after upgrades, out of a 1500-2000 point list. AT-STs are 195 points before upgrades, out of a 1000 point list.
800 is the standard limit
In Development (we are here)
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At the Printer
The product is at the manufacturer. The duration of this process can vary greatly depending on the characteristics of the product, from a few months for a book to many months in the case of board games, which often need to coordinate multiple companies' components such as cards, dice, miniatures, and game boards.
On the Boat
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Shipping Now (we WANT to be here)
The product is being shipped from the FFG warehouse in Minnesota to stores and distributors. This process takes between 7-10 days for the US, or a few days longer in Canada.
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So how many more weeks of this?
Wave 7 has been in development for ages. At the printer usually takes a while - months? - for capital ships. Have they really not even begun producing the minis? The slow boat is maybe six weeks. Then shipping doesn't take that long after that.
At this pace wave 7 won't be on the boat before 2018.
Is that the case? What's happened THIS time?
1 hour ago, Green Knight said:
At this pace wave 7 won't be on the boat before 2018.
Is that the case? What's happened THIS time?
I can only assume that they just haven't updated the page, and we may be nearing On the Boat.
Other than that, maybe a strike? Legion taking up all the printers? The boat sank? An unannounced product (the SSD and SWM28) still not ready for a 'Something Big' release?
Didnt the wave 2 boat blow up or sink or something? Yeah the wave 2 wait was crushing. I think it hurt the game a lot. My feeling is a lot of people that bought in at the core set were lost before the good stuff in wave 2 finally arrived.
Historically, doesn't the upcoming page change retrospectively?
But yes I begin to sadden.
Legion/holiday rush seems like the simplest and most plausible explanation. Maybe demand for Legion was higher than expected, or there was an issue and they had to reprint a bunch of stuff, or it took them longer to get Legion printing than expected which pushed stuff back...
Did X-Wing's TLJ wave get pushed forward to Q4, or did the other wave get pushed back to 2018? The article didn't actually specify.
5 hours ago, Tirion said:800 is the standard limit
thanks for keeping me people