50 minutes ago, Alpha Xg1 said:

Muawahahaha~!!!

"Rise above all others!" We are the Emperor's Inner Circle!

Perhaps your time as a Moff has...blindsided you from your true calling.

"And to all...corners of the benevolent Emperor's galaxy...the Five Winged Angels did fly to spread the word and enlighten all, noble and alien-folk alike."

Well, now that I can see the .gif, I greatly approve of His Imperial Highness' glorious likeness.

My time as Moff has been quite different from when I was spreading the Empire's good news on the HoloNet. Managing the Corellian sector has been quite a challenge. The Rebels seem to not be able to keep their appointments with Imperial Judgement. Of course, I have also had many political functions to go to as well. People don't seem to understand the burdens of Imperial administration...

Was there a declared change to New Order doctrine that I was unaware of? Also, when were "alien-folk" included in the franchise? Oh... I think I understand what sort of "enlightenment" you're talking about. The "light-em'-up" kind of enlightenment. Of that I can approve. Still, what about all the pilots who will not be able to die for the Emperor's glory while waiting for these five-winged resource sinks to come off the production line?

Have you no heart?

1 hour ago, Alpha Xg1 said:

Hey Dras? Just be grateful that you're not in Oz right now...

You don't wanna know the true "single most evil" thing that the NBN has become down here...

You don't frighten me.

I am well aware of it.

When I was living in Australia, the only Internet I had was dial up, and even then, I could only use it when the Budgies weren't chewing on the Phone Line.

and I made do.

The NBN is a godsend in comparison to that.

Some days id prefer dial up to the dead nothing we get from nbn 'rollout' ......

Ok, so both Chimaera and Profundity are still actually "In development".

Then it has to go to the Printer, no?

And then the (very) slow boat from China?

Then shipping.

And finally to me.

Is it at all realistic we'll see this in Q4 2017?

14 minutes ago, Green Knight said:

Ok, so both Chimaera and Profundity are still actually "In development".

Then it has to go to the Printer, no?

And then the (very) slow boat from China?

Then shipping.

And finally to me.

Is it at all realistic we'll see this in Q4 2017?

At this point I think the chances are low. But like I have said before, it isn't always in FFG's best interest to be honest on that page.

I would say the biggest limiting factor now is all the effort FFG is putting into Legion. If they are using the same printers (why wouldn't they?) then I have to assume our chances of seeing Wave 7 in Q4 are shrinking by the day.

8 minutes ago, Thrindal said:

I would say the biggest limiting factor now is all the effort FFG is putting into Legion. If they are using the same printers (why wouldn't they?) then I have to assume our chances of seeing Wave 7 in Q4 are shrinking by the day.

You're probably right but I hate hearing it. I'm pretty hyped about Legion but d*** it I don't want it delaying my Armada stuff.

13 hours ago, Eggzavier said:

as a lawyer

You're a lawyer? No wonder it's so **** hard to argue with you over the correct way to read the rules

1 minute ago, Megatronrex said:

You're probably right but I hate hearing it. I'm pretty hyped about Legion but d*** it I don't want it delaying my Armada stuff.

My hope is the LEGION Core set gets printed first, then they squeeze in Armada, then they print the Wave 1 Legion Stuff. Legion Wave 1 does list as Q1 2018.

The Legion Core Set at announcement was going to be Q1 2018.

.. Well, for a single day, Alex Davey said it was going to try to make Christmas, but then the next day (at GenCon) Q1 was the order.

... Whereas the announcement afterwards of Wave 7 stated Q4 2017...

So who knows.

Legion is alreayd being printed, they've admitted to that on the page.

Its just a matter of wether Armada was, and it wasn't updated.

I'm pumped for Legion, but I must admit:

-I'm likely to pay the full price at the FLGS for the core. I hope that by buying in, I can drum up players at the store. So far, the owner who is down on FFG's practices, seemed to love the demo he got at a trade convention several weeks ago. But is convinced FFG will continue to be unable to market around releases like GW and MTG do.

-If players do buy in and it's supported, I'll probably hunt for sales online. I can't do full price for this stuff all the time, especially for a $50 AT-ST.

-If I go whole hog into Legion, it's super likely I'll skip buying Armada until I have money to burn (think income tax refund time). Again $50 ISD and the minimal player base. Why spend money for this stuff to collect dust?

Honestly I'm more excited to paint the stuff, and maybe get into basing. Also painting people is different than machines. I'll need to learn how to make them weathered.

I'm feeling like tomorrow's the day.

8 minutes ago, svelok said:

I'm feeling like tomorrow's the day.

It is about time we get this thread back on track!

Okay @Drasnightalet's say we got real lucky and Wave Heaven moved to "On da boat" tomorrow. (Look I know it won't but humor me.)

When would we expect them?

6 hours ago, Undeadguy said:

You're a lawyer? No wonder it's so **** hard to argue with you over the correct way to read the rules

Guilty as charged.

I do Intellectual Property litigation in Chicago.

So just know that some other poor people get it a million times worse

5 minutes ago, CaribbeanNinja said:

It is about time we get this thread back on track!

Okay @Drasnightalet's say we got real lucky and Wave Heaven moved to "On da boat" tomorrow. (Look I know it won't but humor me.)

When would we expect them?

6-8 weeks is target for that time.

8 weeks would be an approx Christmas Day release.

21 hours ago, ninclouse2000 said:

Legion seems like it is overpriced sadly. $50 for an unpainted AT ST seems way way too much. A painted imperial star destroyer costs the same! I was hopeful that legion would be cheaper than armada and X wing since they aren’t painting Legion but i appear to be wrong. Not quite as excited for legion now. At least I have a few months to consider it.

If you look at Imperial Assault, which is slightly smaller, maybe 32mm vs 35mm, their AT-ST is only $20 which is probably closer to what Legion should have priced theirs at, maybe $30-35 but not $50. For $25 you get 7 troopers, which is $3.50 each which is pretty good.

5 minutes ago, Cusm said:

If you look at Imperial Assault, which is slightly smaller, maybe 32mm vs 35mm, their AT-ST is only $20 which is probably closer to what Legion should have priced theirs at, maybe $30-35 but not $50. For $25 you get 7 troopers, which is $3.50 each which is pretty good.

The IA AT-ST is aweful. Probably the worst Star Wars Miniature FFG has produced (In my opinion). The Legion AT-ST is considerably bigger and much more well proportioned. Considering we get a Painted Star Destroyer for $50 though it does seem priced a little high, of course we don't know everything that comes in the box yet.

3 hours ago, Thrindal said:

The IA AT-ST is aweful. Probably the worst Star Wars Miniature FFG has produced (In my opinion). The Legion AT-ST is considerably bigger and much more well proportioned. Considering we get a Painted Star Destroyer for $50 though it does seem priced a little high, of course we don't know everything that comes in the box yet.

literally the thing that kills legion for me(and i do keep considering) is having to paint the ****. I've painted 2 10k 40k armies, several 300+ point WMH armies, as well as a min of 75 points in every WMH faction. I've done all this while HATING painting. I was happy to start X-wing because no painting, when it turned to poop armada was a similar situation, no painting. I'm still happy with armada and the idea of painting all of those new models just turns me right off(before Dras suggests it, no I'm not hiring someone else to paint my stuff :P)

1 hour ago, dominosfleet said:

literally the thing that kills legion for me(and i do keep considering) is having to paint the ****. I've painted 2 10k 40k armies, several 300+ point WMH armies, as well as a min of 75 points in every WMH faction. I've done all this while HATING painting.

While your masochism is admirable, there are people for whom unpainted models are not just preferable, but a requirement.

FFG didn't have a game for them, and now they have two - one fantasy, one sci-fi.

8 hours ago, svelok said:

While your masochism is admirable, there are people for whom unpainted models are not just preferable, but a requirement.

FFG didn't have a game for them, and now they have two - one fantasy, one sci-fi.

That's very true, however I wonder where the market is. Btw. Imperial Assault's miniatures are also unpainted, so I think that counts as a sci-fi game that caters to the painters.

For my part, I like painting miniatures, and back in the day when I did that, I got rather good at it. At the same time, painting for an army (I played Warhammer Fantasy) became a big chore in order to field a wholly painted army. For me, that leeched the fun out of it a bit.

So, here's the thing: for a markup, they could sell pre-painted miniatures. They clearly can engage the infrastructure in China to do that painting. If they double the marginal cost for that markup (or whatever factor they think the market will bear), then they could offer their customers the choice. Now, I doubt that they will do this, and it would be interesting to learn the reasons why. It might just be a factor of reducing the economies of scale they achieve, but I don't know.

29 minutes ago, Mikael Hasselstein said:

So, here's the thing: for a markup, they could sell pre-painted miniatures. They clearly can engage the infrastructure in China to do that painting. If they double the marginal cost for that markup (or whatever factor they think the market will bear), then they could offer their customers the choice. Now, I doubt that they will do this, and it would be interesting to learn the reasons why. It might just be a factor of reducing the economies of scale they achieve, but I don't know.

While FFG clearly has China paint X-Wing and Armada models I wonder if there is added difficulty in doing "organic" or "life-like" miniatures. For Armada and X-Wing it is just a few stencils and there is only one plastic mold version of each. Now we have 7 different molds for a squad, they have way more nooks and crannies to paint into and more colors as well not to mention that I think the stenciling would be way more complex.

Now that only goes for squads and mounted vehicles. The AT-ST and the T-47 could clearly get the FFG paint treatment.

1 hour ago, Mikael Hasselstein said:

That's very true, however I wonder where the market is. Btw. Imperial Assault's miniatures are also unpainted, so I think that counts as a sci-fi game that caters to the painters.

For my part, I like painting miniatures, and back in the day when I did that, I got rather good at it. At the same time, painting for an army (I played Warhammer Fantasy) became a big chore in order to field a wholly painted army. For me, that leeched the fun out of it a bit.

So, here's the thing: for a markup, they could sell pre-painted miniatures. They clearly can engage the infrastructure in China to do that painting. If they double the marginal cost for that markup (or whatever factor they think the market will bear), then they could offer their customers the choice. Now, I doubt that they will do this, and it would be interesting to learn the reasons why. It might just be a factor of reducing the economies of scale they achieve, but I don't know.

Twic as many SKUs, double accounting for those. Additional risk that only one style sells, etc.

Generally, a one-or-the-other choice is purely economical.

1 hour ago, Mikael Hasselstein said:

That's very true, however I wonder where the market is. Btw. Imperial Assault's miniatures are also unpainted, so I think that counts as a sci-fi game that caters to the painters.

IA isn't platoon scale, which is what most of that market expect.

16 hours ago, Thrindal said:

The IA AT-ST is aweful. Probably the worst Star Wars Miniature FFG has produced (In my opinion). The Legion AT-ST is considerably bigger and much more well proportioned. Considering we get a Painted Star Destroyer for $50 though it does seem priced a little high, of course we don't know everything that comes in the box yet.

The paint isn't even all of it though. Keep in mind that the Legion AT-ST will likely need to be sanded, glued, and assembled before you can even get to the painting step (which can be a fairly involved process). All of that is done for Armada ISD. Sure, the painting step on the ships is fairly easy, but there is still a lot of assembly elements in play.

While I'm EXTREMELY interested in Legion, would love to play it, and could even afford to play it, I don't have the time for it. I'm not a 20 something single male with the time to devote to the entire assembling and painting process. I'm not a retired individual whose children have all moved out. I'm a married parent/home owner. After I'm done with kids for the day, I barely have enough time to do anything myself...and I'd rather not spend that time inhaling plastic dust, glue, and paint fumes. I'd rather be playing the game.

X-wing and Armada have me spoiled on the ability to open a box and take a miniature straight to the table without it looking either like crap or completely unfinished. Most of the people I know that were ever involved with 40k spent more time working on the miniatures than they did playing the game. That's not my thing.

And of course...that's all before terrain is considered. Playing on a bare flat table isn't very exciting, so now you need to sink even more time and effort into it. Ugh.

26 minutes ago, kmanweiss said:

The paint isn't even all of it though. Keep in mind that the Legion AT-ST will likely need to be sanded, glued, and assembled before you can even get to the painting step (which can be a fairly involved process). All of that is done for Armada ISD. Sure, the painting step on the ships is fairly easy, but there is still a lot of assembly elements in play.

While I'm EXTREMELY interested in Legion, would love to play it, and could even afford to play it, I don't have the time for it. I'm not a 20 something single male with the time to devote to the entire assembling and painting process. I'm not a retired individual whose children have all moved out. I'm a married parent/home owner. After I'm done with kids for the day, I barely have enough time to do anything myself...and I'd rather not spend that time inhaling plastic dust, glue, and paint fumes. I'd rather be playing the game.

X-wing and Armada have me spoiled on the ability to open a box and take a miniature straight to the table without it looking either like crap or completely unfinished. Most of the people I know that were ever involved with 40k spent more time working on the miniatures than they did playing the game. That's not my thing.

And of course...that's all before terrain is considered. Playing on a bare flat table isn't very exciting, so now you need to sink even more time and effort into it. Ugh.

The Assembly for Legion is similar to Runewars, we've been told. Push-Fit for the most part. They are not going to be GW-style Sprue Monstrosities.

Which means, Ironically... Assembling an AT-ST for Legion is probably going to be about as involved as assembling the Ship Base, Token, Shield Dials, Fin and Ship Model of an ISD for Armada.

Bad news: no article yet

https://www.fantasyflightgames.com/en/news/2017/10/27/the-line-in-the-sand/

Good news: @JJs Juggernauthas a new avatar pose.