I've got to agree that the objectives for Armada have become pretty bland. A bunch of them need re working because the best ones overall are just focused on killing enemy ships. The ones that might favor msu all score too little.

I will say I think Legion will have some similar issues in the future. The best way to score objective points for yourself and deny your opponent is to kill their stuff. So even if you should be trying to hold area A, it's more efficient to kill your enemy and deny them the chance to take area A typically.

So what is the buzz about Legion not being a good "competitive" game about?

Legion is great. If you like Armada I'm betting you'll also like Legion. It has similar levels of strategy, and similar levels of physical presence on the board, which fills the fun factor.

The thing that'll make you NOT want to play legion potentially, would be A) Cost of a new game, B) Assembly of miniatures, and C) Painting. If you are ok with those 3 then I don't expect you'll have any regrets in Legion.

17 minutes ago, draco193 said:

I will say I think Legion will have some similar issues in the future. The best way to score objective points for yourself and deny your opponent is to kill their stuff. So even if you should be trying to hold area A, it's more efficient to kill your enemy and deny them the chance to take area A typically.

As a bit of context, before this post sounds like I'm hyper negative on Armada, I'm not - I fully expect to vastly prefer Armada to Legion. That aside, Legion has an advantage in that its objectives aren't tied to your fleet, which Armada uses to balance first and second player. Legion's objectives are instead to vary listbuilding and gameplay, and they can rotate them in and out over time for organized play (like Runewars) as they learn from the early cards; and in casual play you perpetually can limit your deck to just the best ones. Legion also has the advantage of not counting points killed at all except in the case of a tie. Armada would be a very different game if the points you earn from the objective are the only points whatsoever.

I think it mostly fits, though. Armada couldn't adopt Legion's system without changing the nature of what it is, Armada's system fits the things that makes Armada good. We just need a once-over of the objective cards.

And while maybe a rotating season system for Armada would be nice, maybe it would be too restrictive.

18 minutes ago, CaribbeanNinja said:

So what is the buzz about Legion not being a good "competitive" game about?

I've got absolutely no idea either, and I just read a two page thread about it on the Legion forum.

10 minutes ago, Crabbok said:

Legion is great. If you like Armada I'm betting you'll also like Legion. It has similar levels of strategy, and similar levels of physical presence on the board, which fills the fun factor.

The thing that'll make you NOT want to play legion potentially, would be A) Cost of a new game, B) Assembly of miniatures, and C) Painting. If you are ok with those 3 then I don't expect you'll have any regrets in Legion.

I'm not completely sure I agree with this - they're very different games, I don't think liking one is a necessary guarantee of liking the other. They scratch two very different gameplay itches for me, personally. It's just that both are good games - but it doesn't matter how good the salad is if you don't care for spinach.

2 minutes ago, svelok said:

As a bit of context, before this post sounds like I'm hyper negative on Armada, I'm not - I fully expect to vastly prefer Armada to Legion. That aside, Legion has an advantage in that its objectives aren't tied to your fleet, which Armada uses to balance first and second player. Legion's objectives are instead to vary listbuilding and gameplay, and they can rotate them in and out over time for organized play (like Runewars) as they learn from the early cards; and in casual play you perpetually can limit your deck to just the best ones. Legion also has the advantage of not counting points killed at all except in the case of a tie. Armada would be a very different game if the points you earn from the objective are the only points whatsoever.

I think it mostly fits, though. Armada couldn't adopt Legion's system without changing the nature of what it is, Armada's system fits the things that makes Armada good. We just need a once-over of the objective cards.

And while maybe a rotating season system for Armada would be nice, maybe it would be too restrictive.

It would be very different. And they definitely need an objectives update. I think whomever is in charge of balancing them really messed up with the new ones.

It's interesting to imagine a variant of Armada where you only score for scoring objectives. It probably would be far more open. Some objectives wouldn't make as much sense but could get balanced out.

1 hour ago, Thraug said:

Undeadguy,

I've only played one Legion game but i don't see games being much, if any, shorter than Armada. 2 hours seems about right for a 800 Legion game.

The Legion terrain/cover rules are currently making my head spin. Unless I'm reading something wrong, the rules for cover are contradictory or there's a lot of "just make up your own rules" nonsense that will keep me from playing Legion regularly. The terrain/cover rules seem to be both over-engineered and vague, the worst of both worlds.

The terrain rules are very simple and easy to understand. Not sure why people are confused about that.

The game length will get faster as people learn the rules and play more. My first game of Armada took like 3.5 hours. I can consistently play under 90 minutes with a skilled opponent.

We knew going in that this week was going to be legion heavy and news light but it seems light on Legion news too. It's like FFG took this week off.

2 hours ago, dominosfleet said:

We knew going in that this week was going to be legion heavy and news light but it seems light on Legion news too. It's like FFG took this week off.

Just wait for tomorrow. The onslaught will begin.

2 hours ago, dominosfleet said:

We knew going in that this week was going to be legion heavy and news light but it seems light on Legion news too. It's like FFG took this week off.

They've been putting up videos on their youtube channel instead.

14 hours ago, draco193 said:

Just wait for tomorrow. The onslaught will begin.

Yup there they go. Everything is available now. Man they must be seriously relieved. They have gone 100% all in on it.

When is the FFG adepticon presentation or is there not one?

On 3/19/2018 at 2:38 PM, Crabbok said:

Legion is great. If you like Armada I'm betting you'll also like Legion. It has similar levels of strategy, and similar levels of physical presence on the board, which fills the fun factor.

The thing that'll make you NOT want to play legion potentially, would be A) Cost of a new game, B) Assembly of miniatures, and C) Painting. If you are ok with those 3 then I don't expect you'll have any regrets in Legion.

Add lack of AT-AT-s, and the fact that even at W1, they release a unit never seen in movies...

2 minutes ago, Coldhands said:

Add lack of AT-AT-s, and the fact that even at W1, they release a unit never seen in movies...

If you are tefrrring to the ATRT I’m sure it’s shown in a scene of Ep3. Sonetine around order 66 I feel...

Just now, Drasnighta said:

If you are tefrrring to the ATRT I’m sure it’s shown in a scene of Ep3. Sonetine around order 66 I feel...

Okay, but clones used it, not rebels.

Just now, Coldhands said:

Okay, but clones used it, not rebels.

... and as it is specifically refurbished Clone supplies... Counts ?

7 minutes ago, Coldhands said:

Add lack of AT-AT-s, and the fact that even at W1, they release a unit never seen in movies...

Like the VSD?

24 minutes ago, Viktor Tanek said:

Like the VSD?

Like the VSD. And potentially Legion has less resource to work from, rebellion era ground forces wise... unless they release endless hordes of ewoks... I think they could have gone with full hoth themed rebel army for example. And the other problem is, if the rumour of releases every 1-2 month is true, the entrance cost for new players will be very high, so after a big push, Im affraid the playerbase wont grow steadily.

18 minutes ago, Coldhands said:

Like the VSD. And potentially Legion has less resource to work from, rebellion era ground forces wise... unless they release endless hordes of ewoks... I think they could have gone with full hoth themed rebel army for example. And the other problem is, if the rumour of releases every 1-2 month is true, the entrance cost for new players will be very high, so after a big push, Im affraid the playerbase wont grow steadily.

Well Miniature Gaming is a Luxury item. Sure it does pose a high entrance cost though I don't see the need to purchase everything quite yet.

1 minute ago, TallGiraffe said:

Well Miniature Gaming is a Luxury item. Sure it does pose a high entrance cost though I don't see the need to purchase everything quite yet.

Its FFG. Look at X-wing, Armada. You have to buy everything to be competitive, because of the upgrades. You can go buy the singles, but the best ones cost almost as much as the expansion it comes with :S

7 minutes ago, Coldhands said:

Its FFG. Look at X-wing, Armada. You have to buy everything to be competitive, because of the upgrades. You can go buy the singles, but the best ones cost almost as much as the expansion it comes with :S

It seems like the second wave expansions have the same as the w1 expansions barring the commanders.

1 hour ago, Coldhands said:

Its FFG. Look at X-wing, Armada. You have to buy everything to be competitive, because of the upgrades. You can go buy the singles, but the best ones cost almost as much as the expansion it comes with :S

Legion's not structured the same way. So far, there's been one upgrade or fewer per box that's even useable by any other unit.

31 minutes ago, svelok said:

Legion's not structured the same way. So far, there's been one upgrade or fewer per box that's even useable by any other unit.

Trust me, they want to make money, and its achieved by selling their product. And whats the best way to make people buy more? Trust me, that one upgrade will be vital for another unit...

6 minutes ago, Coldhands said:

Trust me, they want to make money, and its achieved by selling their product. And whats the best way to make people buy more? Trust me, that one upgrade will be vital for another unit...

Another unit maybe, but since with Runewars - not cross factional

1 minute ago, Drasnighta said:

Another unit maybe, but since with Runewars - not cross factional

Is that game still running?

Just now, Coldhands said:

Is that game still running?

Yes, actually. They just got their latest wave to the printer.

So technically more running than Armada ?